Why Blame The Pope For The Spanish Inquisition, The Holocaust, And Every Other War That Has Been?

[churchcamefirst]

I am tired of people blaming the pope for everything under the sun. The Spanish Inquisition was a government war, Queen Isabella and her husband, devout Roman Catholics, wanted everyone Catholic, yet everyone blames the pope for forcing Jews to be Catholics.
Second, the Holocaust was not the pope’s fault neither. That was also government, yet people also blame the pope for this one, although he helped save a million Jews. People must stop blaming the Catholic church and it’s leader for every atrocity known to man.
Yet they simply don’t really know what happened, and then say it was the pope’s fault.
For example, anti-Catholics, agnostics, atheists all say, “well, what about the Spanish Inquisition?” Well, not only was it 700 years ago, it was a government issue.
These things that happen have nothing to do with the church Jesus founded. Jesus Christ still founded the Catholic church, in spite of everything that has happened over the past 2,000 years.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

G.K. Chesterton agrees with you.

In fact he points out that those who are the first to race to accuse the Church of all sorts of unspeakable evil are not only guilty of worse evils in their own lives (sanctioned by their religious leaders but not considered’ religion’ per se, of course. . . a standard they insist on for themselves but deny to Catholics), but when it suits them they actually praise their own wrongdoing as morally right, necessary, or at least ‘human’.

Read the chapter “Who are the Conspirators” in his “The Thing” (1929).

 

[tGette]

I am tired of people blaming the pope for everything under the sun. The Spanish Inquisition was a government war, Queen Isabella and her husband, devout Roman Catholics, wanted everyone Catholic, yet everyone blames the pope for forcing Jews to be Catholics.
Second, the Holocaust was not the pope’s fault neither. That was also government, yet people also blame the pope for this one, although he helped save a million Jews. People must stop blaming the Catholic church and it’s leader for every atrocity known to man.
Yet they simply don’t really know what happened, and then say it was the pope’s fault.
For example, anti-Catholics, agnostics, atheists all say, “well, what about the Spanish Inquisition?” Well, not only was it 700 years ago, it was a government issue.
These things that happen have nothing to do with the church Jesus founded. Jesus Christ still founded the Catholic church, in spite of everything that has happened over the past 2,000 years.

Amen!

You kind of stole (that’s right…you broke the 7th Commandment…lol!) an idea for a thread I had.

People need to give the Pope a break!

You try keeping God’s Church in line!

This is one man…who is doing what is in his power, by the help of God’s grace, to shepherd a massive flock of Christians.

I’d like to see anyone do this “job” impeccably.

Poor Papa Benedicto…

 

[Katie1723]

Seems to me, the Pope has been blamed for many things since the good Lord bestowed that honor on Peter.

Kathy

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I am tired of people blaming the pope for everything under the sun. The Spanish Inquisition was a government war, Queen Isabella and her husband, devout Roman Catholics, wanted everyone Catholic, yet everyone blames the pope for forcing Jews to be Catholics.
Second, the Holocaust was not the pope’s fault neither. That was also government, yet people also blame the pope for this one, although he helped save a million Jews. People must stop blaming the Catholic church and it’s leader for every atrocity known to man.
Yet they simply don’t really know what happened, and then say it was the pope’s fault.
For example, anti-Catholics, agnostics, atheists all say, “well, what about the Spanish Inquisition?” Well, not only was it 700 years ago, it was a government issue.
These things that happen have nothing to do with the church Jesus founded. Jesus Christ still founded the Catholic church, in spite of everything that has happened over the past 2,000 years.

But gee, where is the fun then in being anti-Catholic? If people quit being unreasonable and start to have to do a little due dilligence to explain why they hate the Catholic Church, rather than tiliting at wind mills and beating the metaphorical hell out of straw men, well… They might start to have to think.

So it is easier to blame the pope for these sorts of things (and I have heard more and heard worse yet!) than to have to, I dunno, pick up a book, learn some history, find out how the Church was really involved in those periods, maybe even actually learn what the Church teaches on a few things…

That just takes too much time and effort for most people who don’t want to ruin their “good arguments” with facts!

