Why Can’t Lutherans Take Catholic Communion?

[jmcrae]

I’m sorry, that is a quote from an Episcopal priest’s site entitled 'Ask the Priest"; the link is below the quote.

What I believe is that of the Lutheran Church that apostolic succession within episcopacy is a good norm but not required. A pastor can ordain another pastor in Lutheranism though it is not practiced that way very much. Luther had little choice in Germany during the Reformation but the adjoining countries that switched allegiance to Lutheranism essentially had an undisturbed transition. The very bishops who were Roman Catholic one day became Lutheran the next, so to speak. They continued to care for the dioceses including ordaining priests and deacons.

I am not that acquainted with the circumstances in the Anglican church but that they are in communion with European and American Lutherans, I assume they trace some of their apostolic succession to “Baltic Lutherans” and Old Catholics. I have read of Lutheran priests in America being ordained by a bishop from the North American Old Roman Catholic Church - Utrecht Succession.

If there is a break in the Succession (ie: no Bishops to ordain priests, or a change in the wording of the Rite) then there is no Succession. You can’t point to a time before the break occurred and say, “See? We have Apostolic Succession,” when really you don’t.

Priests cannot ordain other priests; only Bishops who are in union with the Bishop of Rome have the faculties to ordain priests.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

If there is a break in the Succession (ie: no Bishops to ordain priests, or a change in the wording of the Rite) then there is no Succession. You can’t point to a time before the break occurred and say, “See? We have Apostolic Succession,” when really you don’t.

Priests cannot ordain other priests; only Bishops who are in union with the Bishop of Rome have the faculties to ordain priests.

I could be wrong but I think there is more to it than just apostolic succession. I have read that Roman Catholics do not doubt the historic validity of Lutheran bishops in Scandinavia and the Baltic. The issue is rather, not believing in the infallibility of the Pope. That is where all Christians beside Roman Catholics agree.

 

[jmcrae]

I could be wrong but I think there is more to it than just apostolic succession. I have read that Roman Catholics do not doubt the historic validity of Lutheran bishops in Scandinavia and the Baltic.

I have no idea about Scandanavian Lutheran Bishops; all I know is, I can’t receive Holy Communion from them, because I’m Catholic and they are not. In this part of the world, I have never met or heard of any Lutherans who think they have Apostolic Succession - they don’t consider it necessary.

The issue is rather, not believing in the infallibility of the Pope. That is where all Christians beside Roman Catholics agree.

It is the one thing they share in common.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I have no idea about Scandanavian Lutheran Bishops; all I know is, I can’t receive Holy Communion from them, because I’m Catholic and they are not. In this part of the world, I have never met or heard of any Lutherans who think they have Apostolic Succession - they don’t consider it necessary.

It is the one thing they share in common.

But you could receive holy communion in Lutheran churches just like I can in Roman Catholic churches [ie. the author’s story]. You can chose not to commune outside your Church but the option is available.

 

[jmcrae]

But you could receive holy communion in Lutheran churches just like I can in Roman Catholic churches [ie. the author’s story]. You can chose not to commune outside your Church but the option is available.

Like any choice, it comes with consequences. I prefer not to spend eternity in Hell.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Like any choice, it comes with consequences. I prefer not to spend eternity in Hell.

I hate to ask this but considering the responses by some on this forum. You are being facetious aren’t you?

 

[Corki]

But you could receive holy communion in Lutheran churches just like I can in Roman Catholic churches [ie. the author’s story]. You can chose not to commune outside your Church but the option is available.

Catholics** can **receive communion in Luteran churches, or in Methodist churches or in the Cowboy church down the road. That is, they are physically able to do so. But they **may not **without committing a grave sin. Sure there is a choice. God gave us free will - to sin or not to sin.

I hate to ask this but considering the responses by some on this forum. You are being facetious aren’t you?

I am not jmcrae but if it were me, I would not be being facetious. To willfully commit a grave sin is to risk one’s eternal soul. Like you said, we can freely choose to do that or resist the temptation and try to stay in a state of grace.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Catholics** can **receive communion in Luteran churches, or in Methodist churches or in the Cowboy church down the road. That is, they are physically able to do so. But they **may not **without committing a grave sin. Sure there is a choice. God gave us free will - to sin or not to sin.

Can you support your statement with actual Church teaching?

 

[Corki]

Can you support your statement with actual Church teaching?

yes. It’s in canon law.

Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

 

[jmcrae]

I hate to ask this but considering the responses by some on this forum. You are being facetious aren’t you?

Not at all. It would be a mortal sin for a Catholic to receive non-Catholic holy communion, just as it would be a mortal sin for a non-Catholic to partake of Holy Communion in a Catholic Church without first becoming a Catholic.

If they did not repent in this life and make a good Confession of this sin, they would go to Hell for sure. It is a very serious matter, not to be treated lightly.

The guidelines for receiving Communion, which are issued by the U.S. bishops and published in many missalettes, explain, "We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us ‘that they may all be one’ (John 17:21).

"Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law. . . . "

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

yes. It’s in canon law.

Do you know what the word, licit means, cowboy? Where is a Catholic going to Hell if he/ she Communion in a Lutheran Church?

