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Kouyate42
Guest
Thank you all for the advice. I shall be sure to practice what has been suggested.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I have a struggle similar to yours, although there are others who would have good reason to struggle to forgive me.
In my case the person I find hardest to forgive is my own father, who deliberately destroyed my confidence. I know this because I had the peculiar experience of his appearing in my room the night he died. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this almighty scream and then disappeared. I personally believe he’s in Hell, despite the well meaning attempts of others on this site to try to convince me he’s in Purgatory. During the exchange, he told me he “did it deliberately” ie. he deliberately set out to destroy my confidence from the time I was a very young child and continued this policy for 20 years. I have a problem with regarding God as “Father” as one consequence.
However he also pleaded for “forgiveness” during the exchange. At one time he looked quite desperate, and said, “Son, you’ve got to forgive me! If you don’t, you’ll destroy yourself!”
I snarled back, “You treated me like dirt for 20 years, and now you want forgiveness!!”
He replied, and this is where I think it gets to the crux of the matter, "Son, it’s not for me! It’s too late for me! It’s for you!"
Note that the forgivness wasn’t for his benefit - it was for mine (and truth to tell, I still have trouble forgiving him). What he was implying was that I had to let go of the bitterness, or it would consume me. And that’s the struggle you’re facing.
The forgiveness that’s required of you is not for the benefit of this man who hurt you so deeply. He may not even care about being forgiven. If you said to him, “I forgive you”, he’d quite possibly laugh at you (as my father did on one occasion when I said that to him, while he was still alive. He just sneered in my face).
It’s for you. If you don’t let go of this bitterness, and keep holding it against this man, it will hold you back. By letting it go, you no longer hold it against him personally. But that doesn’t let him off the hook with God, as my father found out.
When Christ forgave the Pharisees and others, there’s no record that the ring leaders ever repented. I’d be very surprised if Annas and Caiaphas are not in hell, but that’s just my opinion. Christ was willing to forgive them, but if they did not repent, then it sure wouldn’t have done them any good. But if Christ hadn’t forgiven them, what we would have had would have been a bitter, condemning, vengeful God-the-Son, hell-bent on making their life a misery, and fuming in his own anger. But He handed it over to His Father (hence my struggle).
In every book I’ve seen which combines both the spiritual and psychological elements of forgiveness, there is a statement made somewhere that the forgiveness is not for the offender. It’s for the person who has been humiliated.
And it’s not easy. I know. I’ve been struggling with it for years.
In a nutshell, it’s important for you to realise that your forgiving this man is not for his benefit. It’s for **YOUR **benefit.
But it’s not easy. If it were, Christ would hardly have put so much emphasis on it.
All the best.
T
TiggerS
Guest
This is a dangerous place to be. I would recommend a psychiatrist or a psychologist.
When we desire to forgive and really want to forgive, then our will is choosing forgiveness and we have already forgiven; however, feelings often do not response immediately to what the will chooses, what the will may want. And your will wants to feel forgiveness and the beginning of a journey until your feelings come into line with your will and it may be a very long journey. It is the journey of forgiving.
However, to want violence on someone, were it me, I would be making an appointment with a psychologist or psychiatrist. If you are choosing ( meaning your will is choosing) to want violence then this to want violent revenge. If you keep feellng you want violence on this person, and wish that you did not have these feelings - then your will is striving to bring your feelings into line. But again, if I wanted violence on another person, I would be seeking and urgently expert help i.e. psychologist or psychiatrist. - and very especially if I could not get over such serious and violent feelings. The essence is at this piont anyway - your desire for violence on this person is really only bringing harm to you and psychologically. My very real fear for myself were I in your situation would be that I might act out such feelings.
Primarily, prayer and speak with a priest about it all.
Can you see how your situation seems to be worsening:
- The whole thing KEEPS coming back on my mind (obsession)
- I KEEP thinking about all the wrong done to me (resentment)
- I find myself going through moments of true HATE (extreme negative feelings)
- I’ve even been once to the point of IMAGINING VIOLENCE upon him (violent feelings)
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fred_conty
Guest
Who is the father of anger and murder? He is going to keep working this anger
against you. Ask Mary for the grace to squench it.
