Why be good?

[mlldrl]

Based on your reply quoted above, are you saying that the good things a person does for Jesus and others is not one of the reasons why a person makes it into heaven? I thought this was the Roman Catholic view, but perhaps i am mistaken.

Ah…but that’s not where you were taking it in your previous post. You seemed to be accusing me of preaching works alone saves. We are called to respond to the grace that we are given.

What does our Lord say about it? Look at Matthew 25:31-46? Is your faith like that of the sheep or the goats?

The best advice anyone can give comes from our Blessed Mother, “Do whatever he tells you.” (John 2:5)

M

 

[Janet_S]

S4J–Since you asked the question “Why be good?” I was wondering if you have read what the CC teaches about virtue?

This is what the CCC has to say about The Virtues. It’s only about 10 pages long, so I hope you read it.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a7.htm

1803 **"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."62

A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions. **

**The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.63

62 Phil 4:8.
63 St. Gregory of Nyssa, De beatitudinibus, 1: PG 44, 1200D.**

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Sorry if you misunderstood my point, but let me hold you off at the pass. My point was not in reference to perfection, it was in reference to the difference in using the words “be” and “become.” Why is this so important to you to distinguish the two? This is what I said,

“In response to your post, I don’t understand why you make it a point to distinguish between the words “be” and “become” in the above passage. The word “become” implies a change, but it doesn’t necessarily include a long period of time to effect that change. If someone weren’t perfect 1 second ago and is now perfect at this moment, he has “become” perfect even though the change was instantaneous.”

I used the word “perfect” only because that is the line of Scripture we were talking about. Substitute any other word for “perfect” that you want to.

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”(Matthew 5:48)Well, Janet, you and i are discussing these words of our master because you brought them up. To paraphrase what you were saying, i think you were trying to reason that Jesus is telling us to strive to become perfect. This is a requirement to get into heaven, as you pointed out (and as i agree), because the author of Hebrews states:

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.(Hebrews 12:14)I’m assuming you and i agree that holiness and perfection are synonymous in these two passages. I’m also assuming that you agree that by using the word perfect our beloved Savior Jesus Christ meant a state of sinless perfection. Without this state of sinless perfection, the writer of Hebrews points out, no one will enter heaven, you are saying. Therefore, being perfect is a requirement to receive the gift of eternal life.

I think i am understanding you sufficiently. Please correct me if i am not. If i am comprehending what you are trying to tell me, then up to this point we are in complete agreement.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Janet:

I also want to say that i appreciate the time you are devoting to this discussion, as it is one that is important to me. I can see you spend a good deal of time reading Scripture and i hope to learn much from you. If a saint you ain’t then you are certainly acting like one!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Janet:

You asked why i make a distinction between the words be and become when Jesus says:

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”(Matthew 5:48)

The answer is that i put a lot of stock in what he said. He is God, after all, and everything he did was perfect, as was every word he said. I do not think he would be careless in his choice of words, for that might cause someone like myself to fall into sin.

No, when he said, “be perfect … as your heavenly Father”, he meant be (rigth now) as perfect as God. It’s no good saying that is not what he meant, for that is what he said, and God means everything he says. As the writer of Hebrews also assures us:

… it is impossible for God to lie …

(Hebrews 6:18)

That being said, why would he choose the word be instead of become? If he had, we would not be having this discussion, for i might be a Roman Catholic!

If you think i’m spending too much time examining the trees and not stepping back and seeing the beauty of the forest, i’d have to say that getting close to an idea and examining it from both sides is the best way i know to discover the truth. Like a crime scene investigator, i’ve learned to let the evidence i find speak for itself.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Janet:

To use an example (for examples work best for helping my simple mind to understand some great truth) let my propose this:

My son loves to write. He might become a great author some day. I do not tell him, “Be a great published author today” for no publisher has ever published his works. I do, however, tell him that one day i hope he will become a great published author.

Likewise, he also loves to play sports of all kinds. I do not tell him to be a good professional athlete (how could he?), however, i do hope that one day he becomes one, if that is what he chooses.