Honestly, I’m becoming ashamed to be even be dialogging with some on this forum. The level of outright demeaning and hostility toward other Christians suggests to me that some people go to Mass but may never be touched by God.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you know what the word, licit means, cowboy?

“Rightly” or “legally.”

Where is a Catholic going to Hell if he/ she Communion in a Lutheran Church?

Where he is not receiving it from a Catholic minister.

 

[Corki]

Do you know what the word, licit means, cowboy? Where is a Catholic going to Hell if he/ she Communion in a Lutheran Church?

Cowgirl, if you please.

Yes, licit means legal.

• To break canon law is much like breaking civil law. There are consequences.
• If you willfully and with full knowledge break a canon law, you commit grave sin.
• If you commit grave sin you are not in a state of grace.
• If you die while not in a state of grace, you do not go to Heaven.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Clearly the archbishop of Washington DC must be an agent from the Devil to allow a Lutheran seminarian holy communion.

This site seems to attract those who desperately want a type of Church that is absolutely black and white. And when faced with the reality that the Pope is a compassion and wise vicar of Christ, they prefer to ignore it or perhaps secretly disagree.

But what strikes more than anything else on this topic is the willingness of some to be as unchristian as they possibly can be and still want to be identified with the teachings of Christ.

What does it mean to be an “elder” on this site? Is it merely longevity or does one earn it by showing wisdom and common decency?

 

[MaryT777]

Do you know what the word, licit means, cowboy? Where is a Catholic going to Hell if he/ she Communion in a Lutheran Church?

Honestly, I’m becoming ashamed to be even be dialogging with some on this forum. The level of outright demeaning and hostility toward other Christians suggests to me that some people go to Mass but may never be touched by God.

How possibly is having Canon law with supporting references from the Bible stating non Catholics cannot Commune in a Catholic Church and Catholics are to refrain from receiving in non Catholic Churches indicative they may never be touched by God?

That’s a major stretch of a comment don’t you think?

 

[jmcrae]

Clearly the archbishop of Washington DC must be an agent from the Devil to allow a Lutheran seminarian holy communion.

We only have anecdotal evidence that he did, under circumstances that may well have been permitted at the time (he was physically unable to get to a Lutheran church), but which no longer exist - he is a Pastor, now; he can give himself holy communion, if he wants to - the emergency is over.

This site seems to attract those who desperately want a type of Church that is absolutely black and white. And when faced with the reality that the Pope is a compassion and wise vicar of Christ, they prefer to ignore it or perhaps secretly disagree.

As far as I know, the Pope upholds the canon law.

But what strikes more than anything else on this topic is the willingness of some to be as unchristian as they possibly can be and still want to be identified with the teachings of Christ.

Christ didn’t teach “anything goes.” He gave us a Church, and authorities to govern it, and He expects us to obey them.

 

[Michael57]

But you could receive holy communion in Lutheran churches just like I can in Roman Catholic churches [ie. the author’s story]. You can chose not to commune outside your Church but the option is available.

You are wrong.

**Non-Catholics desiring communion in Catholic Mass may become Catholic through avenues that are freely available through the Diocese. That is called the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. ** That is how it’s done.

Please, show some respect to the rules that we abide by when you visit our Church. Be a good guest.

You are welcome in our Mass, but obey the one thing we ask: Refrain from taking communion until you complete RCIA.

 

[Michael57]

Clearly the archbishop of Washington DC must be an agent from the Devil to allow a Lutheran seminarian holy communion.

This site seems to attract those who desperately want a type of Church that is absolutely black and white. And when faced with the reality that the Pope is a compassion and wise vicar of Christ, they prefer to ignore it or perhaps secretly disagree.

But what strikes more than anything else on this topic is the willingness of some to be as unchristian as they possibly can be and still want to be identified with the teachings of Christ.

What does it mean to be an “elder” on this site? Is it merely longevity or does one earn it by showing wisdom and common decency?

I don’t think that insulting senior members of CAF is a great way to convince anyone of the correctness of your argument, which is to me unconvincing, intellectually dishonest, and full of red herrings. .

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Last word and then I am going to bed.

I hesitate to write this but I am beginning to think that some posters really don’t honor the Pope. Benedict prays with Lutherans, archbishops, bishops and priests invite Lutherans to partake of the Mass. Francis may even consider inter-communion with Lutherans.

These situations likely strike horror in some Catholics. I certainly hope that there are not any Catholics on this forum who subscribe to frightening anti-Pope Roman Catholic websites.

Most priests reading these responses would be embarrassed and ashame, as I am.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I hate to ask this but considering the responses by some on this forum. You are being facetious aren’t you?

Those who have communion outside the boundaries of the Faith are drinking judgement on themselves. The Eucharist is not a kumbaya happy go 'round hospitality table, like you are presenting. It is a matter of the utmost respect.

At this point you are about to cross the line into disrespect. I kindly ask you to stop minimizing the differences that exist between our communions.

You are walking a fine line of trying to proselytize your communion (ELCA) with the Anglican/Episcopalian communion. You are free to promote it on your own forums, but please don’t do it in ours.