Why aren't glass chalices acceptable?

[benedictgal]

When our current priest started using crystal chalices, there was one EME who had a fit over it, insisting that because “Rome said so”, we should be using gold-plate chalices.

BTW, I’m also not clear on why nice crystal wouldn’t be considered worthy to use (the breakage issue aside). Any vatican documents that adress this specifically?

Newbie, if you have read the posts in the thread, you would have seen the explanations from Rome. I wish that Cardinal Arinze’s words and comments on the subject were enough for you. The term EME is not appropriate, by the way, as it should be Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the subject of glassware:

1. Sacred Vessels
   [117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.205 The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,206 so that honor will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. ***Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. ***This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207

Cardinal Arinze, the Prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments further states:

In the United States, we have adequate income, why would we have to use glass or porcelain for the precious Blood and the Body of our Lord on the altar and not gold?

Oh, for the vessels. Ah! Actually, the liturgical laws forbid [this]. This is actually for bishops and priests to work out, because you cannot work out all that. But the liturgical laws are laid down about what type of vessel will be allowed at Mass.

***Glass is forbidden. Yes, Forbidden. And anything that can break. ***Not to talk of those using baskets! Terrible things happen in this world!

However, not all priests know that. There are places where they had glass and they didn’t know.

Please don’t be so quick to disregard things “because Rome said so.” Throughout this thread, we have been quoting RS and Cardinal Arinze. It is unfortunate that this is not enough for you.

 

[Newbie2]

Newbie, if you have read the posts in the thread, you would have seen the explanations from Rome. I wish that Cardinal Arinze’s words and comments on the subject were enough for you. The term EME is not appropriate, by the way, as it should be Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.

Please don’t be so quick to disregard things “because Rome said so.” Throughout this thread, we have been quoting RS and Cardinal Arinze. It is unfortunate that this is not enough for you.

Whoh, slow down there.

First, my statement about Rome is general in nature and referred to an earlier post. You assume, wrongly, that I disagree with Rome’s directives on glass. Read my post again carefully; I’m commenting on the discussion, not the directives themselves.

What’s wrong with EME, BTW? You know what I meant. Eucharist=Holy Communion, right? Is this term forbidden (I’m asking seriously)?

Sorry if I need more of an explanation. Inquiring minds want to know. In actuality, I want to be able to better explain it to others in my parish.

So, please don’t be so quick, as you say, to disregard my need to have things explained further.

 

[benedictgal]

Whoh, slow down there.

First, my statement about Rome is general in nature and referred to an earlier post. You assume, wrongly, that I disagree with Rome’s directives on glass. Read my post again carefully; I’m commenting on the discussion, not the directives themselves.

What’s wrong with EME, BTW? You know what I meant. Eucharist=Holy Communion, right? Is this term forbidden (I’m asking seriously)?

Sorry if I need more of an explanation. Inquiring minds want to know. In actuality, I want to be able to better explain it to others in my parish.

So, please don’t be so quick, as you say, to disregard my need to have things explained further.

I’m sorry I was so curt with you. One of my babies (dachshunds-I rescue them) just died and I’m really upset as today was his birthday. His name was Hubie.:crying: :crying: He was a very special little man.

The correct term is Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. The only minsters of the Eucharist are clergy. In fact, this term was clarified by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

 

[Brendan]

. Eucharist=Holy Communion, right?

Actually no, the terms are related, but not synonymous…

The Eucharist refers to the instance of the Sacrament of the Altar. In Liturgical terms, it is what is confected by the priest and Sacrificed by the priest.

Holy Communion refers to the Communication of the Eucharist, the act of bring the Eucharist to the Community.

Eucharist is what the Sacrament IS, and ‘Holy Communion’ is what is DONE with the Sacrament.

The two have the same relation as the words “Lamb” and “Passover” have.

The Lamb is what is offered at Passover as a sacrifice, and what is eaten during the Passover meal, but you cannot use the terms interchangeably.

A child has their first Eucharist when they are brought to Mass for the first time. They have their first Holy Communion when they recieve the Eucharist for the first time.

Do you see the distinction?

You know what I meant

Knowing what a person means doesn’t mean they are correct in saying it.

For example. If you read " I told my children to put away THERE clothes"

The correct word, or course, is ‘THEIR’, not ‘THERE’. The fact that you understood the writer’s intent does not mean that the statement was written correctly. The same is true for your use of the EME instead of the correct term, EMHC.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m sorry I was so curt with you. One of my babies (dachshunds-I rescue them) just died and I’m really upset as today was his birthday. His name was Hubie.:crying: :crying: He was a very special little man.