Here is some important info about the Miraculous Medal, one of Mother Theresa’s
favorites.
“Have a medal struck… All who wear it will receive GREAT graces; they should wear it
around the neck. GRACES will ABOUND for persons who wear it with CONFIDENCE.”
From the mother of Jesus spoken to sister Catherine Laboure 1830.
“Great graces are often attached to what seems trifling.” St. Margaret Mary Alacoque
“The devotions we practice in honor of the glorious Virgin Mary, however trifling they be,
are very pleasing to her divine Son, …” St. Teresa of Jesus
During this apparition, Mary’s hands had 3 rings on each finger. Each ring gave off
rays of colored light. A few rings did not. Mary said that the lights radiating from
the rings are graces that people ASK for. The rings that didn’t radiate she said
were graces not given because they were NOT asked for.
Wear her blessed miraculous medal. Then say, “Mary I am asking now for you to
obtain the great graces for me which you have promised to give to those who ask and
that have trust in you.” Trust her, it works. She is the mother of God.
Would she lie?
Her wish is for you to have this. It is her gift. Use it with love and see what happens.
=============================================
“Yes, blessed is she who believed that the promise made her by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
(Lk. 1;45) St. Elizabeth
against you. Ask Mary for the grace to squench it.
Here is some important info about the Miraculous Medal, one of Mother Theresa’s
favorites.
“Have a medal struck… All who wear it will receive GREAT graces; they should wear it
around the neck. GRACES will ABOUND for persons who wear it with CONFIDENCE.”
From the mother of Jesus spoken to sister Catherine Laboure 1830.
“Great graces are often attached to what seems trifling.” St. Margaret Mary Alacoque
“The devotions we practice in honor of the glorious Virgin Mary, however trifling they be,
are very pleasing to her divine Son, …” St. Teresa of Jesus
During this apparition, Mary’s hands had 3 rings on each finger. Each ring gave off
rays of colored light. A few rings did not. Mary said that the lights radiating from
the rings are graces that people ASK for. The rings that didn’t radiate she said
were graces not given because they were NOT asked for.
Wear her blessed miraculous medal. Then say, “Mary I am asking now for you to
obtain the great graces for me which you have promised to give to those who ask and
that have trust in you.” Trust her, it works. She is the mother of God.
Would she lie?
Her wish is for you to have this. It is her gift. Use it with love and see what happens.
Code:
legionofmary.org/miracmedal.html“Yes, blessed is she who believed that the promise made her by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
(Lk. 1;45) St. Elizabeth
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creole54
Guest
I recently returned to the Catholic church after many years of sinful living. One of the first things I did, of course, was go to confession in addition to begging God’s forgiveness many, many times on my own. I never truly felt like I had been forgiven. i guess I felt like I was too evil for even God to forgive me.
It was pointed out by a very wonderful and perceptive friend that maybe the reason I didn’t feel forgiven was because I had not yet forgiven the people in my life who had hurt me. I mean, why should God forgive me if I wasn’t willing to forgive others?
I started praying daily, asking God for the grace to be able to forgive those who had hurt me. I knew I couldn’t do it on my own, I needed His help. Since I’ve been asking His help, I’ve found that those old feelings of anger don’t surface nearly as often, in some cases I can even think of the people with a sort of fondness and remember the good in them. Ii haven’t totally forgiven everyone, it will probably take years. But turn to Our Lord, my friend. Ask Him, every day, for the grace to forgive your enemies. He will not ignore your plea for help.
It was pointed out by a very wonderful and perceptive friend that maybe the reason I didn’t feel forgiven was because I had not yet forgiven the people in my life who had hurt me. I mean, why should God forgive me if I wasn’t willing to forgive others?
I started praying daily, asking God for the grace to be able to forgive those who had hurt me. I knew I couldn’t do it on my own, I needed His help. Since I’ve been asking His help, I’ve found that those old feelings of anger don’t surface nearly as often, in some cases I can even think of the people with a sort of fondness and remember the good in them. Ii haven’t totally forgiven everyone, it will probably take years. But turn to Our Lord, my friend. Ask Him, every day, for the grace to forgive your enemies. He will not ignore your plea for help.
