Why Be Muslim?

[Sarcelle]

I have interest in many religions but for some reason I find Islam completely uninteresting and unappealing.

I would never be Muslim.

 

[Dorothy]

One big difference to me is that as a Catholic I call the First Person of the Blessed Trinity by such names as “Father” or “Abba”. He is loving and cares about me beyond my imagination. Same as Jesus our Lord, and the Holy Spirit,

Our Lord Jesus Christ teaches us agape love, and when we practice it with the help of His grace it works!

The Holy Spirit is sent to empower us with Love and holy boldness to proclaim the Gospel.

---

People allow theselves to become corrupted. Not the Truth that our Lord Jesus taught, Our Saviour that rose from the dead!

 

[ChineseCatholic]

I have interest in many religions but for some reason I find Islam completely uninteresting and unappealing.

Ironically all the forms of Islam i find interesting are either Dead, Dying, or Heretical fringe ones.

It makes for some interesting discussion on the occasion i encounter a fundamentalist Muslim and I start bringing up the works of a Muslim philosopher who is deemed heretical by mainstream Islam.

Its kind of this “Hey wait…wait …what? How the heck does he know about that.?”

As Catholics, we do owe a debt to the Muslim (and Jewish and Pagan) world in terms of theology, specifically Thomas Aquinas’.

Once upon a time, Mainstream Islam share similar theological categories with us.

Now? Ibn Sina (Avicenna in Latin), the greatest Muslim philosopher of the Middle Ages, praised by Aquinas and many of the Medieval theologians of Jewish and Christian background alike…

…is Considered a Heretic by the Current Iteration of Mainstream islam.

The Kalam Theologians (akin to our Scholastic Theologians), have their backs to the wall by both the Revivalist and Fundamentalist forms of Islam.

Once they are gone… whatever possible dialogue we can have with Sunni Islam will be stuck with the Sufis and the followers of 3 out of 4 of the traditional Madhab schools.

And i don’t know how long they are going to last against the “Islam 1-2-3” the Fundamentalists keep selling…

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have interest in many religions but for some reason I find Islam completely uninteresting and unappealing.

It seems to have a lot of followers though who do find it interesting and appealing.

 

[7_Sorrows]

One thing I have enjoyed is the comparison of Islam and Mormonism.
It would not seem that they would be similar but it is surprising to see what is in common.

Really? How so?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

It seems to have a lot of followers though who do find it interesting and appealing.

Yes. I even know Christian women who converted because it seemed simple, as in straightforward. No Trinity or sacrificial death.

 

[undead_rat]

There certainly are a great many Muslims in the world today, and they must all have reasons, legitimate or not, for holding to that faith.
But this thread does not really seem to beholding true to its title of Why Be Muslim? Rather it seems to be attempting to explore and list reasons why Islam is inferior to Christianity and why one should not be a Muslim.

Some real answers to the thread title might be:
I was born into the faith and all of my family is in it.
I find that it meets my spiritual needs.
Islam is a special community to me.
I find the idea of a “trinity” to be polytheistic and impossible to understand.
I converted to radical Islam because I came to believe that the USA is the number one terrorist nation in the world, and I wanted to oppose the USA through force of arms.

I could go on, but maybe someone else will take a turn at addressing the thread title.

 

[7_Sorrows]

There certainly are a great many Muslims in the world today, and they must all have reasons, legitimate or not, for holding to that faith.
But this thread does not really seem to beholding true to its title of Why Be Muslim? Rather it seems to be attempting to explore and list reasons why Islam is inferior to Christianity and why one should not be a Muslim.

Some real answers to the thread title might be:
I was born into the faith and all of my family is in it.
I find that it meets my spiritual needs.
Islam is a special community to me.
I find the idea of a “trinity” to be polytheistic and impossible to understand.
I converted to radical Islam because I came to believe that the USA is the number one terrorist nation in the world, and I wanted to oppose the USA through force of arms.

I could go on, but maybe someone else will take a turn at addressing the thread title.

I agree. I was hoping to read why people choose Islam or how practicing Muslims feel about their faith and what fulfills them as we would expect on a thread titled Why Be
Catholic or Why Be Jewish?

 

[7_Sorrows]

Yes. I even know Christian women who converted because it seemed simple, as in straightforward. No Trinity or sacrificial death.

There has to be something that draws people to Islam or fulfills them in some way it has remained a major religion for the past 1400 years and might be the #1 world religion in 25 years.

 

[Randy_Carson]

But that’s kind of the point. Our selling point is our Historicity - but that’s our selling point.

