Why become Catholic?

[CHESTERTONRULES]

A friend recently asked me, what applicable difference would it make if one were a devout Catholic or a devout Protestant? Suppose that 2 people were either of these. In application, both spend their lives living for Christ but they have different understandings of this. For one, the Christian life is centered around the Eucharist and for the other the Christian life is centered around the Scriptures. But in application, neither one is better than the other. Both are getting to heaven.

My question is: What significant difference is there between a devout and faithful Catholic and Protestant? The Catholic Church does not teach that devout Protestants are going to hell but rather that Christ’s faithful too (regardless of denomination) can go to heaven.

As a convert to Catholicism, I believe that it is easier to follow Jesus for an entire life as a Catholic because we are provided the fullness of Truth and the graces of the sacraments.

Protestants are more likely to fall victim to pride and self delusion, IMO.

 

[Della]

Indulgences, Mary as co-redemptrix, treasury of merit teachings, purgatory, papal supremacy and universal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, I think the teachings have changed during the last 2,000 years just a touch… Go ask the Orthodox…

The Orthodox are not the standard by which one judges Church teachings–they are not a unified body but also believe different things based on each of their patriarchs. The Church has NOT changed it’s doctrines. I chose the word doctrine quite carefully. A doctrine is an ordinary teaching of the Church. A dogma is a doctrine that has been defined as such and must be believed by all Catholics. Therefore, a dogma is not a “change” but a more clear definition of a doctrine that also must be believed. Those who argue that the Church has changed its teachings are falsely using this distinction to try to make their case, but on close examination, that claim doesn’t hold water.`

And the Catholic Church does indeed teach that it has the monopoly on truth. That’s what infallibility and teaching against moral relativism, a concrete catechism, and an infallible pope/magisterium is all about, right? To not have a monopoly on truth would imply that infallibility is a part time reality. Yes, the Church teaches that all churches possess kernels of truth but the Catholic Church possesses it all in its fullness.

No, that’s not what infallibility means. You are defining infallibility wrongly and then trying to tell us that your wrong definition is what the Church states for itself. You need to get your definitions straight instead of relying on such sloppy reasoning. What the Church teaches is that what it teaches is true–that is not at all the same thing as saying it has a monopoly on truth. You seem to want to believe it does, though. Why that is only you can say, but let’ s not pretend that you are doing anything other than stating these things according to your own way of thinking and not as the Church itself claims. Okay?

The Church has been in existence since 33 AD. It has been defining/clarifying it’s beliefs/what it knows about God, itself and humanity all those years. It has not codified everything it teaches as dogma nor has it made statements about things not within its purview. It has taught what Christ taught it, as he commanded it to do. That kind of faithfulness in the teeth of the vagaries of time, cultures, czars, emperors, tyrants, wars, isms, etc., etc., etc. is nothing less than miraculous. It’s easy to misunderstand and misstate the teachings and mission of the Church. It’s much more challenging to actually believe and live by them.

 

[Della]

But there are any number of protestants who fully believe that have that. My biggest problem with those Catholics that make this argument is than why is their anything to mass? Why not just a drive up window where a priest can administer the eucharist, give a short blessing and send you on your way?

The Eucharist is the center of our faith, but it’s not the whole, as I’m sure you know. No one here is saying it’s all there is nor all that needs to be believed/practiced. It’s just, in answer to the OP’s question, the thing that first drew many of us to the Catholic faith.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Unfortunately the inverse is true as well. Catholics can easily fall into a sense of security in that they’re “following the rules” going to Mass, observing days of obligation, going to Confession every month or week, praying rosaries, and saying the right words yet not living the Christian life in their behavior, not studying the Gospels, not living with a sense of mission, but just following rules. I know several Catholics who get to the point where they so arrogantly proclaim: “I’m following all the rules. I use NFP, I go to Mass. I go to Confession. I am a practicing Catholic. That guy over there is a cafeteria Catholic poser who isn’t a REAL Catholic. He’s imperiling his salvation. Good thing I’m in good!”

