Why can't Catholics be Masons?

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extremely interesting read on why someone had to get out…

isaiah54.org/finney.htm

I am still trying to find the letter from the guy in New York to his lodges. I posted the link in the last big thread on the subject and can’t seem to find it.

I just don’t want to put words in the guy’s mouth, I’ll keep looking.
Code: 
Found this... from [rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/masons.htm](http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/masons.htm)

Henry Wilson Coil is the author of the encyclopedia that many lodges now accept as their authoritative source (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia). Coil says that if Freemasonry is not a religion, nothing would have to be added to make it such, and that the religious service at the funeral of a Mason is evidence enough that Freemasonry is a religion. But the fact that Freemasonry is religion would not necessarily condemn it, except that the views of the Masonic religion are in open conflict with Biblical Christianity, so much so that, in our opinion, a knowledgeable and committed Mason could not possibly be a true Christian.
 
gamewell45 said:
ffg;10690872:
A Masonic Funeral Service is much like a funeral service put on by a local volunteer fire or police department; it is a gathering and remembrance of the deceased. Prayers are given for the deceased and family members and nothing more Freemasonry is not a religion nor a substitute for religion. If one is looking for religion it would be best that they go to their house of worship and find it there…
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Freemasonry substitutes their own prayers and versions thereof, to be compatible with what they believe.

That, alone, makes them a religion.
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Because it is a cult. Current research is domonstrating the masonic lodges are connect to occult organizations, the world order, and others that advocate plutocracy (rule by the rich).
 
Jessie5000 said:
Because it is a cult. Current research is domonstrating the masonic lodges are connect to occult organizations, the world order, and others that advocate plutocracy (rule by the rich).
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I was wondering when this idea would appear!

If this was true, 99% of all Masons couldn’t know about this ‘conspiracy’ otherwise it wouldn’t work - there would be too many people who knew and someone would spill the beans. I know I would.

So if your goal is to convince Catholics to drop their membership in Masonry, even if you think they conspiracy is true, you should find a different way of convincing Catholics. Because if you come up to a Catholic Mason with this conspiracy idea, they would probably stop talking to you because what you are saying doesn’t fit with their experience.

(horrid sounds of having my neck cut and my body left at high tide)
 
Hello this is benjohnson. Please ignore my previous post. It was wrong. I will not be available after this post. I am on vacation for a very long time.
 
While individual Masons may have involvement in the occult, I don’t think the Craft as a whole is formally teaching or involved with such practices. I could be wrong of course, and I suppose it depends on what you mean by occult, but I refuse to believe any of my Masonic family ties were ever involved in devil worship for example.
 
MattofTexas said:
While individual Masons may have involvement in the occult, I don’t think the Craft as a whole is formally teaching or involved with such practices. I could be wrong of course, and I suppose it depends on what you mean by occult, but I refuse to believe any of my Masonic family ties were ever involved in devil worship for example.
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Why Catholics Can’t Be Masons links takes you to an interview with attorney John Salza, the author of the book with the same title:

sanctepater.com/2012/03/why-catholics-cant-be-masons.html
 
Lochias said:
gamewell45;10690921:
Freemasonry substitutes their own prayers and versions thereof, to be compatible with what they believe.

That, alone, makes them a religion.
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Is the quote system odd? I was just going to point out that I didn’t write what is quoted in post #101, but then that post which includes this edit, quoted the wrong person.

I was hoping Ben would answer my question, as gamewell went with the ‘what’, when I asked the ‘why’. But, it looks like Ben is on a nice long vacation.

Thanks,
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benjohnson said:
Hello this is benjohnson. Please ignore my previous post. It was wrong. I will not be available after this post. I am on vacation for a very long time.
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Ben, I don’t see fault in defending what you know through what you live.

I was hessitant to post the source of my quote from Henry Wilson Coil (Coil’s Masonic Encyclopedia).

I thought Henry’s words more than the site’s commentary were important in the discussion.
 
ffg said:
But, it looks like Ben is on a nice long vacation.
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It’s sort of a running gag with Masons to pretend that other Masons have abducted them because they told one of the ‘secrets.’

Ffg, to answer your question - I’ve never seen anything in Masonry the deals with salvation other than a general reference to the afterlife now an then. If I did see or hear anything about salvation, I would leave, because that would turn it into a religion.

