Why Can’t Lutherans Take Catholic Communion?

[joe371]

The biggest question is, why would anyone want Communion from a Church other than theirs or those they are in communion with?

:yup: Especially if they do not adhere to the beliefs associated with communion?

 

[Michael57]

Came across this article from the perspective/ practice of an ELCA pastor regarding intercommunion.

Any thoughts?

Yes, here’s a “thought”, maybe two or three.

The author is in deep error, and he apparently knows that he is wrong. He says as much himself.

It seems that you are trying to seek approval for something that you must also know down deep is inherently wrong according to the CCC teachings on the Eucharist. I don’t know why.

There are two commandments we are told to follow by our Lord, Love the Lord our God above all else, and Love our neighbors as we do ourselves.

If you love your neighbor, when you visit his house, then you will follow his rules of conduct in that house. This is the same case.

May you see the Truth, not as I say it, but as God speaks it to your heart and mind.

And may that be so for us all.

Peace be with you.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Yes, here’s a “thought”, maybe two or three.

The author is in deep error, and he apparently knows that he is wrong. He says as much himself.

It seems that you are trying to seek approval for something that you must also know down deep is inherently wrong according to the CCC teachings on the Eucharist. I don’t know why.

There are two commandments we are told to follow by our Lord, Love the Lord our God above all else, and Love our neighbors as we do ourselves.

If you love your neighbor, when you visit his house, then you will follow his rules of conduct in that house. This is the same case.

May you see the Truth, not as I say it, but as God speaks it to your heart and mind.

And may that be so for us all.

Peace be with you.

Please answer the question, why did Pope Benedict personally give Holy Communion to the Protestant founder of Taize?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I live in the metro New York/ Long Island area where most of the occasions for intercommunion with Catholics have occurred in my family. In order to better understand eucharistic hospitality, I looked up the policy of the Diocese of Rockville Centre to read the official position of this Roman Catholic diocese. drvc.org/the-chancery/special-circumstances-for-the-admission-of-other-christians-to-communion-at-catholic-celebrations-of-the-eucharist-in-the-diocese-of-rockville-centre.html

However, the Directory reminds us that “…in certain circumstances, by way of exception and under certain conditions, access to these sacraments (Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing of the Sick) may be permitted or even commended for Christians of other churches and ecclesial communities.” (9) This may always be done if a Christian is in danger of death (cf. section IV, below, and canon 844.4). However, Eucharist may also be given to other Christians if there is, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or episcopal conference, some other “grave necessity” or “grave and pressing need.” (10) Consequently, just as it is inappropriate to issue a general invitation to Christians who are not Catholic to share in Holy Communion, it is equally inappropriate to make a general statement indiscriminately barring all other Christians from sharing in the sacrament. Such a total prohibition would be more limiting than the norms of the Directory and the 1996 statement of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops now published in all participation materials.

However, as mentioned above, there are occasions when sacramental sharing with other Christians is possible. Indeed, Pope John Paul II remarks that “it is a source of joy” that Catholic ministers, in particular cases, can administer sacraments to Christians with whom Catholics do not share full ecclesial communion.

•The person requesting the sacrament must be validly baptized. Baptism is valid when water is poured or the person is immersed and the trinitarian formula is used. For example, valid baptism is presumed for Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists. (21)

•The person must manifest the faith which the Catholic Church professes in the sacrament. As a minimum for Eucharistic sharing, the person must believe that in receiving the Eucharist we receive the body and blood of Christ. In some communions this is standard dogma; for example, Episcopalians and Lutherans can be presumed to believe in the real presence. For members of other communions there may be need for some further discussion concerning their belief in the Eucharist.

•The person must ask for the sacrament freely. The request must have been initiated by the person seeking Eucharistic communion.

•The person must be unable to have recourse for the sacrament to a minister of his or her own community. This condition is met when gaining access to one’s own minister poses a reasonable physical, moral or psychological difficulty, or causes serious inconvenience for the minister or recipient.

•The person must be properly disposed to receive the sacrament. As noted above “proper disposition” is the same as required for Catholics, i.e., not conscious of serious sin (see canon 916). “Being properly disposed means being in a good relationship with God, or if not, taking whatever steps are necessary to return to a good relationship with God.” (22)

In light of the above canonical norms and pastoral reflections, the following situations are examples–not an exhaustive list-- of occasions, other than danger of death, when a “grave necessity” may be discerned and Eucharist may be shared with Episcopal or Protestant Christians if all the conditions are met:

Admittedly, the circumstances where a Lutheran is communed in a Catholic Mass are limited per the above document. But the practice of inter-communion is much more common than these circumstances identify.

