Why ask Mary or the Saints?

[EviPolevhia]

Assuming for a moment that Catholicism is 110% correct, I’m confused on intercessory prayer. And by that let me clarify. I don’t mean Person A is sick so Person B is going to pray for them to God. I mean Person A is praying to Mary or a Saint for something to happen in the world (or not in the world, whichever). It’s just as easy (isn’t it?) to pray to God. If I am at the dinner table with my father and mother, one to my left and one to my right, I’m not going to turn to my mother and ask her to ask my father to pass the salt to me. I’m simply going to ask my father.

The only thing I can think of is a vague sort of idea that it’s better to have more people praying for something? Which makes no sense to me either. If one person prays for something or a thousand, would the numbers influence God’s decision? It doesn’t seem to me like it should because he’s all knowing and know’s what’s best for the situation, no matter how many want or don’t want a particular outcome.

I’m sorry if this seems like a silly or entry level sort of question in Catholicism. I did try and look this up on my own but the information I found never really directly answered what I wondered.

 

[Della]

Assuming for a moment that Catholicism is 110% correct, I’m confused on intercessory prayer. And by that let me clarify. I don’t mean Person A is sick so Person B is going to pray for them to God. I mean Person A is praying to Mary or a Saint for something to happen in the world (or not in the world, whichever). It’s just as easy (isn’t it?) to pray to God. If I am at the dinner table with my father and mother, one to my left and one to my right, I’m not going to turn to my mother and ask her to ask my father to pass the salt to me. I’m simply going to ask my father.

It isn’t just a matter of asking for the salt. When we pray for things we are asking that God do what we want, yes? There are a few problems with that, though. Firstly, we don’t always know what is best for us. For instance, maybe you shouldn’t have salt on your food. It would be remiss of your mother not to mention this to your father. When we ask the saints to pray for us we are asking that they, who have been perfected in God’s love and have only God’s will and our best interests at heart. We often ask for the wrong reasons or without the purest motivations. The saints present out petitions devoid of such impediments between us and God.

The only thing I can think of is a vague sort of idea that it’s better to have more people praying for something? Which makes no sense to me either. If one person prays for something or a thousand, would the numbers influence God’s decision? It doesn’t seem to me like it should because he’s all knowing and know’s what’s best for the situation, no matter how many want or don’t want a particular outcome.

Several people all praying for the same thing means more people concerned for the one being prayed for and more people praying who may have less selfish motives. We are not perfect creatures and we need help. It seems God wants us to support one another in this way–for our benefit.

I’m sorry if this seems like a silly or entry level sort of question in Catholicism. I did try and look this up on my own but the information I found never really directly answered what I wondered.

Not silly questions at all. But you are coming at this issue with some misconceptions and without any theological background, so of course you don’t understand. Theology is not easy when you have no connection to it or to God. It’s like learning French online with no connection to any French people or the culture. Not a perfect analogy, but I hope it helps.

 

[EviPolevhia]

Thank you, your answer did help clear up some questions.

 

[Della]

Thank you, your answer did help clear up some questions.

You’re welcome. :tiphat:

 

[MarcoPolo]

Assuming for a moment that Catholicism is 110% correct, I’m confused on intercessory prayer. And by that let me clarify. I don’t mean Person A is sick so Person B is going to pray for them to God.

Just to clarify, Catholic “prayer to saints” is asking them to pray for you, to intercede for you. We do not pray to them as an ends. What Paul does in places like Rm 15:30, Col 4:3, 1 Thes 5:25, 2 Thes 3:1, is the same as what we do, only we ask our heavenly members of the body of Christ for their prayers on our behalf.

 

[EviPolevhia]

Just to clarify, Catholic “prayer to saints” is asking them to pray for you, to intercede for you. We do not pray to them as an ends. What Paul does in places like Rm 15:30, Col 4:3, 1 Thes 5:25, 2 Thes 3:1, is the same as what we do, only we ask our heavenly members of the body of Christ for their prayers on our behalf.