Another example is becoming a child of God. One day some Mormons came to my door (and if you order their free Bible that is advertised on TV, they will!) and one of them said “We are all children of God.”

However, i knew God has no grandchildren, for John writes:

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God …(John 1:12)
You see, no one can become something that he already is. As the last example shows, no person can become one of God’s children if he is born a child of God. The opposite is also true: No one can already be what he hopes to become. As the other example shows, my son cannot be a professional athlete if he has not become one.

The same is true for Jesus’ command to us:

“Be perfect … as your heavenly Father is perfect.”(Matthew 5:48)We become what we already are not, and we cannot be what we have not yet become. Just as my son cannot be (right now) a professional athlete, so too, you and i cannot be (right now) perfect. We can hope to one day become perfect, but we cannot be perfect. If we reach a state of being perfect, then we cannot become perfect, because we already are.

Let me use another example: You cannot say to George W. Bush, “I hope you become the President of the United States” because he already is! He does not have to become President once he is in a state of being President.

In a similar way, you, Janet, would not have to become perfect once you are in a state of being perfect, holy and sinless. If you were in that state and i said, “Janet, become perfect!” You would say, “You silly boy, i already am!”

Jesus is not saying to you, “Become as perfect as God, Janet.” He is saying, “Be as perfect as God.” That can only mean one thing, as incredible as it sounds, there must be some way that every Christian is (in the present) as perfect as God.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

So, Janet, perhaps you can begin to see how the lack of four letters changes the whole meaning of God’s words to you and me.

“Be perfect , as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

We are not in the process of coming into a state of being perfect, for Jesus says we (in some wonderful and perhaps incomprehensible sense) already are perfect!

The question i could not help but ask is the same that the religious ruler Nicodemus asked Jesus: “How can this be?” So, i did as is my habit. I prayed that the Holy Spirit would give me the wisdom i did not have.

If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
(James 1:5)

I search the Scriptures in hope of finding the answer, and this is what i found:

And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
(Hebrews 10:10-14)

So, Janet, you asked me to go first and explain why i have a hangup about the word be. You promised me that if i explained why then you would explain to me what you think these words of Hebrews 10:10-14 mean to you. I trust that you were honest with me when you made this promise. I’m asking you, then, the question once again:

How does the writer of this passage say you and i can be (at this very moment) as perfect as God?

 

[Janet_S]

You brought up a lot of questions in your last few posts. I won’t answer all of them today, but eventually I will. The first is:

To be or to become, that is the question.

This is in reference to Matthew 5:48

To “become” can mean to “change” or to “grow to be.”

To “be” means that you “are.”

You seem to be saying that when you use the word “become,” this involves a process or a long period of time. I am saying that it does not necessarily involve a long period of time—it may or may not. What it does do is to refer to a change. That change can happen instantaneously or over a long period of time. If Jesus had used the word “become” rather than “be,” it still wouldn’t have cleared up the issue of how long it takes to reach that state of perfection.

You say that if Jesus had used the word “become” rather than the word “be,” you might be (or is it become?) a Roman Catholic. My advice to you, make sure you are using the correct translation of the Bible, because some of them have a different spin on this from your translation:

(Matthew 5:48)

(NASB)Therefore you **are to be **perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(The Message) “In a word, what I’m saying is, Grow up. You’re kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. **Live **generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you.”
(New Living Translation)
But you **are to be **perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect
(English Standard Version) You therefore **must be **perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(Contemporary English Version) But you **must always act like **your Father in heaven.
(21st Century KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in Heaven is perfect.
(American Standard Version) Ye therefore **shall be **perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(Amplified Bible) You, therefore, must be perfect **growing into **complete]maturity of godliness in mind and character, having **reached **the proper height of virtue and integrity], as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(Young’s literal translation)
ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who [is] in the heavens is perfect
(New Life Version) You must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
(NIRV)
So be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
(WE) You must be good in every way, as your Father in heaven is good in every way
(NAB) So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect
(Douay-Rheims) Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

and, finally

(Latin Vulgate) estote ergo vos perfecti sicut et Pater vester caelestis perfectus est

