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dennisknapp
Guest
What about this “baptism of the Holy Spirit?’”
Peace
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Peace
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dennisknapp
Guest
Believe me, they my be getting preached to, but I would not consider them educated in the Faith. It is one thing to have knowledge, it is quite another to have proper knowledge.
Trust me, I work at a Christian book store (interdenominational) and there is no section of the store that bothers me more then the charismatic section. Examples of books I am talking about are things like: The Believer’s Authority, The Divine Revelation of Heaven, Hell, etc. Not good.
This is not to say that they are not genuine in their faith, but their theology is way off.
Peace
D
DavidB
Guest
Oops, sorry, meant to address that as well with the first response.
The “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is the phrase used to describe the infilling of the Holy Spirit that charismatic/pentecostals experience in which they first begin to speak in tongues or manifest other gifts of the Spirit such as prophecy. In Catholic theology, this “occurs” in baptism or confirmation depending on the circumstances; however, since most Catholics don’t actually experience this infilling of the Spirit upon confirmation, it’s usually something that occurs subsequently as the individual pursues God through something like the Life in the Spirit seminar offered in Catholic Charismatic groups. It represents the empowering of the Spirit to do the work of the Kingdom as experienced by the original disciples on the Day of Pentecost in the book of Acts (chapter 2). The manifestation or end result is that individual can function in any one or more of the nine gifts of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor - tongues, interpretation of tongues, healings, prophecy, faith, discerning of Spirits, miracles, words of knowledge and words of wisdom.
Hope that helps.
David
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DavidB
Guest
If you line up books such as Divine Revelation of Hell against visions of various Catholic seers, what do you think? How about the Marian apparitions and the end-time prophecies?
I suspect there’s enough weirdness in the area of theology and books to go around to all sections.
David
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Contarini
Guest
Most Pentecostals are Trinitarian. The Pentecostals fought this issue in the early 20th century, and they came down on the right side (that is to say, the major Pentecostal denominations did). A large minority of Pentecostals are anti-Trinitarian. You are free to say that they do not truly have the Holy Spirit, but this is hardly relevant to a discussion of Pentecostalism as a whole.
Edwin
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Contarini
Guest
Because it was from Protestants and as a Protestant that I received the Gospel. Whatever issues I may have with any of the various forms of Protestantism, I have never been able to convince myself that I should turn my back on communitied where the Word is preached and the Sacraments are administered. Where the Word and Sacraments are, there is the Church. (And incidentally, I remain unconvinced by claims that Protestants don’t have valid sacraments.) To leave Protestantism would, I fear, be an act of schism almost as bad as that committed by the original Protestants.
Edwin
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Shlemele
Guest
(please excuse spelling, still getting my system back from the grave…)
I am Anababtist because I am a pacifist. I was raised in the church and did branch out to see what other churches (including Catholics) were all about. To me the Catholic church was cold. I stood there and nobody said anything to me. Go to a protestant church and there are prople who have taken up the job of welcoming you into the church and getting you “pluged in” as the term goes.
Reid:
Today most protestant churches arn’t huge, pastors don’t manage the finances, and if you think my church having a basketball gym so the kids in the community can do somthing besides sex and drugs weeknights makes it a country club then I say I’d rather be a country club then a worthless husk any day.
Another thing, My father has been a pastor for the last 30 years. When I was growing up we never had a new car. Vacations were always thrifty, I never had the latest and greatest thing. After fifteen years at the church I grew up in my father chose to leave because some people in the church (a small minority of about 5%) took issue with some of my fathers preaching tequnique. He chose to step down as senior pastor and work for a time in field labor rather than devide the church (no other jobs were available for him). Have you ever seen a priest do that? I remember well about three months after my father left the pastoral position one of the men that my father had seen through highschool and college died in a car acadent. My father was there fifteen minutes after the fire truck and stayed with the famly to help them through the hardest time they would ever face.
I think I and many like myself are protestant because of men and women like my father who live to be Christ to others.
I am Anababtist because I am a pacifist. I was raised in the church and did branch out to see what other churches (including Catholics) were all about. To me the Catholic church was cold. I stood there and nobody said anything to me. Go to a protestant church and there are prople who have taken up the job of welcoming you into the church and getting you “pluged in” as the term goes.
This has to be one of the most infuriating statement I have ever seen.
Today most protestant churches arn’t huge, pastors don’t manage the finances, and if you think my church having a basketball gym so the kids in the community can do somthing besides sex and drugs weeknights makes it a country club then I say I’d rather be a country club then a worthless husk any day.
Another thing, My father has been a pastor for the last 30 years. When I was growing up we never had a new car. Vacations were always thrifty, I never had the latest and greatest thing. After fifteen years at the church I grew up in my father chose to leave because some people in the church (a small minority of about 5%) took issue with some of my fathers preaching tequnique. He chose to step down as senior pastor and work for a time in field labor rather than devide the church (no other jobs were available for him). Have you ever seen a priest do that? I remember well about three months after my father left the pastoral position one of the men that my father had seen through highschool and college died in a car acadent. My father was there fifteen minutes after the fire truck and stayed with the famly to help them through the hardest time they would ever face.