I was raised Catholic (birth till about halfway through high school, a Catholic one mind you) and so that one I know at least. Which is why in my example of the father and mother at the table it was asking my mother to ask my father to pass the salt, not asking my mother to pass the salt. I have some close friends who are protestant and I’ve had to explain to them their own misunderstandings of Catholicism. Explaining to them that Catholics do not view Mary as the one who answers prayers, simply one of the many people Catholics sometimes ask for help in praying to Christ for help.

 

[Mintaka]

Everyone who comes on this board and asks a question of a fellow Christian, expecting an answer or good advice, clearly believes in intercessory prayer to the saints.

We just have to work on their belief on prayer to the saints in Heaven.

 

[10gr8kids]

Della gave a good answer. I would just like to add that James 5:16 says the prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

The saints in heaven are righteous and so their prayers are much more powerful than ours.

 

[EviPolevhia]

Della gave a good answer. I would just like to add that James 5:16 says the prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

The saints in heaven are righteous and so their prayers are much more powerful than ours.

How does a prayer have ‘power’? The prayer does not accomplish anything except communication to God, right?

 

[amar_patel]

How does a prayer have ‘power’? The prayer does not accomplish anything except communication to God, right?

Very interesting question.

I am not a theologian so I won’t try to even begin with a well constructed working definition of power, but I will point out a common scripture passage that is directly related to this issue.

At the wedding feast at Cana, the wine steward goes first to Our Lady to indicate a need (they have run out of wine at a wedding! the horror). She takes it faithfully to Our Lord (God). His response to the steward’s plight (his prayer) is “Woman (foolishly westerners take this as an insult, but correctly translated it is an honorific like “Madam” more formal than “Mother”) What concern is it of mine. My hour is not yet at hand” Trusting in His Supreme Power and His loving fidelity to His mother, she does not argue with Him but instructs the steward to “Do whatever He tells you”. 1)She brings the steward to faith and devotion to Jesus 2***) Jesus satisfies the steward (answers his prayer) after Mary shows her complete love and trust in Him when he originally did not.

I didn’t define power but some would call her intercession “powerful” in this biblical event.

If you like this explanation please read some of my book in which I hope to bring this and other Mysteries of the Rosary alive.
scribd.com/amarp_49
Sorry for the shameless plug, but I feel called by the Holy Spirit to write this book and to spread the word amongst faithful Catholics for their reflection.

Please pray for me as I am for you.
Thanks
Amar

 

[Gorillaman]

How does a prayer have ‘power’? The prayer does not accomplish anything except communication to God, right?

Prayer not only communicates but I also think it shows submission…we bow our heads to our savior…not that God needs this, but I think when we TOTALLY pray, and TRULY believe…our prayers have a very strong power…we are very powerful beings( humans), in mind, body, conviction, and when we include spirit to that, I truly believe that means a lot…

 

[Gorillaman]

Not a theologian either

 

[EviPolevhia]

It’s alright. I know I won’t find all the answers. But thanks for trying to help.

 

[10gr8kids]

How does a prayer have ‘power’? The prayer does not accomplish anything except communication to God, right?

I’m not a theologian either and I don’t know if this will be any good, but I’ll try.

Suppose there are two young children. One is very sweet and kind, not demanding and asks for very little. One day he/she comes to you to ask for money to buy a gift for some friend that has very little. How would you feel/react to this request?

Now say there is another child always demanding and selfish. They come to you and ask you for money to buy something for themselves. How do you feel/react to this?

I hope this is a good explanation. Seems like I may have heard something like this once when I was young.

 

[EviPolevhia]

The only problem is wouldn’t God judge based on what’s best for us, not how he feels about our request? To do so seems a bit petty and human. “Well I don’t like the way this was asked so I’ll say no, without regard to whether or not it should be done.”

 

[adrift]

If I am at the dinner table with my father and mother, one to my left and one to my right, I’m not going to turn to my mother and ask her to ask my father to pass the salt to me. I’m simply going to ask my father.

Consider another scenerio. Child wants to go to the movies. Child knows Dad will say no. Child goes to Mother to intercede with Father. Mother gets Dad to give permission because she has influence with him.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I find a couple of scriptures very helpful in this matter.