 

[ralphinal]

The pope would not be blaimed for everything if he would disband the Illuminati, own up to the new world order, show how opus dei and Jesuits are behind everything wrong in the world, and stop eating kittens and puppies.

Did I leave anythign out?

 

[PerryJ]

I never hear that we started the scientific method, the rule of law or the university system. That many of the sciences we have now were started by priest. For example the Jesuit were the first to study earthquakes. We pulled man out of the dark ages via science. We never hear that we are the largest charitable organization in the world. I could go on; but, all we hear are negatives. I do not believe people realize how much good the Catholic Church has done and still does.

 

[LDNCatholic]

The pope would not be blaimed for everything if he would disband the Illuminati, own up to the new world order, show how opus dei and Jesuits are behind everything wrong in the world, and stop eating kittens and puppies.

Did I leave anythign out?

Hes also a reptilian overlord.

Oh and he steps on ducklings for fun.

 

[PerryJ]

Hes also a reptilian overlord.

Oh and he steps on ducklings for fun.

That is only unrepentent ducklings! Repentant ducklings are cooked, put in glaze sauce and eaten at big elaborate parties!

 

[k5thbeatle]

The Pope??? Oh, I thought it was Bush’s fault!

 

[ralphinal]

The Pope??? Oh, I thought it was Bush’s fault!

Oh, it is, but the pope is why he is there in the first place

 

[RobHom]

The pope would not be blaimed for everything if he would disband the Illuminati, own up to the new world order, show how opus dei and Jesuits are behind everything wrong in the world, and stop eating kittens and puppies.

Did I leave anythign out?

Yep, the “Vatican Hit Squad”…you know the ones…they look like 80 to 90 year old Nuns, but are really highly trained “ninjas”…

 

[RobHom]

I never hear that we started the scientific method, the rule of law or the university system. That many of the sciences we have now were started by priest. For example the Jesuit were the first to study earthquakes. We pulled man out of the dark ages via science. We never hear that we are the largest charitable organization in the world. I could go on; but, all we hear are negatives. I do not believe people realize how much good the Catholic Church has done and still does.

You are not likely to ever hear about the good that the Church and its members do worldwide… because for non-Catholics to praise the Church and its good works…destroys the very barriers they endeavor to erect.

How many non-Catholics know who and what the Saint Vincent DePaul society is? Much less what they do, and for whom?

How many non-Catholics have any idea exactly who and what “Jesuits” (Society of Jesus) are? I would suggest that possibly fewer than 1 in 10,000 have any idea.

Here’s some interesting reading regarding the Jesuits: mb-soft.com/believe/text/jesuit.htm

Sadly…many people, even after reaching adulthood, need to have a “boogey-man” under the bed or in the closet…or somewhere to blame for all the ills of the world. As the old saying goes: "Ignorance is bliss!"

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am tired of people blaming the pope for everything under the sun. The Spanish Inquisition was a government war, Queen Isabella and her husband, devout Roman Catholics, wanted everyone Catholic, yet everyone blames the pope for forcing Jews to be Catholics.

**They petitioned Sixtus IV, the then Pope, for an Inquisition. Inquisitions were for enquiring into allegations of errors in faith - which is most emphatically the Pope’s concern. They did not supply the ecclesiastics needed for such enquiries: the Pope had to. **​

**It is an evasion to claim the Pope was not involved. He had to be, because only the Papacy could supply the theological basis & ecclesiastical personnel required for the institution. Laity - such as monarchs - had no competence to do so, & neither did the Cortes. or any other Spanish organ of government. For ecclesiastical juridiction in such matters, only the Papacy was the competent authority. That the Inquisition in Spain **employed many lay familiares does not change this. Heresy could be a political offence only because it was first of all an ecclesiastical crime. The legal precedents for Inquisitorial action were Church matters. The procedure was ****that approved by the Popes. Jurisdiction in heresy cases outside Spain - in a Spanish possession such as Sicily - required Papal approval. The Popes were the legal source for the use of torture & the death by burning. **

**The entire attempt to relieve the Papacy of all responsibility is not only bad history; it betrays a desire to shift the blame for something felt to be blameworthy. The Popes would be astonished to hear they had had no part in the Spanish Inquisition; & probably greatly offended. **

**To approach the issue with the mind of an apologist is fatal to the honest study of history. **

Second, the Holocaust was not the pope’s fault neither. That was also government, yet people also blame the pope for this one, although he helped save a million Jews. People must stop blaming the Catholic church and it’s leader for every atrocity known to man.
Yet they simply don’t really know what happened, and then say it was the pope’s fault.
For example, anti-Catholics, agnostics, atheists all say, “well, what about the Spanish Inquisition?” Well, not only was it 700 years ago, it was a government issue.
These things that happen have nothing to do with the church Jesus founded. Jesus Christ still founded the Catholic church, in spite of everything that has happened over the past 2,000 years.