 

[Janet_S]

Regarding the interpretation of Matthew 5:48:

(KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Let me know if I am wrong, but this is what I think you are getting at: Your interpretation (of Matthew 5:48) is linked to Hebrews 10:10-14 (because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy) because you see in both of these verses the Protestant doctrine of imputed righteousness—whereby God imputes Christ’s righteousness on the repentant sinner to make that sinner “perfect.” The repentant sinner need do nothing—he is made perfect by Christ’s sacrifice.

My opinion about your interpretation—I think you are reading your Protestant beliefs into the text. Read all of Matthew Chapter 5. Jesus was talking to his disciples. Do you really think he was talking about “imputed righteousness” to them? Would they have had any idea of what this was? No, I think you must look at the context of this verse. Read all of Matthew 5. Jesus’ audience was his disciples, and He was talking about morality. He was essentially saying to his disciples “imitate your heavenly Father.” This is similar to what my mother used to say to me “be a good student like your sister who is a good student.” The Catholic Church seems to think this verse (Matthew 5:48) is Christ’s call to his disciples to a life of holiness since they cited this verse in the CCC section #2013 (Christian Holiness.)

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

You brought up a lot of questions in your last few posts. I won’t answer all of them today, but eventually I will. The first is:

To be or to become, that is the question.

This is in reference to Matthew 5:48

To “become” can mean to “change” or to “grow to be.”

To “be” means that you “are.”
…

(NASB)Therefore you **are to be **perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(The Message) “In a word, what I’m saying is, Grow up. You’re kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. **Live **generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you.”
(New Living Translation)
But you **are to be **perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect
(English Standard Version) You therefore **must be **perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(Contemporary English Version) But you **must always act like **your Father in heaven.
(21st Century KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in Heaven is perfect.
(American Standard Version) Ye therefore **shall be **perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(Amplified Bible) You, therefore, must be perfect **growing into **complete]maturity of godliness in mind and character, having **reached **the proper height of virtue and integrity], as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(Young’s literal translation)
ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who [is] in the heavens is perfect
(New Life Version) You must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
(NIRV)
So be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
(WE) You must be good in every way, as your Father in heaven is good in every way
(NAB) So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect
(Douay-Rheims) Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

and, finally

(Latin Vulgate) estote ergo vos perfecti sicut et Pater vester caelestis perfectus est

“To be or become, that is the question,” you said. Every one of these translations (i imagine event the Latin Vulgate, too?) answers the question: That is, to be perfect (not become perfect) is what Jesus commands you and i to do.

There really is no way around this. You and i must stare this truth straight in the loving eye of Jesus and ask Him what He means. As i’m told Mother Teresa said, “Once you see truth, you cannot unsee it.”

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Regarding the interpretation of Matthew 5:48:

(KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Let me know if I am wrong, but this is what I think you are getting at …

My opinion about your interpretation …

Janet:

You are an extremely bright and witty person. I truly enjoy the dialog with you! However, i must point out two things: (1) i am interested in exploring what you believe about what the Bible teaches. (2) You made a promise to me.

You said that if i explained what i thought Jesus was saying in Matthew 5, you would explain what you think the author of God’s word in Hebrews 10 is saying. I do not believe you were being intentionally disingenuous, so please, if you will, explain what this passage means to you:

And by that will [of God], we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest [Jesus Christ] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

(Hebrews 10:10-14)

There is one question that you said you would answer for me. I’d like to hold you to that promise, for i do not think you were insincere when you made it. The question, i will repeat:

How does the author of Hebrews say, in this passage, you and i are made perfect?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Is it a sin for me to ask the question? Is it wrong for you to answer?

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect …
(1 Peter 3:15)

 

[Janet_S]

Janet:

So, then, how can anyone obey the words of the writer of Hebrews and “be holy”? (Notice that he does not say become holy, rather he says be (right now) holy.)

