Why aren't annulments public?

[Anesis]

If you were going to attend a wedding in a Catholic church, there would be no reason for you to know whether there had been a previous “marriage” with either the bride or groom because that is all taken care of during the marriage prep process and the couple must be determined “free to marry” before they would even be able to set a date. A decree of nullity in the Catholic Church means that any previous relationship, even one that was legally recognized by a government agency, was never valid in the eyes of the Church because of a defect that made it impossible for one or both parties to enter into a sacramental marriage. This is determined by two tribunals in two different diocese after careful examination of everything that lead up to the day of the marriage and the marriage itself.

As for asking someone on a date, why not just ask them if they’ve ever been married before? Even if they’re not Catholic or were not Catholic at the time, even if it was “5 minutes in Vegas” because if they have and have not received a decree of nullity from the Catholic Church, they are not free to marry and that would definitely something I would want to know up front. If they had received a decree of nullity of a past relationship, then that “marriage” never existed in the eyes of the Church anyway.

It sounds like you may be getting the terms mixed up. There is such a thing as a legal annulment of marriage and that is handled through the court system. It’s completely separate from the type of annulment that the church declares. There is literally no reason that you, as a non-clergy member, would need to know if someone had been through the annulment process.

 

[nodito]

As for asking someone on a date, why not just ask them if they’ve ever been married before? Even if they’re not Catholic or were not Catholic at the time, even if it was “5 minutes in Vegas” because if they have and have not received a decree of nullity from the Catholic Church, they are not free to marry and that would definitely something I would want to know up front. If they had received a decree of nullity of a past relationship, then that “marriage” never existed in the eyes of the Church anyway.

It sounds like you may be getting the terms mixed up. There is such a thing as a legal annulment of marriage and that is handled through the court system. It’s completely separate from the type of annulment that the church declares. There is literally no reason that you, as a non-clergy member, would need to know if someone had been through the annulment process.

I’m happily married, these were just hypotheticals. But I’m not confusing my terms. In my imagined scenario, a person was invited to the wedding of a Catholic in, say, a Protestant church, where one party had been married before. I could see it being useful to know whether the parties were free to marry when determining whether or not to attend. A previous poster pointed out that the Church doesn’t publicize when a dispensation of form has been given, so that’s sort of a moot point. But I do have a Catholic family member dating a lovely Catholic woman who has been married previously and although I’m not comfortable asking either of them straight up if she is free to marry (and really can’t discern this information without gossiping with other family members), I’m also sort of hesitant to celebrate their relationships too enthusiastically because I don’t actually know if she’s still married or not.

Mostly, I’m just trying to wrap my head around the fact that marriages are public, most divorces tend to be common knowledge, and yet annulments seem so secretive and private. Thank you to those posters who acknowledged this as a legitimate question.

 

[pnewton]

I understand the reasons that annulments are not public knowledge. However, I cannot wrap my head around the admonition against scandal for divorced and remarried who receive communion. How can there be scandal when one cannot know who has received an annulment and who has not? Is it not Church teaching that one should avoid rash judgment by always assuming the best case for others?

 

[NiceIsAsNiceDoes]

Because it isn’t anyone’s business other than the two who thought they were married.

 

[NiceIsAsNiceDoes]

All of those examples you give are situations that are nobody’s business other than the person who was involved in the marriage. If you want to ask somebody out on a date, and you are the kind of person who cares if their marriage was annulled, then I suggest you just ask them upfront instead of trying to poke around in a records that you not supposed to have access to anyway. Same goes for attending a wedding. If you are the kind of a person who this is an issue for, then you may ask the bride or groom. However, if I invited you to my wedding and you did that, I would probably rescind the invitation just on the basis that you are nosey and not somebody who I would want to be there.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I actually think your example is PLENTY reason why annulments should be kept private. Your speculation is very inappropriate. Why? Because we are called to charity. Charity means minding our own business or admonishing the sinner. By simply paging through a directory many scandals could be had.

