Why artificial birth contol is wrong

[distracted]

That is not true. The main reason that the Catholic Church believes the use of contraception to be gravely contrary to the moral law is because it is gravely contrary to the moral law. One of the reasons it considers the use of estrogen pills as contraception immoral is that it can be abortifacient.

She also considers hysterectomies and ovarectomies gravely contrary to the moral law if used for contraception.

huh???

what are not agreeing with???

 

[WetCatechumen]

its wrong but its not the same as murder…

there is nothing wrong w/ preventing life naturally…

in fact the way the world is… i woudn’t want to bring children into it…

There is a difference between preventing life and not trying to bring it into existence. I think that’s where we disagree.

Not having sex means that you’re not setting things in motion that will create a human being.

Having sex means you are starting a mechanism that God created, which, if you left alone, would create a human being. Hence, if you interrupt it, it is like murder - I never said it was murder, only that it was like murder, because you’re preventing their existence.

 

[distracted]

***even NFP can be “intrinsically immoral” if it is done out of selfishness … and i frankly think it is more often than not these days…

when people decline to have children cuz they’d rather have more money… more freedom… ***

 

[WetCatechumen]

***even NFP can be “intrinsically immoral” if it is done out of selfishness … and i frankly think it is more often than not these days…

when people decline to have children cuz they’d rather have more money… more freedom… ***

I totally agree. My Protestant parents had nine kids and used birth control to space us - but I suspect that that is living more within the spirit of the law than the legalities. A couple could have a single child and use NFP to avoid kids without ever once wasting a single sperm, yet commit a greater evil than my parents.

While obviously every single act must be open to life, my parents marriage was much more open to life than the theoretical marriage I just posed.

 

[Ron_Conte]

even NFP can be “intrinsically immoral” if it is done out of selfishness

No, it cannot. There are three fonts of morality, the motive or intention (e.g. selfishness) is in the first font. An act is only intrinsically immoral if the moral object in the second font is evil. So any act done with a sinful intent would be a sin, but not an intrinsically evil sin.

There are three fonts of morality: intention, moral object, circumstances. All three fonts must be good for any act to be moral. If one or more fonts are bad, the act is immoral. There are no exceptions to this basic principle of morality.

 

[ThomasToo]

No, it cannot. There are three fonts of morality, the motive or intention (e.g. selfishness) is in the first font. An act is only intrinsically immoral if the moral object in the second font is evil. So any act done with a sinful intent would be a sin, but not an intrinsically evil sin.

There are three fonts of morality: intention, moral object, circumstances. All three fonts must be good for any act to be moral. If one or more fonts are bad, the act is immoral. There are no exceptions to this basic principle of morality.

I think his problem was semantic; while NFP cannot be intrinsically immoral when done with the wrong intention it can certainly be immoral.

 

[seanflynn]

Wetcatechumen, I understood your analogy. It was very accurate. I was disagreeing with you concluding two sentences:

Birth control is intended to prevent human beings from coming into existence. For that reason, it is gravely wrong.

I feel your wording here is too simple, inclusive, and limited to be literally true.
Abstinance in any moment can be intended to prevent human beings from coming to existence. That’s the inclusive part. It includes too much.

On to limited: There are other reasons it is gravely wrong. For example: A contracepted sexual act is telling a lie with the whole body/self, not just your words. The sexual act communicates “I freely give you everything I am.” However, while contracepting, the person isn’t actually giving everything. They are choosing to withhold their fertility, whether or not they are fertile in that moment. So, in this sense, it is also a sin against the Truth, not just the Life. Both of these Jesus claims to be, and we should be pretty concerned about sinning against Him in any way.

I didn’t think you actually intended all the meanings I took from your statements, I was just nitpicking because I think it is important for us all to be clear in moral teachings. Because if we get into discussions with people that actually disagree with us, we should be arguing the actual points of morality, not summarized versions that may be more easily dismissed through logic when the actual, full Truth can not be dismissed.

If it were that simple, then the Papal documents on it wouldn’t be as long as they are. There wouldn’t be such a long discussion in this forum about it.

 

[rwillenborg]

Some women have such heavy menstrual flows that they need blood transfusions. I don’t think there is a name for this disorder, it’s just something that happens. The pill can treat these bleed-outs, and debilitating cramps that pretty much incapacitate some women.

You are thinking of Dysfunctional Uterine Bleeding. Sorry, I had been confused by your earlier post. You had referred to it as a bleeding disorder, so I thought you were talking about something like hemophilia. Now I get what you’re saying. The pill is often used to treat with, with varying success. As I mentioned before, I took the pill for awhile for for my medical problems. Thankfully, I was able to have those problems corrected and could get off of the pill.
And thankfully, the Catholic church does not prohibit the use of the pill for theraputic purposes. Whew!

 

[distracted]

I totally agree. My Protestant parents had nine kids and used birth control to space us - but I suspect that that is living more within the spirit of the law than the legalities. A couple could have a single child and use NFP to avoid kids without ever once wasting a single sperm, yet commit a greater evil than my parents.

While obviously every single act must be open to life, my parents marriage was much more open to life than the theoretical marriage I just posed.

with all due respect i wasn’t saying that… and wouldn’t 100% agree…

artif b control is always intrinsically evil…

i would say that using NFP to avoid having children… or more chilren… when God may want you to have more… THat is a evil… selfish… but it is not intrinsically evil… probably a venial sin as oposed to abc which is a mortal sin… inot sure what the RCC says about this exactly but i’ feel it would agree… I know it would agree about the part about… abc being intrinsically immoral…

 

[distracted]

No, it cannot. There are three fonts of morality, the motive or intention (e.g. selfishness) is in the first font. An act is only intrinsically immoral if the moral object in the second font is evil. So any act done with a sinful intent would be a sin, but not an intrinsically evil sin.

There are three fonts of morality: intention, moral object, circumstances. All three fonts must be good for any act to be moral. If one or more fonts are bad, the act is immoral. There are no exceptions to this basic principle of morality.

i made a mistake…

hard to believe, i know… go figure…

i have no idea why i put the word “instrinscially” in there… i was distracted…

i shouldn’t have said it was “intrinsically evil” … the words used by the Church to describe abc…

just meant that it is evil… not in accord w/ God’s will… to avoid having children indefinitly ssuming the parents have lots of $$ and there is no good reasn for them not to have children…

 

[distracted]

in reference to post 90

Jesus said Not everyone who says Lord Lord will ener the kingdom of Heaven but only he who does the will of the Father"

it is not God’s will that peole focus on $$ and getting ahead at the expense of … such things as having children…

children are little pockets of heaven in a very unheavenly world…

if we teach them the right way… and guide them properly they can change the world…

and does it EVER need changing…

we are supposed to become like them… Jesus said unless you become like little children you will not enter the kingdom of Hvn

 

[distracted]

divorce, child abuse, and abortion all go up in societies practicing contraception