 

[Michael57]

Please answer the question, why did Pope Benedict personally give Holy Communion to the Protestant founder of Taize?

Do you always deflect to try to make the exception prove the (non-existent) rule when you’re wrong and losing your argument?

You do realize that this was an exception to the normal practices, right?

Apparently not.

As for the why of it? The Pope does what he choses to do as the circumstances and his good judgment dictates. He’s the Pope and has his own authority, he can make exceptions as he sees fit. This was such an exception.

Do you think that the Pope, in visiting a Mosque, has decreed that all Muslims are now in communion with Rome? I wouldn’t think so. Yet he visited a Mosque and no Catholics are attending Muslim worship, nor are Muslims attending Catholics Mass, save those desiring to convert.

Exceptions do not equate to a new policy decree to be followed by the whole Catholic Church hence forth and forever more. It’s an EXCEPTION, not a NEW RULE.

No matter how much you wish it might be so, it just ain’t so.

Bishops also from time to time grant an exception on a case by case basis, and it is understood by most that it is for that one time only, the author wrote about it and seems to think that this one time permission extends to infinity. And he is careful not to ask about it. Do you understand that? He KNOWS he would be denied under regular circumstances because he’s NOT CATHOLIC. He’s skirting the issue carefully and even brags about it in his article. I can see him winking at the reader as he wrote it in my mind’s eye.

The author’s one time exception from a bishop does not mean that the author has indefinite permission to take the Eucharist at any and every Catholic Mass. And he knows it. You should too.

As I said, the priests & deacons & religious & laity have **no authority **under Canon law to grant an exception to Non-Catholics (persons not in communion with Rome). They have no authority to do this. None. They err greatly in doing so and it harms them, the persons they allow, and their whole parish. Scripture addresses it thoroughly, as do the Church Fathers. What they do I am sure is out of kindness, but it is still wrong. And those that know better and still do it, well, if that isn’t the definition of evil, then what could take its place?

And that you don’t accept this, seems to indicate that you are unwilling to look at and respect the rules governing the Catholic Church as enumerated in the CCC and Canon Law.

Good night.

 

[Michael57]

I live in the metro New York/ Long Island area where most of the occasions for intercommunion with Catholics have occurred in my family. In order to better understand eucharistic hospitality, I looked up the policy of the Diocese of Rockville Centre to read the official position of this Roman Catholic diocese. drvc.org/the-chancery/special-circumstances-for-the-admission-of-other-christians-to-communion-at-catholic-celebrations-of-the-eucharist-in-the-diocese-of-rockville-centre.html

Admittedly, the circumstances where a Lutheran is communed in a Catholic Mass are limited per the above document. But the practice of inter-communion is much more common than these circumstances identify.

**"by way of exception and under certain conditions, access to these sacraments (Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing of the Sick) may be permitted or even commended for Christians of other churches and ecclesial communities.” (9) This may always be done if a Christian is in danger of death (cf. section IV, below, and canon 844.4). However, Eucharist may also be given to other Christians if there is, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or episcopal conference, some other “grave necessity” or “grave and pressing need.” **

Really. Do you not even read the things you post in support of your own argument?

:banghead:

 

[JonNC]

In 2010, Pope Benedict visited the Lutheran church in Rome. In his homily, he said the following:

Continuing his homily, delivered off-the-cuff in German, the Holy Father noted how “we hear many complaints about the fact that there are no longer any new developments in ecumenism. Yet”, he insisted, “we can say with gratitude that there are many elements that unite us”.

"We must not content ourselves with the successes of ecumenism over recent years, because we still cannot drink from the same chalice or gather together around the same altar", he said.

“This”, he went on, “cannot but make us sad because it is a situation of sin; and yet unity cannot be achieved by men. We must entrust ourselves to the Lord, because He is the only one Who can give us unity. Let us hope that He brings us to that goal”.

m.catholicnews.sg/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4152:benedict-xvi-visits-romes-evangelical-lutheran-church&catid=196:vis-vatican-information-service&Itemid=127

Pope Benedict here speaks the policy of the Catholic Church, and we show love and respect for our Catholic siblings when we honor their wishes in this regard.