That said, Masonic funeral rites are a bit weird and not-appropriate for our understanding of what it happening around the time of death. In it’s defence, if I understand correctly the Masonic funeral came about in a time when many men couldn’t afford a dignified funeral and were just put in the ground, and Masons were a benevolence society in that the funerals were important for poor men, but especially important for the widow that was left behind when her time came.

Here’s a typical Masonic funeral rite:

youtube.com/watch?v=GTdg5gMPYuQ

There is a phrase in the rite that is as close as you’ll ever hear Masons talk anything close to salvation - in that we’ll meet again in the ‘Celestial Lodge.’ It talks about the immortality of the soul and the ‘work’ that will continue.

Frankly, of all the Masonic rites, from a Christian perspective the Funeral rite would probably be the most troubling.

Oddly enough, I’ve been out of the lodge for so long, after watching this, I can certainly see how this seems incredibly weird. That said, there are excellent words of advice in this rite - I wish I had heard them earlier in my life and taken life a bit more seriously in my youth.
 
Poking around on YouTube looking for a Masonic Funderal Rite - I found this:

youtube.com/watch?v=o7cF2uKDb_I

It’s a reasonably good documentary, with just enough intrigue to keep the conspiracies going. 🙂

There a reenactment of a few degrees that may be accurate - but I’m not telling. 🙂
 
I feel sorry for the priests. These Masonic Funerals can be a source of real difficulty for many priests, Catholic obviously who will have nothing to do with them for obvious reasons, but Protestant as well; a difficulty to any honest faithful pastor who has devoted his life to Jesus Christ. It’s a good example to Catholics of why the Catholic Church should continue to ensure Catholics do not become Freemasons.

I don’t have the situation before me but I recall reading from Martin Short’s Inside the Brotherhood how a young pleasant Anglican priest in England was suddenly presented with the demand to hold a Masonic funeral service inside his church by the Masonic members of his parish who had lost a brother-Mason. The priest, new to this, asked merely to see the contents of the Masonic funeral service that was to take place inside his church beforehand. They were reluctantly given to him and the priest found them quite unsettling.

An uproar ensued from the Masonic parishioners. The priest, finding himself in a tense stand-off but with his Bishop’s support, allowed that it could go forward on the condition, I believe, that all prayers in the Church were to end with “in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ” as his Bishop had recommended. After all, the deceased was an Anglican Christian, the Church is the home of God where Christ is prayed to. But if I recall correctly the Masons refused to budge and would not add “in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” to any prayer whatsoever.

I think the Masonic funeral was then moved to the cemetery. The priest, if I recall correctly, lost his parish such was the outcry and opposition to him from the Masonic parishioners. A really nice priest with a nice wife hoping to start a new life with a new parish. It came to a quick end that he never expected. The Masons in the parish council made his life incredibly difficult, and he had to leave I think.

I think it is stories like these, among all the other problems, that made the former Archbishop of Canterbury realize Freemasonry was incompatible with Christianity.
 
benjohnson said:
Being a Mason, I knew exactly who you were talking about based on the description.

My lodge has an amazing amount of Catholics in it. Ironically, the Masonic oath that I took to “frequent my house of worship” turned me into an LCMS Lutheran, and under their rules, I’m not supposed to me a Mason.

If I had to give advice to any Catholic - if you think you need to join Masons, then you shouldn’t joint. If you think it will get in the way of your Catholic obligations, then don’t join. If going against the clear teachings of the church would cause you suffering, then don’t join.

If Masonry would fill some sort of hole in your life - don’t join. If you don’t go to church every week, don’t join.

If the lodge you’re going to join thinks that Masonry is anything other than a historical fraternity of men, then DON"T JOIN. There are some crackpot Masons out there. Never join a lodge outside the Commonwealth - continental Freemasonry deserves the reputation.

Do check out the Knights of Columbus first - it’s has all the positive attributes of Masonry without some of the weird baggage.
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I wonder if the Catholics there know the Church prohibits membership?
 
benjohnson said:
Ha! 🙂

Being both a Mason and a Lutheran, I have a KofC friend that every once in awhile likes to pretend to strangle me… it’s a running joke with us about the nuttiness of the anti-Catholic crazies at the turn of the last century. Of course, in return, I have torment him with German anti-papal rantings.