 

[churchcamefirst]

**They petitioned Sixtus IV, the then Pope, for an Inquisition. Inquisitions were for enquiring into allegations of errors in faith - which is most emphatically the Pope’s concern. They did not supply the ecclesiastics needed for such enquiries: the Pope had to. **​

It is an evasion to claim the Pope was not involved. He had to be, because only the Papacy could supply the theological basis & ecclesiastical personnel required for the institution. Laity - such as monarchs - had no competence to do so, & neither did the Cortes. or any other Spanish organ of government. For ecclesiastical juridiction in such matters, only the Papacy was the competent authority. That the Inquisition in Spain employed many lay familiares** does not change this. Heresy could be a political offence only because it was first of all an ecclesiastical crime. The legal precedents for Inquisitorial action were Church matters. The procedure was **that approved by the Popes. Jurisdiction in heresy cases outside Spain - in a Spanish possession such as Sicily - required Papal approval. The Popes were the legal source for the use of torture & the death by burning. **

**The entire attempt to relieve the Papacy of all responsibility is not only bad history; it betrays a desire to shift the blame for something felt to be blameworthy. **The Popes would be astonished to hear they had had no part in the Spanish Inquisition; & probably greatly offended.

**To approach the issue with the mind of an apologist is fatal to the honest study of history. **

In truth, the Inquisition brought order, justice and compassion to combat rampant Secular and popular persecutions of heretics.
England expelled all Jews in 1290.
France did the same in 1306.
Yet in spain, Jews thrived at every level of society.
The image brought here by Gottle of Geer, a Catholic, is a useful one for those who have little love for the Catholic church.
One of the most enduring myths of the Inquisition is that it was a tool of oppression imposed on unwilling Europeans by a power hungry church.
Nothing could be more wrong.

 

[churchcamefirst]

**Gottle of Geer, I think you should read about David Goldstein’s book about the truth on the Spanish Inquisition. He converted to Catholicism in 1955.
He was named a Knight of St. Gregory.

THE ABUSE CANNOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE CHURCH HERSELF.

Pope Sixtus defended the faith, it was their duty. The Inquisitor’s job had been to establish the Juridicial facts in each case, and if, as a result, an individual were judged as heretic.
The government’s job had been to EXACT PUNISHMENT from that person, up to and including death.**

 

[Nickkname]

You are not likely to ever hear about the good that the Church and its members do worldwide… because for non-Catholics to praise the Church and its good works…destroys the very barriers they endeavor to erect.

How many non-Catholics know who and what the Saint Vincent DePaul society is? Much less what they do, and for whom?

How many non-Catholics have any idea exactly who and what “Jesuits” (Society of Jesus) are? I would suggest that possibly fewer than 1 in 10,000 have any idea.

Here’s some interesting reading regarding the Jesuits: mb-soft.com/believe/text/jesuit.htm

Sadly…many people, even after reaching adulthood, need to have a “boogey-man” under the bed or in the closet…or somewhere to blame for all the ills of the world. As the old saying goes: "Ignorance is bliss!"

Is the DePaul society the one that ransoms slaves?

 

[Nickkname]

I am tired of people blaming the pope for everything under the sun. The Spanish Inquisition was a government war, Queen Isabella and her husband, devout Roman Catholics, wanted everyone Catholic, yet everyone blames the pope for forcing Jews to be Catholics.
Second, the Holocaust was not the pope’s fault neither. That was also government, yet people also blame the pope for this one, although he helped save a million Jews. People must stop blaming the Catholic church and it’s leader for every atrocity known to man.
Yet they simply don’t really know what happened, and then say it was the pope’s fault.
For example, anti-Catholics, agnostics, atheists all say, “well, what about the Spanish Inquisition?” Well, not only was it 700 years ago, it was a government issue.
These things that happen have nothing to do with the church Jesus founded. Jesus Christ still founded the Catholic church, in spite of everything that has happened over the past 2,000 years.