The correct term is Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. The only minsters of the Eucharist are clergy. In fact, this term was clarified by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

Sorry to hear that. I’m a veterinarian and have the unpleasant task of sending dogs and cats when it’s their time to meet their maker as part of the profession.

We’ve always used EME; Extrodinary Minister of the Eucharist, which I don’t see as differing in meaning from Extrordinary Minister of Holy Communion, but I’ll go back and read over Redemptionis Sacramentum again.

Thanks, b-gal.

Off topic, and there’s no official teaching on this, but I think we may see the good dogs sometime again. I’m pretty certain that I know where the BAD dogs go after their demise…

 

[Manfred]

Actually no, the terms are related, but not synonymous…

The Eucharist refers to the instance of the Sacrament of the Altar. In Liturgical terms, it is what is confected by the priest and Sacrificed by the priest.

Holy Communion refers to the Communication of the Eucharist, the act of bring the Eucharist to the Community.

Eucharist is what the Sacrament IS, and ‘Holy Communion’ is what is DONE with the Sacrament.

The two have the same relation as the words “Lamb” and “Passover” have.

The Lamb is what is offered at Passover as a sacrifice, and what is eaten during the Passover meal, but you cannot use the terms interchangeably.

A child has their first Eucharist when they are brought to Mass for the first time. They have their first Holy Communion when they recieve the Eucharist for the first time.

Do you see the distinction?

Knowing what a person means doesn’t mean they are correct in saying it.

For example. If you read " I told my children to put away THERE clothes"

The correct word, or course, is ‘THEIR’, not ‘THERE’. The fact that you understood the writer’s intent does not mean that the statement was written correctly. The same is true for your use of the EME instead of the correct term, EMHC.

As many of us who have “enjoyed” the Church’s renewal following Vatican II have heard, “Holy Communion” was so “pre-Conciliar” and “Eucharist” was in! So, one went to receive “the Eucharist”, children “make their first Eucharist”, the Mass became “our Eucharistic celebration of the community”, and “Eucharistic ministers” became the norm. Yessiree.

Thank God reason and decorum are slowly (albeit, way-y-y-y-y too slowly) coming back. In fact, one CAF member has in her profile “EMHC”, i.e., Extra-ordinary Minister of Holy Communion.

 

[panther]

Back to whether glass is a good choice for the Precious Blood:

I am an EMHC, and we had glass chalices, which were of good quality. One Sunday, one of the other EMHCs broke off a large piece of the chalice in his hand when he was a little too forceful wiping the edge with the purificator. We were all a little horrified - and we didn’t know what to do.

It was only a couple of weeks afterward when we switched to gold/silver chalices!

 

[TDiGaetano]

Good or Not?

What of this one?

 

[Digitonomy]

What of this one?

I would think not.

 

[randomguy0187]

Glass chalices can break…Ever since the new rules went into effect (December 2005)… not allowed to use anything but metal or metal coated wood. However, if you were using them prior to Dec 2005, you can continue to use them until they break. If they break, they may not be replaced

So for clarification, does this rule refer to ALL chalices being used in the mass, or just the one that’s used by the priest at the altar during the Liturgy of the Eucharist? At my parish the priest does use a metal chalice, but the EMHCs have glass ones (though I’m sure we’ve had them since before Dec 2005).

 

[benedictgal]

So for clarification, does this rule refer to ALL chalices being used in the mass, or just the one that’s used by the priest at the altar during the Liturgy of the Eucharist? At my parish the priest does use a metal chalice, but the EMHCs have glass ones (though I’m sure we’ve had them since before Dec 2005).

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say:

Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207

In other words, it covers all of the chalices used during Mass. Cardinal Arinze further clarified this during a Q & A segment published in the online edition of the Adoremus Bulletin:

In the United States, we have adequate income, why would we have to use glass or porcelain for the precious Blood and the Body of our Lord on the altar and not gold?

Oh, for the vessels. Ah! Actually, the liturgical laws forbid [this]. This is actually for bishops and priests to work out, because you cannot work out all that. But the liturgical laws are laid down about what type of vessel will be allowed at Mass.

Glass is forbidden. Yes, Forbidden. And anything that can break. Not to talk of those using baskets! Terrible things happen in this world!

However, not all priests know that. There are places where they had glass and they didn’t know.

I guess you can’t get any more crystal clear than that regarding glassware.