And besides, dealing with non-Catholics you’re now dealing with many other things that aren’t annulments, like “lack of form” etc.

I have a dear friend who received “lack of form” and does NOT need an annulment. Many people think she was married in the Catholic Church but was not. So, let’s say she gets married and someone went to your theoretical “annulment” book. Her name is nowhere to be found. So they “don’t support” her perfectly valid wedding.

There’s way too much to go wrong here.

And like I said the “public”-ness of many marriages today doesn’t exist. Virtually no one could find out if my husband and I were married. No bulletin announcement, no newspaper announcement, and our marriage certificate is filed in an extremely obscure town.

 

[nodito]

Was this a reply to me? What example are you talking about? When did I ever propose an annulment directory or anything like it?

I’m finding your tone to be kind of hostile for a theoretical discussion.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Was this a reply to me? What example are you talking about? When did I ever propose an annulment directory or anything like it?

I’m finding your tone to be kind of hostile for a theoretical discussion.

It was a reply but I didn’t quote because of character limit.

You’re reading too much into my tone. I’m actually speaking of charity.

 

[MaryT777]

I have received a decree of nullity and I see no good purpose served by making this public information. It would only serve to fuel gossip in my opinion.

If you meet a person who is divorced you can just ask them directly before you ask them out if they are free to marry in the Church.

My personal experience is that I share that information with someone who seemed interested that I was free to marry in the Catholic Church. and that gives someone the option to opt out of a date if they so choose. Eventually someone will want to know some details of the reason you were divorced if and when things get more serious. That’s best done with a one on one coversation.

I

 

[Usige]

Nothing good could come from a proclamation, just idle gossip.

I would agree from the standpoint of detailed explanations, but I do wish that there was a published set of statistics on things like couple makeup (2 Catholics, Disparity of Cult, Disparity of Religion, both non-Catholic), time between putative marriage and declaration of nullity, canonical reason for positive finding, etc.

The reason this would be helpful is to try to figure out where we are failing in marriage prep and helping couples discern marriage.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Nothing good could come from a proclamation, just idle gossip.

I would agree from the standpoint of detailed explanations, but I do wish that there was a published set of statistics on things like couple makeup (2 Catholics, Disparity of Cult, Disparity of Religion, both non-Catholic), time between putative marriage and declaration of nullity, canonical reason for positive finding, etc.

The reason this would be helpful is to try to figure out where we are failing in marriage prep and helping couples discern marriage.

Actually, you can find that sort of data in the CARA studies. Unfortunately, they keep the best info behind a paywall.

http://cara.georgetown.edu/

That’s the link if you want to take a gander.

 

[Gorgias]

Me playing devil’s advocate: Is it possible to call a Catholic diocese and ask if Fr. John is a priest in good standing? Would they tell you when he was ordained? I would agree that some sacraments (confession, naturally, anointing of the sick, etc) are not and should not be made public, but they don’t establish a public state of life the way that Holy Orders or Matrimony does.

Apples and oranges.

You wouldn’t be asking “has Fr So-and-So been returned to the lay state?”, though – and, they wouldn’t answer. Rather, they would only be able to tell you whether Fr So-and-So had valid faculties.

In other words, you would be asking about a priest’s ability to validly and licitly celebrate the sacraments, and do so publicly. You wouldn’t be asking “is he still a priest?” (And, of course, “once a priest, always a priest”, so the analogy really doesn’t hold up.

So… different sort of question, and different sort of answer.

 

[deacon3b]

I tend to agree here. If one to be entering into an intimate relationship with a divorce’ there really should be no problem about discussing such matters. A truly wholesome relationship would include honesty, transparency, and wholesome conversation.

If a person hides something like failing to procure an annulment while willingly entering a dating scene would be a huge red flag. Of course there is the ignorance issue that seems to be very popular as of late.