Why aren't RCIA course cover Catechism of the Catholic Church?

[Mannyfit75]

I have a question. I attended a RCIA program here in Iraq to see if what is taught is the basic Catholic doctrine and dogmas.

To my surprise the only thing there discuss is the Mass itself. Basically upcoming liturgy for Sunday service. I find the RCIA fruitful in a way, but what I find lacking is the kind of catechesis Fr. Corapi mention in his talks.

I am please about this RCIA but overrall disappointed. The Catechism of the Catholic Church as Pope John Paul II would be it would “be a sure norm of the Catholic faith.”

If what is taught in the RCIA is mainly the Mass but lacks teaching all doctrinal issues concerning our faith, then the Diocese need a major reform.

Priest often admit that Catholics are poorly Catechized. I start to see why. I am an assistant of the RCIA instructor since I volunteered. I do not want to step over his thunder. I did offer to teach Catholic Catechism once I received material like slides. So far I have not been successful. He said it would be best if I start as a “beginner.”

Perhaps, he does not think that I have the capability to teach because of my lack of teaching experience.

I must confess I have read many Catholic Resource material enough to inform a Catholic who wants to know his faith the basics.

I have to bring this out. I don’t feel the current RCIA Program doesn’t cover the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I believe it should if it isn’t the sheep will find another shepard to follow (another Church).

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Mannyfit75:

I did offer to teach Catholic Catechism once I received material like slides. So far I have not been successful. He said it would be best if I start as a “beginner.”

Oh I think so.

 

[toaslan]

the only thing there discuss is the Mass itself. Basically upcoming liturgy for Sunday service. I find the RCIA fruitful in a way, but what I find lacking is the kind of catechesis Fr. Corapi mention in his talks.

I am please about this RCIA but overrall disappointed. The Catechism of the Catholic Church as Pope John Paul II would be it would “be a sure norm of the Catholic faith.”

I agree that more objective content, more teaching of the truths which the Church proposes for our belief, is needed in all faith formation classes, from First Communion, through Confirmation, through adulthood.

An inquiry class, where people are on the outside looking at the Church, not necessarily seeking membership, would be different.

If your RCIA classes are really teaching the Mass, then you are teaching both Creeds, which are full of doctrine. The rest of the Mass is heavily scriptural, but that means it is heavily doctrinal as well. A good teacher might be able to get through a lot of important doctrine by teaching the Mass.

But the Catechism should definitely be constantly referred to!

However, if you are a beginner in teaching the faith, then why not observe and see if it all comes together or not?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I agree that more objective content, more teaching of the truths which the Church proposes for our belief, is needed in all faith formation classes, from First Communion, through Confirmation, through adulthood.

An inquiry class, where people are on the outside looking at the Church, not necessarily seeking membership, would be different.

If your RCIA classes are really teaching the Mass, then you are teaching both Creeds, which are full of doctrine. The rest of the Mass is heavily scriptural, but that means it is heavily doctrinal as well. A good teacher might be able to get through a lot of important doctrine by teaching the Mass.

But the Catechism should definitely be constantly referred to!

However, if you are a beginner in teaching the faith, then why not observe and see if it all comes together or not?

I’ve been observing and taking part for about 3 weeks now I am going to see until Christmas time if this RCIA may come together as you say.

If RCIA is just like this, I do believe another Class needs to be taught that focuses mainly on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I told the chaplain here I will offer my services if time permits me.

So far he got me as a observer and an assistant, and we’ll see if we can take up. My zeal for my Catholic faith has been strong and I feel like I’m wasting away some good evangelical time to make Catholics known their. I sincerely want them to know it all. The Truth of the Catholic Church.

What is the Truth? He is Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

 

[janessa]

When I went through RCIA in North Carolina in 1986-88, I was appalled. The first year, the RCIA was wonderful: taught by a Sister, the meetings were warm with a family atmosphere and we learned about what it was t o be a Catholic. (I had to drop out and re-joined in 1988.) By 1988, a lay person taught the class who was more interested in her dating life, I think, than the RCIA. We went over the Sunday readings, that was about all. Learning th e Catechism would have been much better, in my view.

 

[toaslan]

Learning th e Catechism would have been much better, in my view.

Your experience appals me too, janessa. When RCIA programs as such first launched, I thought they were a scandal for lack of content, mistaken content, and lots of fluff. A real turnoff to any serious inquirer. As the pendulum swings, I thought it was different now. I have a friend who teaches RCIA, and I know she gets through doctrinal content. If it is that dependent upon the individual teachers, it needs to be changed. I defer to you guys.