14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
​

In reference to Hebrews 12:14, you are misreading the passage. You say the writer is saying “be right now holy.” Clearly he is not. In this verse, the words “make every effort” refer to both “to live in peace” and “to be holy.” The sentence wouldn’t make sense otherwise. Therefore, in this translation, the writer is saying “make every effort to be holy.”

I believe you used the NIV translation. Here are some other translations. In the various translations we see the directive to strive, seek, make every effort, try, follow after holiness. In none of these passages do I see the writer say “be holy right now.”

Hebrews 12:14

NIV-- **Make every effort **to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
NASB–Pursue peace with all men, and the **sanctification **without which no one will see the Lord.
MSG–Work at getting along with each other and with God. Otherwise you’ll never get so much as a glimpse of God. Make sure no one gets left out of God’s generosity. Keep a sharp eye out for weeds of bitter discontent. A thistle or two gone to seed can ruin a whole garden in no time. Watch out for the Esau syndrome: trading away God’s lifelong gift in order to satisfy a short-term appetite. You well know how Esau later regretted that impulsive act and wanted God’s blessing—but by then it was too late, tears or no tears.
AMP–Strive to live in peace with everybody and **pursue that ****consecration and holiness **without which no one will [ever] see the Lord.
NLT–Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord
KJV–Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
ESV-- Strive for peace with everyone, and **for the holiness **without which no one will see the Lord
CEV–Try to live at peace with everyone! Live a clean life. If you don’t, you will never see the Lord.
NKJV–Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
KJ21–**Follow **peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord,
ASV–**Follow **after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:
YLT–peace pursue with all, and the separation, apart from which no one shall see the Lord,
DARBY–**Pursue **peace with all, and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord:
NLV–Be at peace with all men. Live a holy life. No one will see the Lord without having that kind of life.
(HCSB)-- Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness —without it no one will see the Lord.
(NIRV)-- Try your best to live in peace with everyone. **Try to be **holy. Without holiness no one will see the Lord.
(WYC)-- **Follow ye **peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see God.
(WE)-- Try to be at peace with all people. And try to be holy. If a person is not holy, he will not see the Lord.
(NIVUK)–
**Make every effort **to live in peace with all men and **to be **holy; without holiness no-one will see the Lord.
(TNIV)-- **Make every effort **to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
(NJB)-- Seek peace with all people, and **the holiness **without which no one can ever see the Lord.
(NAB)-- **Strive **for peace with everyone, and **for that **holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

(Latin Vulgate)-- Pacem **sequimini **cum omnibus, et sanctimoniam, sine qua nemo videbit Deum:​

 

[mikeledes]

Why be good?

Romans 2:6-7

6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
**
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that naturewill reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.**
God Bless,
Michael

 

[Janet_S]

“To be or become, that is the question,” you said. Every one of these translations (i imagine event the Latin Vulgate, too?) answers the question: That is, to be perfect (not become perfect) is what Jesus commands you and i to do.

There really is no way around this. You and i must stare this truth straight in the loving eye of Jesus and ask Him what He means. As i’m told Mother Teresa said, “Once you see truth, you cannot unsee it.”

This is in regard to Matthew 5:48.

So you still insist all these translations imply “be perfect, right now!” Please read them again. I saw a few in the future tense (shall be). Also look at the Amplified Bible and the Message translations.

I’ll get to your other questions later.

 

[Janet_S]

Can I be holy, right now?

My answer to that is no. Hebrews 12:14 tells us that without holiness, we will not see the Lord. From what I have read in Scripture I believe we become holy through a lifelong process.

From your previous posts, you seem to be saying that holiness, perfection, and sinlessness are synonymous. I don’t believe they are.

Holiness is not merely the absence of sin. You can follow all the commandments and avoid sin and still not be holy. Holiness is going one step further. While the Ten Commandments tell us how to avoid sin, the Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3-12) tell us how to be holy.