…

Frankly, I think Catholics would have a much better chance of swaying Catholics away from Masonry but being a bit less hyperbolic - telling an otherwise good Catholic Mason that he worships the devil will quickly get one put in the crazies category in his mind. Telling him that the KofC has all the good stuff about Masonry without the guilt would probably work better.
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Ben are you saying it’s acceptable in your LCMS parish to also be a Mason?
 
benjohnson said:
I’m not supposed to divulge the ‘secrets’ of Masonry, but the last few comments have been mostly spot-on in that there is a bunch of odd stuff in the Masonic and ancillary rituals. As for the ‘oaths’ there’s nothing too embarrassing in them save for the weird penalties.

More as a defense to those Catholics who are Masons, at least in my lodge, the ritual is presented in a way that you completely understand that it is not ‘real’ - that it portrays a fictitious a time and place that never existed.

In my opinion, that some Masons take the odder parts of the these plays (what Masons call ritual) seriously is their failing. Thankfully I haven’t met such a person, as the urge to shake some sense into them would be strong.
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Ben: Why are you possibly making a “defense” to Catholics who are Masons?
It’s contrary to Church teaching for the obvious reasons which have been posted.
Speak to the Lutherans in the Lodge instead. Good grief you are not a Catholic spokesperson.
 
Mary, Ben is one of 2 Masons on here willing to discuss this subject on the ’ non- Catholic board. I know of one other person who pm’d me about his conversion from mason.

This board does not have a whole lot of ‘registered’ non-Catholics as it is, and is meant for discussion not simply reading posts from Catholics in order to say in one’s mind ’ ah ok, got it’.

We have now seen a couple big (for lack of a better term) Masons mention two interesting things about masonry.

Henry Coil, creator of the Masonic encyclopedia said nothing needs to be done for masonry to be a religion. He goes on to say that alone does not make it in conflict with other religion, necessarily.

It was either he or another Mason that said, it is not a religion, rather religion itself.

The second one sounds like finding the holy grail. A conclusion I see likely after years of worship with men of many faiths. Though to import my bias, not helping oneself in the pursuit of Truth.

Both lines of Coils paraphrased opinion above can have differing conclusions, first he acknowledges it is a religion. ‘Nothing more needs to be done’ is simply terminology to please the faithful, not ruffle too many feathers.

More interesting to me is his second line, not necessarily condemn it. I wonder if he would further mention somewhere when it is condemned. Say, for instance, when in conflict with basic principles of Christianity regarding spreading the Word.
 
Let me state it more simply.

A LCMS Lutheran is in VIOLATION of their own synod teachings regarding masonry
if they are a Mason. That’s been established now.

This is a thread named Why Catholics can’t be Masons.

A person in violation of their own teachings should probably speak to sharing their own viewpoints of why their own Lutheran denomination is WroNG and they are RIGHT and so
I will be a Mason anyway rather than commenting on how to not guilt Catholics Out of the Masons. That’s why I have a Lutherans and Masons thread now. How can one comment on how to get Catholics out of the Masons when they are violating their own church and are a mason themselves. Good grief.

Back to the topic at hand why CATHOLICS can’t be Masons; not why they should be masons if they wanna .

Thus forum is to support the magisterium.

It’s ridiculo
 
Thanks Mary,

This is getting rude and you are singling out someone to attack, which I’m sure is against forum rules. Though I don’t report people, I’m sure this has been noted.

I’ll have to go back and find where and why the magisterium tells us to point fingers and cast the first stone.

It looks like I’ll also have to find the part about non-Catholics not being able to have opinions because of their state in life. Especially opinions on a website dedicated to said non-Catholics.

It’s important to see the learning opportunity on the board in both directions.
 
MaryT777 said:
Ben: Why are you possibly making a “defense” to Catholics who are Masons?
It’s contrary to Church teaching for the obvious reasons which have been posted.
Speak to the Lutherans in the Lodge instead. Good grief you are not a Catholic spokesperson.
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I’m not defending Catholic knowingly going against church’s teaching, I’m defending Catholics from accusations that they are engaging in something so wholly evil that they themselves must ipso facto be evil.

I’m also commenting on levelheaded arguments to persuade other Catholics to drop their membership in Freemasonry - in my opinion foaming-at-the-mouth accusations are probably not going to convince any Catholic Mason.

As for me, my church forbids membership in Freemasonry. I have a personal understanding with my pastor, I’m a Lutheran, not a particularly good one by most standards. Obviously I need the church as it is a hospital for sinners.
 
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