I think I and many like myself are protestant because of men and women like my father who live to be Christ to others.
D
dennisknapp
Guest
Shlemele said:
Welcome back, Shlemele.
I do not doubt you father’s faith and impact on your life and the life of those in your community. I know many great Protestant people and they have nothing but my uttmost respect.
One answer that I have been hoping to read is that people are Protestant because they believe it to be true.
For me its not about where you were raised or your spiritual background (although this is very important). For me its about Truth. We should seek the Truth and live it accordingly. This is the only reason to believe anything.
Again, welcome back. Have you had a chance to read over that materal from the other thread?
Peace
K
kaycee
Guest
AMEN! I believe it is TRUE! After 27 years of being a Catholic, I heard a clear presentation of the Gospel of Grace from a Baptist friend and the Lord opened my eyes and I believed with my whole being. I believe it is TRUE from a changed life of non interest in spiritual matters, to an insatiable thirst for the Word of God. I believe its true cause the Bible is true. God changed me, I hate my sin and want to tell others about the Savior. I can see all the wonderful things God has done for me and to me!.
E
E.E.N.S
Guest
I am glad to hear of you love for God’s written Word! Truly I am…and I will pray that someday the Spirit of Truth will set you free from the deception that you are in with regards to His Body, His Bride and His oral Word, and all the other glorious truths that complete our Faith!AMEN! I believe it is TRUE! After 27 years of being a Catholic, I heard a clear presentation of the Gospel of Grace from a Baptist friend and the Lord opened my eyes and I believed with my whole being. I believe it is TRUE from a changed life of non interest in spiritual matters, to an insatiable thirst for the Word of God. I believe its true cause the Bible is true. God changed me, I hate my sin and want to tell others about the Savior. I can see all the wonderful things God has done for me and to me!.
My story is the same as yours but in reverse…and add a few years of study.
A
Angainor
Guest
On my way:
On my way:
I don’t think they were “bad people”, just regular people. God built his Church on regular people. This just seems a stark contrast to today’s Catholicism which is built on Religious Elites. That is just an observation of mine.
On my way:
Common? Humble? Do these two words describe the bishop of Rome, vicar of Christ, successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, primate of Italy, patriarch of the West, archbishop and metropolitan of the Roman Province, sovereign of Vatican City, and Servant of the Servants of God?
O
On_my_way
Guest
All you did was post the Popes duties. Look at our Holy Father Pope John Paul II, wasn’t He a Common person and a Humble person who went thru a lot as a young Man. Don’t hate because we do it the right way.
J
johnshelby
Guest
ok… i was raised in a Baptist church, but i was never baptised…
i am now Catholic, and have been baptised… i was 50 before i
was baptised…
i’m from Alabama also, but in my area of the state there are
quite a few Catholic churchs… when i was growing up, i
believed all the usual Catholic-awful-isms…
they all drink, cause they use wine not grape juice in church…
they can do anything they want, and the priest will forgive them…
they are rich, look at the church…
they worship the pope…
they worship Mary…
ect…
but, a lot of that was based on ignorance, that was in fact,
the Catholic church’s fault… (( don’t throw anything ))
at that time a lot of the services
were in latin… i mean… i didn’t know anyone who spoke latin,
so those Catholics could have been saying anything… and the
robes they wore and sprinkling that water around, and waving
that little thingie with the smoke comming out… and the pope…
looking like a king, having his own country, people kissing his
ring… bishops and archbishops… priests and nuns… mysterious
language, mysterious rites, mysterious rules that only they
knew… and they had their own bible…
face it… that is a lot of ‘stuff’ for a Baptist kid, going to a wood
frame church where you heard every week that you were going
to hell unless you were saved, and no matter how much you
believed, you heard it the next week too…
once i started reading and learned something of the Catholic
church, and it’s beliefs, i came to realize something that i’d
have never believed, and that is… i’m a Catholic…
i’d never give up what i learned, and what i got from the church
of my youth… but i thank God every day i found the Church…
and one last point, maybe the lack of enthusiasim people
talk about is because… something worked
for, or found after a lifetime of searching, is probably gonna be
appreciated a lot more than something that was yours from
birth… i make the sign of the cross all the time… lol i’m
begging for people to ask me if i’m Catholic, so i can tell 'em…
yes, i can be a blabbermouth… lol
i am now Catholic, and have been baptised… i was 50 before i
was baptised…
i’m from Alabama also, but in my area of the state there are
quite a few Catholic churchs… when i was growing up, i
believed all the usual Catholic-awful-isms…
they all drink, cause they use wine not grape juice in church…
they can do anything they want, and the priest will forgive them…
they are rich, look at the church…
they worship the pope…
they worship Mary…
ect…
but, a lot of that was based on ignorance, that was in fact,
the Catholic church’s fault… (( don’t throw anything ))
at that time a lot of the services
were in latin… i mean… i didn’t know anyone who spoke latin,
so those Catholics could have been saying anything… and the