Personally, I have already asked my parish if we could have an adult ed class–by viewing the Fr. Corapi tapes! I agree with Manny they are dynamite. And what an easy (and entertaining) way to get through the Catechism, and what a solid grasp of the content of the faith they deliver. They are an amazing gift to the Church today: would that all parishes used them, or some other great approach to teaching the catechism TO THE ADULTS! THE ADULTS ARE THE SKIPPED GENERATION(S)! Of course there are bishops and their dioceses where Fr. Corapi is discouraged…

 

[cargopilot]

Dude! You…a beginner??? You’ve got as much of a grasp of the Catholic faith as anyone I know on these forums. It sounds like you are more of a threat to those who would want to water-down everything Catholic.

Perhaps you could serve as the ‘beginner assistant’, and deliver the fullness of the faith indirectly. Perhaps you could expand their knowledge with after class study. In all fairness to those attending the RCIA classes there, they really need to know what the one, true Church is all about. I’ve known of many poorly Chatechised individuals who were quite surprised to learn of numerous Church teachings that may have very well affected their decision to become Catholics. To me, it seems a bit deceiving to not cover many of those ‘touchy subjects’ with the candidates before they become Catholics forever.

Mannyfit75, I pray for your discernment to the priesthood continues, for your continued safety and the safety of all our service personnel who so honorably have placed themselves in harm’s way.

 

[Eireann]

If what is taught in the RCIA is mainly the Mass but lacks teaching all doctrinal issues concerning our faith, then the Diocese need a major reform.

Manny, do you spoon feed a baby first ? no you give it liquids, until they’re able to digest the solids later on.

 

[jmcrae]

Knowing the material and knowing how to teach are two different things. Both are equally important - someone who knows how to teach but doesn’t know the material is just as bad as someone who knows the material but doesn’t know how to teach.

I have had many well-meaning people come in to “fix” my Inquiry class by dumping the entire Catechism on the first-day Inquirers in the space of an hour. Needless to say, none of those people have ever returned - when I asked them what happened, they said, “I am too dumb to take that class; it is way too hard for me.”

Experience shows that the gradual approach - one concept at a time - is the best way. I know that so many people are worried that the Inquirers won’t learn what they need to learn, and they want to sit the people down, tie them up, and force feed them the entire teaching of the Church in one go, but it simply doesn’t work like that - that’s just not how people learn.

People start to learn when they feel valued and important in the group, so the first task is to make sure everyone feels welcomed and important.

They also can only remember one or two things at a time, especially at first, so the first few lessons have to be kept very simple. One way to help people remember things is to connect them to things that they already know, so another important aspect is to get them talking about their personal experiences. This is not in order to waste time socializing, but in order to give you the teacher some clues about how you can connect the new information you are about to give them to their personal experiences, so that they can remember it more easily, and relate to it in a personal way.

 

[toaslan]

People start to learn when they feel valued and important in the group, so the first task is to make sure everyone feels welcomed and important.

They also can only remember one or two things at a time, especially at first, so the first few lessons have to be kept very simple.

I’m a parish CCD Confirmation teacher, and I take the opposite approach. At first the kids are surprised that they even have to pay attention, that it isn’t all going to be warm fuzzies. No, they get grades, and they have to pass. Believe me, there have been letters home to parents… yep, I’ve lost some along the way, but that’s ok. I see the rest taking pride in achievement, in mastering the (very interesting) material. Maybe the ones who dropped out will approach confirmation another time in their lives when they are ready. After all, you can only receive the sacrament once, and the less prepared, disposed and receptive you are, the less the grace of the sacrament can penetrate the soul. And I am guided by the catechism: there are three pre-conditions to Confirmation. Candidate must be baptized, in a state of grace, and well-instructed in the Catholic religion.

One way to help people remember things is to connect them to things that they already know, so another important aspect is to get them talking about their personal experiences.

Thanks for your work in the parish, but sorry, very much of this approach and I would be an ex-member of such a class. Consider it patronizing. Would want the MEAT!!! Meat is interesting. Too much fluff. Fluff is not interesting. No offence.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m a parish CCD Confirmation teacher, and I take the opposite approach. At first the kids are surprised that they even have to pay attention, that it isn’t all going to be warm fuzzies. No, they get grades, and they have to pass.

You don’t think I’d be willing to flunk someone out? I have in the past, and will again when I have to.

Believe me, there have been letters home to parents… yep, I’ve lost some along the way, but that’s ok. I see the rest taking pride in achievement, in mastering the (very interesting) material. Maybe the ones who dropped out will approach confirmation another time in their lives when they are ready. After all, you can only receive the sacrament once, and the less prepared, disposed and receptive you are, the less the grace of the sacrament can penetrate the soul. And I am guided by the catechism: there are three pre-conditions to Confirmation. Candidate must be baptized, in a state of grace, and well-instructed in the Catholic religion.