Jon

 

[GKC]

In 2010, Pope Benedict visited the Lutheran church in Rome. In his homily, he said the following:

m.catholicnews.sg/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4152:benedict-xvi-visits-romes-evangelical-lutheran-church&catid=196:vis-vatican-information-service&Itemid=127

Pope Benedict here speaks the policy of the Catholic Church, and we show love and respect for our Catholic siblings when we honor their wishes in this regard.

Jon

Hard to understand why the subject is still being discussed. I know their rules. I know how to behave. Why others don’t or can’t is a puzzle.

GKC

 

[EvangelCatholic]

"by way of exception and under certain conditions, access to these sacraments (Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing of the Sick) may be permitted or even commended for Christians of other churches and ecclesial communities.” (9) This may always be done if a Christian is in danger of death (cf. section IV, below, and canon 844.4). However, Eucharist may also be given to other Christians if there is, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or episcopal conference, some other “grave necessity” or “grave and pressing need.”

Really. Do you not even read the things you post in support of your own argument?

:banghead:

I’d be much more willing to interact with you as a fellow poster and Christian, if you could tone down your ridicule and increase your charity.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I’d be much more willing to interact with you as a fellow poster and Christian, if you could tone down your ridicule and increase your charity.

Maybe you have not been told but - you are a very difficult and frustrating person to interact with. But I’m just a lay person and not a padre, so it doesn’t matter.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

There is the Law and there is the Gospel. I am puzzled that some readers insist on laws to separate us from Christ.

What happens when Christians gather to worship God is holy. In the confession before Mass, the Lutheran liturgy refers to “we poor sinners confess unto Thee, that by nature we are sinful and unclean”. We in no way deserve Christ’s forgiveness and eternal life in the Holy Body and Holy Blood of the Eucharist. It is a wonderous gift that Christ bestows on his faithful people.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Maybe you have not been told but - you are a very difficult and frustrating person to interact with. But I’m just a lay person and not a padre, so it doesn’t matter.

Yes, you even refer to me as a “hater” on another thread. Isn’t that a personal attack?

 

[steido01]

Eric, is it time to close this thread?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Yes, you even refer to me as a “hater” on another thread. Isn’t that a personal attack?

Did you read the explanation on the other thread (we are the haters)? Or is this another case of selective reading?

For your convenience:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11017932&postcount=216

 

[Peter_J]

Hard to understand why the subject is still being discussed. I know their rules. I know how to behave. Why others don’t or can’t is a puzzle.

GKC

Tell me about it. I feel just the same way when my fellow Catholics tell me “Can you believe the Orthodox don’t admit Catholics to communion!”

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Tell me about it. I feel just the same way when my fellow Catholics tell me “Can you believe the Orthodox don’t admit Catholics to communion!”

Escapes my imagination as well…

 

[Captain_America]

:yup: Especially if they do not adhere to the beliefs associated with communion?

This is something I’ve wondered too. I’ve run into Lutherans who are all concerned or who have made themselves distressed over this. . . but I rather feel that this isn’t too well thought through, or perhaps simply based on a misunderstanding, or perhaps is a passive-aggressive move against the Catholic Church, trying to physically MAKE the argument that communion should be what THEY wish it to be rather than what it is.

I don’t believe, for instance, in declaring myself a Republican. So I’m not surprised that I don’t get invitations to the annual Lincoln Dinner!

 

[JonNC]

Hard to understand why the subject is still being discussed. I know their rules. I know how to behave. Why others don’t or can’t is a puzzle.

GKC

Well, one thing I will say is that if there are Catholic priests, etc. that are openly allowing and encouraging this, they certainly are not helping matters.

Jon

 

[pablope]

I’d be much more willing to interact with you as a fellow poster and Christian, if you could tone down your ridicule and increase your charity.

From your own link:

by way of exception and under certain conditions, access to these sacraments (Eucharist, Reconciliation and Anointing of the Sick) may be permitted or even commended for Christians of other churches and ecclesial communities.” (9) This may always be done if a Christian is in danger of death (cf. section IV, below, and canon 844.4). However, Eucharist may also be given to other Christians if there is, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or episcopal conference, some other “grave necessity” or “grave and pressing need.”

so the question…what is the pressing need, the grave necessity…that you would want to receive the Eucharist from a Catholic priest?