robes they wore and sprinkling that water around, and waving
that little thingie with the smoke comming out… and the pope…
looking like a king, having his own country, people kissing his
ring… bishops and archbishops… priests and nuns… mysterious
language, mysterious rites, mysterious rules that only they
knew… and they had their own bible…
face it… that is a lot of ‘stuff’ for a Baptist kid, going to a wood
frame church where you heard every week that you were going
to hell unless you were saved, and no matter how much you
believed, you heard it the next week too…
once i started reading and learned something of the Catholic
church, and it’s beliefs, i came to realize something that i’d
have never believed, and that is… i’m a Catholic…
i’d never give up what i learned, and what i got from the church
of my youth… but i thank God every day i found the Church…
and one last point, maybe the lack of enthusiasim people
talk about is because… something worked
for, or found after a lifetime of searching, is probably gonna be
appreciated a lot more than something that was yours from
birth… i make the sign of the cross all the time… lol i’m
begging for people to ask me if i’m Catholic, so i can tell 'em…
yes, i can be a blabbermouth… lol
S
Sherlock
Guest
A few questions, kaycee:AMEN! I believe it is TRUE! After 27 years of being a Catholic, I heard a clear presentation of the Gospel of Grace from a Baptist friend and the Lord opened my eyes and I believed with my whole being. I believe it is TRUE from a changed life of non interest in spiritual matters, to an insatiable thirst for the Word of God. I believe its true cause the Bible is true. God changed me, I hate my sin and want to tell others about the Savior. I can see all the wonderful things God has done for me and to me!.
- since you were once a Catholic, what argument from your Baptist friend convinced you that the Eucharist was only symbolic? Or did you not believe, as a Catholic, in Jesus’ Real Presence?
- The Bible is a Catholic book—it was the Catholic Church who compiled the canon. Why do you think that the Catholic Church and the Bible could ever be in conflict?
- You mention the “Gospel of Grace”—how does this differ from grace as understood by Catholics?
S
Shlemele
Guest
Sorry, the post was more of a response to the remark about pastors. As far as truth goes I believe Christ calles us to a life of peace. The Mennonite church is one of the few pacifist churches so as far as truth goes, yes I believe that my church has a “true” (to use your terminology) understanding of what it means to be like christ in that respect.
A
amanda_nicole82
Guest
Why do I attend the Baptist church I attend? Because I am a Christian who loves the Lord and loves to follow His Word. Attending the church I attend draws me close to the Lord because of the Christian fellowship, and insightful sermons from my pastor help me to understand God’s Word. No doubt the Catholic church draws some Christians closer to the Lord and I assume that is why they attend their church.
J
johnpaullover
Guest
Dead on!
C
Curious
Guest
A brief hijack: I would like to thank Iambic Pen for his fabulous eloquence, something I heartily lack. :clapping: Way to word things!
Hijack over.
Hijack over.
K
kaycee
Guest
As a Catholic i did believe in transubstantiation.
I was convinced it is a metaphor for belief. John writes about many metaphors that Jesus used. Jesus is “the light of the world,” (8:12), the Good shephard (10:11) Jesus claimed to be he door of the sheep in John 10, and the “true vine” (15:1) John likes to use metaphors.
in John 6 we see the crowd who were fed by the feeding of the 5,000 miracle follow Jesus looking for another handout. Jesus knows there true motivation in verse 26
John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
The crowd who wanted another free meal bring up that Moses fed them in the desert and want to know if Jesus can too. The crowd introduces the bread theme and Jesus uses that to explain Belief in those terms as well.
John 6:34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.” 35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
Belief is equated to satisfying hunger and thirst, thus explaining the metaphor.
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Matt 26:29 "But I say to you, **I will not drink of this fruit of the vine ** from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.
Jesus is not drinking blood but the fruit of the vine.
1 Cor 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.
Paul does not say body and blood but bread. He calls it a proclamation of the Lord’s death.
Peace <><
J
johnpaullover
Guest
Thank you for being concerned about us catholics.AMEN! I believe it is TRUE! After 27 years of being a Catholic, I heard a clear presentation of the Gospel of Grace from a Baptist friend and the Lord opened my eyes and I believed with my whole being. I believe it is TRUE from a changed life of non interest in spiritual matters, to an insatiable thirst for the Word of God. I believe its true cause the Bible is true. God changed me, I hate my sin and want to tell others about the Savior. I can see all the wonderful things God has done for me and to me!.
I had the exact oppisite journey, but with many similar aspects
So did I.
That is exactly what happened when I converted from Protestant to Catholic!
What I find hard to believe is that you left the church because of a clear presentation of the Gospel.
I mean,
If I were to say to you.
“All it takes to go to hell is one mortal sin, but when you confess it, Jesus Christ comes with his precious blood and washes it away”
What would your reaction be?
God’s Grace,
JPL
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