Okay. But remember, when evaluating the claims of these religions, one question to ask is: Is it true?

Either the claims by and about Buddha, Muhammed, Joseph Smith and Baha’ullah are true or they are not.

If not, then while these other religions may be interesting philosophies, they don’t don’t carry the weight of Christianity which claims that Jesus died and rose from the grave.

I’ve encountered various faiths who put emphasis in some other aspect of their religious tradition.

I’m guessing they do so because they have to…given that historicity is not their long suit.

I’d compare it to buying a car. We might put emphasis on the Manufacturer, others might put emphasis on the Engine, the Model, or whether or not its possible to… “pimp my ride out” if i might use a bit of American slang i just learned recently.

And some might not want to drive a car at all.

Ahh, but my point is about the way you do it.

So in America you can get things like
**
Young Man Preaching The Gospel at New York Subway **
youtube.com/watch?v=BLEIjZBmmCw

And that jives completely with your protections regarding freedom of speech and the ability to access the public sphere.

Take a society like Japan for instance, where formalized rules of politeness wouldn’t necessarily allow you to just launch into a discussion about how Jesus Christ is your lord and savior.

Well that and the practical realities of

People stuffed onto a train in Tokyo, Japan (train stuffing Tokyo
youtube.com/watch?v=E7kor5nHtZQ

In other words - want to evangelize these people?

Than recognize the conditions on the ground are different from what you deem as the norm and adapt accordingly.

Because if you try to emulate a Semitic-style prophet crying out at the top of his/her lungs , you are liable to turn off people to the Gospel (or in the case of our Muslim counterparts, the Qur’an) in certain places.

I’d compare this to how to Eat Chocolate.

Some people like to get hit with a big bar. Others need it chopped into small breakable bites. And others would just like their chocolate in the form of Coco.

All of which is to say that people have preferences.

Okay. Great. I prefer that the claims of my religion be true…especially if he claims to be God.

 

[ChineseCatholic]

There has to be something that draws people to Islam or fulfills them in some way it has remained a major religion for the past 1400 years and might be the #1 world religion in 25 years.

Michael Mayo hits on a key point though - the Simplicity of the Most Popular form of Islam.

Traditional Islam, with its Juridical and Legalistic side of things, seems to be at least in my eyes, erroding rapidly before this stripped-down “Qur’an-only” style.

The more I look into the matter, the more i probe, the more i discover that its like “Paint By Number” version of Religion.

Take a little of this, take that quote there, and will just ignore the following 15 scholars who disagree with my interpretation - and Tada!

I contrast this with the actual legitimate scholars of the Islamic world who offer up a lament like this:

youtube.com/watch?v=JVuPrzX-KXg

I look at this and turn to my Muslim friends and simply tell it to them straight:

Your version may be Legitimate, it may be Historical. It may be the correct version of Islam for all i know.

…but what does it matter, if there are more people who believe in “Islam 1-2-3”?

Its like… say all Christians except Mormons dropped dead tomorrow.

From the Outsiders Perspective, that would make Christianity = Mormonism.

What’s happening to Islam as a whole right now is a lot less dramatic, but similar nonetheless.

Its why i tend to think it makes more sense to talk about regional versions of Islam.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Here’s an example - these are the Hui/回 Muslim population of China (
2011 Census list about 10 Million of them.)

1.) Do they proselytize they way the Arabians do in Europe and America? - Nope.

2.) Have -any- ever been recruited to a Terrorist Organization? - To my knowledge, Nope.

3.) Do they have a Position on the State of Israel? - Hahaha, i’d be surprised if they could point to it on a Map.

But do they follow all the laws/traditions/rites/etc. that falls within the Mainstream of Sunni Islam? - Yes.

So… what makes my countries’ Muslims different?

Follow the Saudi Money, or in this case, lack thereof.

 

[ChineseCatholic]

Okay. But remember, when evaluating the claims of these religions, one question to ask is: Is it true?

And that’s been the point of what i’ve been saying

What you and I consider to be admissible evidence for the Truth may occupy a lower position in another person’s faith, or may not hold any position at all.

As I said before - we sign up to Christianity partially on the basis of Historical evidence.

That’s part and parcel to our criterion.

Is it part of theirs?

 

[MartinJordan]

And that’s been the point of what i’ve been saying

What you and I consider to be admissible evidence for the Truth may occupy a lower position in another person’s faith, or may not hold any position at all.

As I said before - we sign up to Christianity partially on the basis of Historical evidence.

That’s part and parcel to our criterion.