What is holiness—it is reshaping our thoughts and actions to conform with God’s. We know that “God’s ways are not our ways,” but with His grace, given chiefly through the sacraments, and with our free will cooperation with His grace, we can become holy. I can think of many people who were holy—Pope John Paul II, Mother Teresa, St Francis of Assisi are some of the ones most well known. I am sure there are Protestants who displayed great holiness as well—Corrie ten Boom is one I am familiar with.

If being perfect is becoming exactly like God, of course, none of us ever reach absolute perfection. Still we can approach perfection in this lifetime.

If you haven’t read John Henry Newman’s sermon “Holiness, Necessary for Future Blessedness,” I suggest you do. Newman was one of the most outstanding theologians (of all time) and also one of the best English prose writers of the Victorian age.

newmanreader.org/works/parochial/volume1/sermon1.html

Newman makes these points about the time necessary to cultivate holiness. He also cites the parables of Matthew 22:1-14 and Matthew 25:1-13 as referring to holiness:

“To obtain the gift of holiness is the work of a life. No man will ever be perfect here”

“Can we then at a word change the whole frame and character of our minds? Is not holiness the result of many patient, repeated efforts after obedience, gradually working on us, and first modifying and then changing our hearts? We dare not, of course, set bounds to God’s mercy and power in cases of repentance late in life, even where He has revealed to us the general rule of His moral governance; yet, surely, it is our duty ever to keep steadily before us, and act upon, those general truths which His Holy Word has declared. His Holy Word in various ways warns us, that, as no one will find happiness in heaven, who is not holy, so no one can learn to be so, in a short time, and when he will. It implies it in the text, which names a qualification, which we know in matter of fact does ordinarily take time to gain. It propounds it clearly, though in figure, in the parable of the wedding garment (Matthew 22:1-14), in which inward sanctification is made a condition distinct from our acceptance of the proffer of mercy, and not negligently to be passed over in our thoughts as if a necessary consequence of it; and in that of the ten virgins (Matt 25:1-13), which shows us that we must meet the bridegroom with the oil of holiness, and that it takes time to procure it.”

 

[Janet_S]

Janet:

You are an extremely bright and witty person. I truly enjoy the dialog with you! However, i must point out two things: (1) i am interested in exploring what you believe about what the Bible teaches. (2) You made a promise to me.

You said that if i explained what i thought Jesus was saying in Matthew 5, you would explain what you think the author of God’s word in Hebrews 10 is saying. I do not believe you were being intentionally disingenuous, so please, if you will, explain what this passage means to you:

And by that will [of God], we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest [Jesus Christ] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

(Hebrews 10:10-14)

There is one question that you said you would answer for me. I’d like to hold you to that promise, for i do not think you were insincere when you made it. The question, i will repeat:

How does the author of Hebrews say, in this passage, you and i are made perfect?

Thanks for the compliment. I am enjoying the dialogue too.

I never promised to give an interpretation of Hebrews 10:10-14. I agreed to give my interpretation of Matthew 5:48, and I did this in two different posts.

Since you ask, though, I am happy to give you my interpretation. The book of Hebrews is not the easiest to understand, and, of course, I am not a Bible scholar.

My interpretation: The writer is comparing the Jewish Temple sacrifices (which can never take away sins) to the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. Christ’s one sacrifice did take away sins and thus restored sinful humanity to its perfect state (prior to Adam’s fall). We are made acceptable to God through Christ’s sacrifice. Christ now is the eternal King and Priest, and He has His throne at the right hand of God.

What I do see in this passage–our salvation comes to us because of the merits of Jesus Christ’s Passion and death.

What I don’t see in this passage–a denial that our salvation comes to us through the cooperation of God’s grace and man’s freedom.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Regarding the interpretation of Matthew 5:48:

(KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

…He was essentially saying to his disciples “imitate your heavenly Father.” This is similar to what my mother used to say to me “be a good student like your sister who is a good student.” The Catholic Church seems to think this verse (Matthew 5:48) is Christ’s call to his disciples to a life of holiness since they cited this verse in the CCC section #2013 (Christian Holiness.)