Again, how does being nice to them mean that I’m not teaching them anything? On the contrary, they learn a lot more than just memorizing lists, etc. (which they do as well) - they also know the reasons behind them. They aren’t just memorizing by rote to avoid getting a whipping; they’re doing it because they’re proud of themselves and want to do a good job.

Thanks for your work in the parish, but sorry, very much of this approach and I would be an ex-member of such a class. Consider it patronizing. Would want the MEAT!!! Meat is interesting. Too much fluff. Fluff is not interesting. No offence.

It’s not “either/or”. They get both.

You don’t have to be mean to people to teach serious content.

Welcoming people into the group doesn’t mean that you aren’t teaching them anything; nor does it mean that there are no demands being made on them. It’s just a bit of jam to help the medicine go down as the song says - I think they come out stronger and better when they have interior motivation to learn, instead of out of fear. When the reason to be afraid is gone, will they still continue to learn? Or will they say, Oh good, that’s over, now I can do whatever I want.

 

[puzzleannie]

I have a question. I attended a RCIA program here in Iraq to see if what is taught is the basic Catholic doctrine and dogmas.

To my surprise the only thing there discuss is the Mass itself. Basically upcoming liturgy for Sunday service. I find the RCIA fruitful in a way, but what I find lacking is the kind of catechesis Fr. Corapi mention in his talks.

. . .
I have to bring this out. I don’t feel the current RCIA Program doesn’t cover the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I believe it should if it isn’t the sheep will find another shepard to follow (another Church).

you investigated the local RCIA program available to you, and then make a statement about “the current RCIA program” for the whole church. “The Current RCIA Program” does mandate that teaching include doctrine as well as initial proclamation of the gospel and preparation for the rites and sacraments of initiation. There is wide latitude, determined by the bishops of each country and the local bishop, on how that is to be carried out.

It is not required that an exhaustive presentation of the Catechism be made, but there must be adequate explanation of the foundation doctrines so that the candidate can make and informed, intelligent profession of faith. The Catechism is not intended as a textbook for RCIA or religious ed, it is a guide for pastors, catechists and others charged with writing and publishing faith formation resources and with teaching. The bishops of each conference are expected to produce catechisms for their own countries suitable for classroom use. The US Catechism for Adults and the Compendium are admirably suited for this purpose. Many publishers of RCIA resources have also produced excellent digests of the Catechism with lesson plans etc. Our Sunday Visitor and Liguori both have excellent series.

If in Iraq you mean the RCIA program on US military bases, that would follow the US Bishops adaptation of the rites, which you can access through links on the Evangelization forum where this topic is ordinarily discussed.

Furthermore, you say you are judging after 3 weeks participation in a program that should take at least one year. Hardly a far basis for judgement. Why not participate for the complete cycle, including the rites–because preparation intensifies during Lent, and the mystagogy after Easter–and then make your judgement of your local program.

 

[jack_hawkins]

I have a question. I attended a RCIA program here in Iraq to see if what is taught is the basic Catholic doctrine and dogmas.
To my surprise the only thing there discuss is the Mass itself

well that wasn’t the case with our RCIA programme - perhaps in a theatre of war things are different?

 

[Mannyfit75]

you investigated the local RCIA program available to you, and then make a statement about “the current RCIA program” for the whole church. “The Current RCIA Program” does mandate that teaching include doctrine as well as initial proclamation of the gospel and preparation for the rites and sacraments of initiation. There is wide latitude, determined by the bishops of each country and the local bishop, on how that is to be carried out.

It is not required that an exhaustive presentation of the Catechism be made, but there must be adequate explanation of the foundation doctrines so that the candidate can make and informed, intelligent profession of faith. The Catechism is not intended as a textbook for RCIA or religious ed, it is a guide for pastors, catechists and others charged with writing and publishing faith formation resources and with teaching. The bishops of each conference are expected to produce catechisms for their own countries suitable for classroom use. The US Catechism for Adults and the Compendium are admirably suited for this purpose. Many publishers of RCIA resources have also produced excellent digests of the Catechism with lesson plans etc. Our Sunday Visitor and Liguori both have excellent series.

If in Iraq you mean the RCIA program on US military bases, that would follow the US Bishops adaptation of the rites, which you can access through links on the Evangelization forum where this topic is ordinarily discussed.

Furthermore, you say you are judging after 3 weeks participation in a program that should take at least one year. Hardly a far basis for judgement. Why not participate for the complete cycle, including the rites–because preparation intensifies during Lent, and the mystagogy after Easter–and then make your judgement of your local program.