It’s a Pharisaic sentiment. So that is just as dangerous as the Protestant pride…Catholic pride. Both arrogant and dangerous IMO.

As a convert to Catholicism, I believe that it is easier to follow Jesus for an entire life as a Catholic because we are provided the fullness of Truth and the graces of the sacraments.

Protestants are more likely to fall victim to pride and self delusion, IMO.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Unfortunately the inverse is true as well. Catholics can easily fall into a sense of security in that they’re “following the rules” going to Mass, observing days of obligation, going to Confession every month or week, praying rosaries, and saying the right words yet not living the Christian life in their behavior, not studying the Gospels, not living with a sense of mission, but just following rules. I know several Catholics who get to the point where they so arrogantly proclaim: “I’m following all the rules. I use NFP, I go to Mass. I go to Confession. I am a practicing Catholic. That guy over there is a cafeteria Catholic poser who isn’t a REAL Catholic. He’s imperiling his salvation. Good thing I’m in good!”

It’s a Pharisaic sentiment. So that is just as dangerous as the Protestant pride…Catholic pride. Both arrogant and dangerous IMO.

That’s a good point. Pride is a danger to all of us.

However, when it comes to doctrines and practices, I think it is safer to follow the Church than to “lean on your own understanding.”

 

[Della]

That’s a good point. Pride is a danger to all of us.

However, when it comes to doctrines and practices, I think it is safer to follow the Church than to “lean on your own understanding.”

Definitely. The hypocrisy of others (or even our own) should never be an excuse for not believing in/following the teachings of Christ’s Church.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Great point. It’s amazing how much, though, of our “own understanding” Catholics have expressed to me lately in threads that have been proven NOT to be Catholic teachings but their own spin! I’ve encountered the same in Protestant circles. Lack of catechesis and book smarts is dangerous, man!

That’s a good point. Pride is a danger to all of us.

However, when it comes to doctrines and practices, I think it is safer to follow the Church than to “lean on your own understanding.”

 

[Soldier_X]

“Holy thread necromancy, Batman!”

"Precisely, Robin."

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Della]

Great point. It’s amazing how much, though, of our “own understanding” Catholics have expressed to me lately in threads that have been proven NOT to be Catholic teachings but their own spin! I’ve encountered the same in Protestant circles. Lack of catechesis and book smarts is dangerous, man!

If you are referring to me, I have a B. A. in Bible and religious education. What do you have? :compcoff:

 

[Soldier_X]

If you are referring to me, I have a B. A. in Bible and religious education. What do you have? :compcoff:

At the risk of speaking for my friend Gurney, there’s a really good chance that he’s not referring to you.

 

[Della]

At the risk of speaking for my friend Gurney, there’s a really good chance that he’s not referring to you.

I hope not. But if he had any doubts as to the veracity of my statements I thought I’d mention my credentials. Now back to the topic at hand…

 

[simspt]

Much of what I took for granted as a former Protestant like the Catholic Creeds, doctrines of the trinity and incarnation and canon of scripture is the result of the Catholic Church that made judgements about those matters. For me personally I thought it would be wise to err on the side of the Catholic Church that has historical and theological continuity with the first generations of Christians that followed Christ’s Apostles. After reading the Church fathers I became convinced the early Church was more Catholic than Protestant.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Are you seriously this pompous and arrogant that you need to tell everyone on here your college credentials? give me a break!? And a B.A. is not exactly a Phd. so relax there, Professor!

From reading your posts, the Bible is not foremost your evidence or argument, but rather a Church that can never be wrong about anything that can define dogmas 1,900 years after the fact, a Church that claims infallibility for itself so, in circular reasoning can do no wrong so even if you saw it commit false teachings you’d refuse to accept it anyway based on self-fullfilling prophesies.

I have a B.A. as well, Della. I guess that makes us both geniuses…

And incidentally, my friend Soldier X was correct; I was NOT addressing you so why you had to bust out the cat claws and college parchment in a sort of preemptive strike is beyond me?