Is it part of theirs?

I think there is a verse in the Qur’an that mentions “conjecture” when it comes to Jesus and the crucifixion. How is Conjecture proven without evidence for that supposed lack of information?

MJ

 

[ChineseCatholic]

I think there is a verse in the Qur’an that mentions “conjecture” when it comes to Jesus and the crucifixion.

Oh how interesting… couldn’t help but google it.

(1) And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them [the resemblance of 'Îsa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not :

How is Conjecture proven without evidence for that supposed lack of information?

No clue . I’m not an Imam, nor an adherent, nor a juridical scholar.

I can only point out observations, but i’m not a “mechanic” - i only know how scholarship and legal interpretation works in variant versions of Islam that share a philosophical basis with Christianity and Judaism.

I have been trying, searching, for a kind of source document beyond the Qur’an, something akin to a Catechism… instead i find lots and lots and lots of Hadith.

And even the Hadith aren’t weighed uniformly - Strong, Medium, and Weak (as in their probability that Muhammad actually said the Hadith in question). Worse off, each of the four traditional madhab schools accept different Hadith collections.

The Malliki for instance have, by the other 3 schools standards, the “purest” collection of Hadith. The Hanbali’s (the school backed by the Saudi Government) accept all 3 categories.

So the way Imam Malik’s scions look at your question is probably different from the way Hanbali’s students look at it…is different from the why a Salafist (who doesn’t agree with any of the madhabs) would interpret it…

So lets be absolutely honest here - we’d need at least an Imam level scholar trained in ijtihad to address these issues. Otherwise we are liable to get some Western convert to Islam’s half-baked ideas, a half-digested adherents response, or “Islam 1-2-3”'s non-answers.

Something tells me someone like that ain’t going to show up on Catholic Answers Forum.

Actually, How many Muslims actually come here?

Cause all i’ve seen is hasantas…and hasantas and…hasantas

 

[MartinJordan]

Oh how interesting… couldn’t help but google it.

No clue . I’m not an Imam, nor an adherent, nor a juridical scholar.

I can only point out observations, but i’m not a “mechanic” - i only know how scholarship and legal interpretation works in variant versions of Islam that share a philosophical basis with Christianity and Judaism.

I have been trying, searching, for a kind of source document beyond the Qur’an, something akin to a Catechism… instead i find lots and lots and lots of Hadith.

And even the Hadith aren’t weighed uniformly - Strong, Medium, and Weak (as in their probability that Muhammad actually said the Hadith in question). Worse off, each of the four traditional madhab schools accept different Hadith collections.

The Malliki for instance have, by the other 3 schools standards, the “purest” collection of Hadith. The Hanbali’s (the school backed by the Saudi Government) accept all 3 categories.

So the way Imam Malik’s scions look at your question is probably different from the way Hanbali’s students look at it…is different from the why a Salafist (who doesn’t agree with any of the madhabs) would interpret it…

So lets be absolutely honest here - we’d need at least an Imam level scholar trained in ijtihad to address these issues. Otherwise we are liable to get some Western convert to Islam’s half-baked ideas, a half-digested adherents response, or “Islam 1-2-3”'s non-answers.

Something tells me someone like that ain’t going to show up on Catholic Answers Forum.

Actually, How many Muslims actually come here?

Cause all i’ve seen is hasantas…and hasantas and…hasantas

Noted. Thanks.

But let’s make this interesting. Since Jesus is involved here, I’d like to draw your attention to an Imam called Dr. Shabir Ally. ( Dr. Shabir Ally[1] is the president of the Islamic Information & Dawah Centre International in Toronto, Canada. He is a Muslim academic and public speaker on Islam and comparative religion. He is also a prolific debater engaging in regular debates around the world with noted theologians, Christian apologists and renowned philosophers.[2])

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabir_Ally

Now, to my point.

I had asked Hasantas some time ago what Jesus said about fasting. (if I can find that thread I’ll post later) but here what the Imam Dr. Shabir Ally says :

By Imam Shabir Ally: whyislam.org/common-ground/what-jesus-pbuh-said-about-fasting/

He used Matthew 6: 16-18. But my question is , before that verse , Jesus taught how to pray. If Dr. S.A. wants to use this, can he accept what Jesus said about how to pray?

Dr. S.A. ends with : Today Jesus’ true followers are still fasting according to God’s pure instructions. Muslims are the true followers of Jesus and all of God’s messengers.

So, Muslims then should also pray the Our Father. Right?

For info. I asked Hasantas what Jesus said about prayer. He didnt reply me

MJ