I am still observing so I am currently reviewing the one RCIA here I do think I need to view it observe more and make a final judgment though, I do think the RCIA does lack teaching the CCC. I like to quote JPII the “the Catechism of the Catholic Church is a sure norm for the teaching of faith.”

I did say I was not displeased with it, but I think the program should teach Catholic doctrine.

 

[jack_hawkins]

in our programme we were all encouraged to have the Compendium
different people have different views on what RCIA should do, with some justification for both ends of the spectrum
IMO RCIA shouldn’t be a series of hurdles, like a selection procedure almost
I still haven’t got myself a Cathechism partly due to the relentless quoting of same on this and other websites - in any case I have the clergy to ask questions of
there’s no doubt that certain issues should be tackled so that people aren’t surprised by them tho
RCIA doesn’t have to cover everything tho, as there should be continuing catechesis after reception for at least the first year

 

[clmowry]

I think you should embrace the subject matter at hand.

You could draw the entire Catechism out of a series of discussion on the Eucarist.

Look at the structure of the Catechism. Apostles Creed, The Commandments, The Lords Prayer.

You can touch on the Trinity, Transubstantition, Christ’s Attoning Sacrafice, etc.

The problem, at least the way I see it, is that from a Catholic spiritual stand point your class may be made up of a bunch of 1st graders, a few high school kids and one guy working on his PhD.

For the “1st Graders” learning the History of the Sign of the Cross may be brand new, the high school kids go “Yeah I already got that.” and the PhD might respond “Wow this is boring.” or perhaps maybe even as likely “I haven’t thought about the beauty of this simple prayer in a long time.” because he’s been busy working out the difference between Calvin and Luther.

Take the subject at hand and expand upon it to fit the need of the class “where they are in their faith journey.” Sombody in the room is still on baby milk. Somebody else is looking for a steak.

Your task is to figure out how to make sure everybody leaves the table full.

Chuck

I am still observing so I am currently reviewing the one RCIA here I do think I need to view it observe more and make a final judgment though, I do think the RCIA does lack teaching the CCC. I like to quote JPII the “the Catechism of the Catholic Church is a sure norm for the teaching of faith.”

I did say I was not displeased with it, but I think the program should teach Catholic doctrine.

 

[puzzleannie]

many if not most RCIA programs have two components, some joined in the same session, sometimes on separate days or evenings, one is the catechetical session which follows a syllabus based on the catechism, the other is the formation, based on the Sunday lectionary readings, with teaching, reflection and meditation based on the readings. The second is the session that usually involves the sponsors, is focused on conversion, spiritual growth, reflection and inward change and formation, more than on aquisition of knowledge. The first is intended to give a systematic presentation of doctrine, and may use any of a number of plans, some following the layout of the CCC, some teaching the same doctrine, but related more to the lectionary. Both components are essential according to the RCIA ritual book which has the guidelines and rubrics. If you have only participated in the readings, or breaking open the Word sessions, you may be missing a whole other part of the process.

 

[Light_Seeker]

They also can only remember one or two things at a time, especially at first, so the first few lessons have to be kept very simple.

Your syllabus seems exactly like my RCIA which I just concluded.

The first few weeks, I was thinking it was a total waste of time. I wanted the meat, what I got was social interactions & personal stories.

It gradually & smoothly changed, with guest speakers including theologian professors from the local Catholic U, several Pastors from different parishes, our own Priests & Deacons, and Priests who had served as theologians to JPII in the Vatican, all covering different concepts in the Catechism. There were times I couldn’t keep up, having to reinforce my teachings with books and internet research.

Reading the many RCIA horror stories on this site, I am truly grateful for the outstanding education and literal seeds of knowledge, I must now cultivate, which I received. So much so I volunteered to do anything I can to help out next years RCIA!

 

[jc-servant]

When I was an AF brat it seemed like the chapel could find funds for materials more easily than a smaller civilian church. Perhaps the OP could ask his priest if they could purchase the Compendium of the Catechism for all participants.

In my parish we all received the full catechism prior to release of the compendium and now participants get both. They also get a Catholic Bible if they don’t have one, plus smaller books like the Catholic Handbook that tell things like how to make the sign of the cross and how to say basic prayers. However, the classes were not a mere reading of the books.

Each week built on the lessons of the previous weeks so that major concepts could be learned. We began with the basic common beliefs of all Christians and moved to a summary of church history (2000 years of history in 2 hours). It took a month or so to get to the meatier subjects, but people were more settled into the routine and had become more comfortable doing small group discussions by that time.

 

[jack_hawkins]

That is something I have been thinking about, giving some money to the parish for catechetical material - as the area is very poor and some people would have a problem affording it