Janet:

Perhaps i was too quick to think you understood the meaning of our loving Savior’s words, “Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.” The danger with a discussion forum like this is that the conversation can become too broad to help us learn what the other believes as we jump from one topic to the next. I’m trying to stay focused on this one idea to learn what you believe and what is the truth.

So, out of respect and consideration for you, i will return to your reply, here, and finish the discussion before we move on to the meaning of other passages. I hope this will be to your satisfaction.

You mentioned in another reply that there is one translation of the Bible (the Revised Standard Version, i think) that uses the words, “shall be perfect”. This, i believe, is an incorrect interpretation of the text, and the fact that all the other translations do not add the word *shall *is evidence of this. I have discovered other errors in translation in the RSV as well, which is why i do not recommend that translation to others.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

**“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”****(Matthew 5:48)**Janet:

You said of Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:48:

…He was essentially saying to his disciples “imitate your heavenly Father.” This is similar to what my mother used to say to me “be a good student like your sister who is a good student.” It appears, then, that you are thinking that to say this

“Be a good student.” is the same as saying this

"Become a good student."Or perhaps i misunderstood you. If i did, please accept my apology and explain how i failed to understand what you were saying.

If i did not fail to comprehend what you were saying, i think we should appeal to an expert to resolve the matter: my wife.

My wife is extremely well read. She is a teacher of teachers to trains other teachers how to best teach students how to read and write. In the state university from which she graduated, she was an English and education major. There was one class nearly all of the English majors feared, which was an advanced English grammar class. I believe she was one of the few students who ever took the class to get an A.

I asked her the meaning of the words, “Be a good student” and whether they meant the same as “Become a good student” and this is what she told me.

“Be a good student” speaks of a state of being. In other words, when one says this one means the person already is a good student and should remain so. “Become a good student” speaks of a state of flux. In other words, when one says this one means the person is not a good student but that one hopes the person shall become one.

My wife teaches me that we use poor grammar every day. When my sons are shouting while in the library and i say, “Be quiet!” my wife points out that the correct thing to say is, “Become quiet!” It is proper grammar, however, to say to them, “Now boys, be quiet” if they are being quiet and i want to encourage them to remain so.

When i now say, “Be quiet” to my sons, i mean two things:

(1) You are in a state of being quiet.(2) Remain in this quiet state.However, when i now say, “Be quiet” to my sons, i do not mean this:

(3) You are not yet in a state of quietness.(4) Strive to become quiet.Now, as i reasoned earlier, Jesus was perfect in all he did and said, so he would never fail to use correct grammar. Therefore, applying these accepted rules of grammar to Jesus’ statement, what do you and i learn, Janet?

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."I trust you will see that Jesus is saying two things and not saying one. What he does mean is this:

(1) You are in a state of being perfect.(2) Remain in this state of perfection.However, what he does not mean is this:

(3) You are not yet in a state of being perfect.(4) Strive to become perfect.I think you were absolutely correct in insisting that we come to an agreement about this before we move on. Do you agree that the accepted rules of English grammar teach us that Jesus meant (1) and (2) but could not have meant (3) and (4)?

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

This is in regard to Matthew 5:48.

So you still insist all these translations imply “be perfect, right now!” Please read them again. I saw a few in the future tense (shall be). Also look at the Amplified Bible and the Message translations.

I’ll get to your other questions later.

Janet:

I like to quote from the NIV simply because it is a translation with which i am familiar. However, i am willing to compromise and use another translation on which we agree is suitable. I do not like The Message or The Amplified Bible translations, simply because they are paraphrases and not actual translations of the extant manuscripts.

How about the New American Bible? This Bible i have in front of me states that it is published by the Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York. It also states that it is: “Authorized by the administrative committee/board of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops and the United States Catholic Conference.”

This translation of the Bible renders the words of our blessed Lord and Savior this way:“So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”(Matthew 5:48, New American Bible)I am willing to consent that this is the correct translation of the text if you are.