“The prayer of the righteous avails much” Jas 5:16 and "Nothing unclean shall enter " Rev 21:27

Catholics believe that the Mary and the Saints are in heaven. They are fully purified because they are in the presence of the Lord-- this is what Rev 21 is saying. We, too, are washed clean in the Blood of the Lamb. But we keep sinning. Those in heaven are not sinning. So, who is more righteous… you or someone who is in the presence of the Lord? The answer is the latter. We cannot possible be as righteous as someone in heaven because we still have attachments to sin. Thus, it is the prayer of Mary or a saint which avails more than the prayer of someone here on earth. That is not to say that God does not hear our prayers. He certainly hears and answers prayers, but their prayers are especially efficacious because they are righteous in the sight of God. You could think of intercessory prayer as us asking a Saint or the Blessed Mother to present our prayer to God through their righteous hands.

Also, read Tobit 12:12 where the archangel Raphael reveals that it was he who heard Tobit’s prayers and presented them to God. Men will be like angels in heaven (Mt 22:30) according to Jesus. If an angel is permitted by God to hear and present a prayer, as Scripture attests, then I see no reason that God cannot empower a person in heaven to do the same.

Remember that all prayers, even those where we address a saint or Mary, are intended for God. Sometimes people lose track of that. Only God has the power to answer a prayer; no saint, including Mary, has any power on their own. However, they have been empowered by God in a special way so as to help those who are here on earth.

 

[pablope]

Assuming for a moment that Catholicism is 110% correct, I’m confused on intercessory prayer. And by that let me clarify. I don’t mean Person A is sick so Person B is going to pray for them to God. I mean Person A is praying to Mary or a Saint for something to happen in the world (or not in the world, whichever).

It’s just as easy (isn’t it?) to pray to God.

 

[MattHolt5540]

Hi,

I would like to ask something and I don’t mean this to be rude I’m just giving my opinion and I don’t wish to offend anyone. But I don’t understand some of these explanation because it sounds like your saying that we need the Saints and Mary to intercede for us because we can’t truly relay what we need to God and these Saints and Mary because they are in Heaven and know his will can relay it for us to God. Now this is the part I don’t understand it sound like that doctrine replaces the Holy Spirit’s job. Here is a verse that explains what I’m saying “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.” - Romans 8:26. My question is this why do we need Mary and all the Saint make intercession for us when we have God the Holy Spirit interceding for us. To me it just sounds like your taking away some the duties the Holy Spirit has. I don’t think that is your intend but to me that is what it sounds like. I hope we can clear this up and come to a better understanding.

Matt Holt

 

[Della]

Hi,

I would like to ask something and I don’t mean this to be rude I’m just giving my opinion and I don’t wish to offend anyone. But I don’t understand some of these explanation because it sounds like your saying that we need the Saints and Mary to intercede for us because we can’t truly relay what we need to God and these Saints and Mary because they are in Heaven and know his will can relay it for us to God. Now this is the part I don’t understand it sound like that doctrine replaces the Holy Spirit’s job. Here is a verse that explains what I’m saying “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.” - Romans 8:26. My question is this why do we need Mary and all the Saint make intercession for us when we have God the Holy Spirit interceding for us. To me it just sounds like your taking away some the duties the Holy Spirit has. I don’t think that is your intend but to me that is what it sounds like. I hope we can clear this up and come to a better understanding.

Matt Holt

The Holy Spirit definitely speaks for us when we cannot express ourselves and makes up for our defiencies, but he does not take away our selfish motives. He works in and through Mary and the Saints to help rid us of our selfish motives. It’s not an either/or kind of thing. Being that the Body of Christ is one with the Head, we all work together, doing our various functions. All that Mary and the Saints, and we on earth do is through the Holy Spirit, applying God’s graces. We can do nothing of lasting value without God’s grace and the action of the Holy Spirit working in us. In Catholic teaching Mary and the Saints in heaven are connected to us because all of us, living and in heaven, are alive in Christ and active in his work.