I happen to know folks I work with who have masters degrees and Phd’s and they’re some of the most ignorant folks I’ve ever met. At the same time I know people who didn’t even go to college that have reasoning skills, logic, and a wealth of knowledge far in excess of these bloviating college grads. I don’t wear my degree as a badge of honor. It was merely a necessary step in the career direction I traveled. It’s not a credential for intelligence, trust me. Any boob, IMO, can get a B.A. or an M.A.

If you are referring to me, I have a B. A. in Bible and religious education. What do you have? :compcoff:

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, really put that guy in his place with that B.A.!

I hope not. But if he had any doubts as to the veracity of my statements I thought I’d mention my credentials. Now back to the topic at hand…

 

[Della]

Yeah, really put that guy in his place with that B.A.!

You were the one who told us that Catholics on CAF put their own spin on Church teaching. I presented my credentials. Your response is an emoticon and a sneer. Who do you think readers are going to take more seriously?

The topic is why become Catholic. That answer is because it is Christ’s Church in which we are encouraged to face ourselves in truth and be transformed into the image of Christ. In order to make that possible Christ established sacraments within his Church and a teaching authority so we could know the truth. That is Church teaching–always has been, always will be.

If you can’t/won’t accept it, that’s up to you, but don’t go accusing us Catholics of putting our own spin on Church teaching merely because you don’t agree with it/don’t wish to know what the Church actually teaches or whatever your personal hang up might be.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Ah the drama thickens! I teach sixth grade and don’t see this much drama during the day!
If you can’t see spin being attributed to Catholic teaching in CAF, you need to get a Master’s Degree or bifocles! lol I read a poster the other day saying that Jesus can’t pray for us or intercede for us, but Mary can. You don’t find that spinning?

I’ve heard bad theology from Catholics that are NOT official teachings of Catholicism many a time in here. Apparently you’re a newer poster or just don’t read as much of these as I do?

And I still find it funny that you feel you need to present credentials to people. Your argument, which I find thin, should speak for itself without needing to prove who you are, what you have, or where you come from.

You don’t need to present the Matthew 16:18 papal claims and definitions of what Catholicism is, Della. I am fully aware. Thanks!

You were the one who told us that Catholics on CAF put their own spin on Church teaching. I presented my credentials. Your response is an emoticon and a sneer. Who do you think readers are going to take more seriously?

The topic is why become Catholic. That answer is because it is Christ’s Church in which we are encouraged to face ourselves in truth and be transformed into the image of Christ. In order to make that possible Christ established sacraments within his Church and a teaching authority so we could know the truth. That is Church teaching–always has been, always will be.

If you can’t/won’t accept it, that’s up to you, but don’t go accusing us Catholics of putting our own spin on Church teaching merely because you don’t agree with it/don’t wish to know what the Church actually teaches or whatever your personal hang up might be.

 

[Emily01]

The Catholic Church does not teach that devout Protestants are going to hell but rather that Christ’s faithful too (regardless of denomination) can go to heaven.

This is not true. The Catholic Church dogmatically states that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:

“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

Why become Catholic?

The Catholic Church is the one true church established by Jesus Christ for our salvation.

 

[rinnie]

A friend recently asked me, what applicable difference would it make if one were a devout Catholic or a devout Protestant? Suppose that 2 people were either of these. In application, both spend their lives living for Christ but they have different understandings of this. For one, the Christian life is centered around the Eucharist and for the other the Christian life is centered around the Scriptures. But in application, neither one is better than the other. Both are getting to heaven.

My question is: What significant difference is there between a devout and faithful Catholic and Protestant? The Catholic Church does not teach that devout Protestants are going to hell but rather that Christ’s faithful too (regardless of denomination) can go to heaven.

I think the sacraments. I believe the Protestant faith only recognizes 2 or them.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Depends on which strand of Protestantism you’re talking about. Generally you’re correct-two. Anglo-Catholics of some different brands believe in seven.

I think the sacraments. I believe the Protestant faith only recognizes 2 or them.

 

[Emily01]

I think the sacraments. I believe the Protestant faith only recognizes 2 or them.

It’s very simple. Outside the Catholic Church there is absolutely no salvation. This is Catholic dogma.