I’m more tired of the world confusing Protestanism with Catholicism.

For example: blaming Catholics for Creationism and hatred of homosexuals. Last I checked, creationism was a Protestant idea and the whole “homosexuals are evil and hated by God and are going to hell” thing was also started by the Protestants.

But in everything that happens to the Church, we have to remember Jesus’ words:

"If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you. Remember the word I spoke to you, ‘No slave is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me also hates my Father. If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did, they would not have sin; but as it is, they have seen and hated both me and my Father. But in order that the word written in their law might be fulfilled, ‘They hated me without cause.’
“When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me. And you also testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.”

(John 15:18-27)

 

[PerryJ]

**They petitioned Sixtus IV, the then Pope, for an Inquisition. Inquisitions were for enquiring into allegations of errors in faith - which is most emphatically the Pope’s concern. They did not supply the ecclesiastics needed for such enquiries: the Pope had to. **​

It is an evasion to claim the Pope was not involved. He had to be, because only the Papacy could supply the theological basis & ecclesiastical personnel required for the institution. Laity - such as monarchs - had no competence to do so, & neither did the Cortes. or any other Spanish organ of government. For ecclesiastical juridiction in such matters, only the Papacy was the competent authority. That the Inquisition in Spain employed many lay familiares** does not change this. Heresy could be a political offence only because it was first of all an ecclesiastical crime. The legal precedents for Inquisitorial action were Church matters. The procedure was **that approved by the Popes. Jurisdiction in heresy cases outside Spain - in a Spanish possession such as Sicily - required Papal approval. The Popes were the legal source for the use of torture & the death by burning. **

**The entire attempt to relieve the Papacy of all responsibility is not only bad history; it betrays a desire to shift the blame for something felt to be blameworthy. **The Popes would be astonished to hear they had had no part in the Spanish Inquisition; & probably greatly offended.

**To approach the issue with the mind of an apologist is fatal to the honest study of history. **

The Pope was responsible for approving the Spanish Inquisition. The Inquisition was run via the Monarchy of Spain. At the time the muslims were theatening to overun Christendom. Fears were high. The Spanish monarchy would forcibly convert Jewish people to Christianity and then torture and execute them for not believing in Christ. The Papal authority to perform an inquisition can only be applied to Christians. This is why the Monarchy had to convert the Jew first. The Pope found out that this was happening and issued a Papal Bull against the Inquisition. Spain threatened to leave Rome to the mercy of conquering muslims. The Pope recinded his Papal Bull against the Inquisition. The Spanish Inquistion was for the most part a way for the Spanish Monarchy to persecute Jews. The Pope definetly had failure in judgement; however, it is inaccurate to portray that the Spanish Inquistion was managed by the Pope.

 

[reteeks21]

The Pope was responsible for approving the Spanish Inquisition. The Inquisition was run via the Monarchy of Spain. At the time the muslims were theatening to overun Christendom. Fears were high. The Spanish monarchy would forcibly convert Jewish people to Christianity and then torture and execute them for not believing in Christ. The Papal authority to perform an inquisition can only be applied to Christians. This is why the Monarchy had to convert the Jew first. The Pope found out that this was happening and issued a Papal Bull against the Inquisition. Spain threatened to leave Rome to the mercy of conquering muslims. The Pope recinded his Papal Bull against the Inquisition. The Spanish Inquistion was for the most part a way for the Spanish Monarchy to persecute Jews. The Pope definetly had failure in judgement; however, it is inaccurate to portray that the Spanish Inquistion was managed by the Pope.

I totally agree with that last statement. It is quite annoying when non-Christians attribute the actions of a few to the entire Christian world. I do appreciate you bringing the other info to our attention. That, too must be acknowledged if history is told to be told accurately. It shows, at least to me it does, how Christianity has come so far in a few hundred years. Unlike other faiths we no longer support or condone murder in the name of God. Good post, PerryJ.