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SaintGobban
Guest
I think many people can relate to what you are saying.
Pray to be able to fully forgive. But, I think that when you realize that you honestly do not wish this person to be damned, when you are able to pray for their salvation, when you are able to pray that God be merciful to them, that is as far as forgiveness has to go.
You continue to pray that all anger and bitterness be completely removed from your heart, but maybe you can only go so far right now, emotionally, and simply praying for the person’s salvation is enough, until you are given more graces through prayer.
And, I would just like to add that claiming that this only means you can’t forgive yourself, is NOT a helpful response.
It’s kind of like claiming that cancer is self-induced, and can be cured with the proper mental attitude.
Or, she got raped because her skirt was too short, or she shouldn’t have been in that place, or she should have known what he was like.
It is a means of blaming the victim.
There are times when people do terrible, terrible things to other people. Not forgiving is a way of protecting yourself. It is a way of protecting yourself emotionally and sometimes physically. Telling the person that it is really themselves they can not forgive is a way of saying that this terrible thing that another did to you is really your own fault, so it is really yourself that you are mad at, and yourself that needs forgiveness. I think it is a nonsense response, insulting, and most annoying.
You do not need to forgive yourself. You didn’t do anything to deserve this other person’s abuse. You are innocent in this situation. They were wrong to mistreat and hurt you. You were right in responding with anger, that is how you are wired to respond in the face of threat. You do not need to forgive yourself. Pray to be able to want their eternal salvation, and pray that God will be merciful to them. That is enough.
Pray to be able to fully forgive. But, I think that when you realize that you honestly do not wish this person to be damned, when you are able to pray for their salvation, when you are able to pray that God be merciful to them, that is as far as forgiveness has to go.
You continue to pray that all anger and bitterness be completely removed from your heart, but maybe you can only go so far right now, emotionally, and simply praying for the person’s salvation is enough, until you are given more graces through prayer.
And, I would just like to add that claiming that this only means you can’t forgive yourself, is NOT a helpful response.
It’s kind of like claiming that cancer is self-induced, and can be cured with the proper mental attitude.
Or, she got raped because her skirt was too short, or she shouldn’t have been in that place, or she should have known what he was like.
It is a means of blaming the victim.
There are times when people do terrible, terrible things to other people. Not forgiving is a way of protecting yourself. It is a way of protecting yourself emotionally and sometimes physically. Telling the person that it is really themselves they can not forgive is a way of saying that this terrible thing that another did to you is really your own fault, so it is really yourself that you are mad at, and yourself that needs forgiveness. I think it is a nonsense response, insulting, and most annoying.
You do not need to forgive yourself. You didn’t do anything to deserve this other person’s abuse. You are innocent in this situation. They were wrong to mistreat and hurt you. You were right in responding with anger, that is how you are wired to respond in the face of threat. You do not need to forgive yourself. Pray to be able to want their eternal salvation, and pray that God will be merciful to them. That is enough.
D
Della
Guest
I agree. But to hang on to the feelings, reliving them again and again is not healthy. At some point he has to simply let it go, doing as you suggest–praying for the other person’s salvation and God’s mercy for them. After all, that’s the heart of forgiveness–to give the person to God and no longer let him hurt you by constantly dredging up hurt feelings–feelings the other person knows nothing about and could care less. So, I agree that’s that person’s sin to bear not the one who has been injured. :tiphat:
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SaintGobban
Guest
I don’t know if you have ever been through the grieving process, but I think grieving for a loss and getting over an event that caused some other deep emotional wound are almost exactly the same thing.
When someone first dies, you want to talk about the person and every aspect of their dying over and over and over, especially if the death was sudden and unexpected.
You dwell on it many times a day. You talk about it whenever there is an opportunity. You live your every day life, but you also live in the past, and your emotions are all over the place.
As the time goes forward, you may get stuck on certain memories of the person which were particularly painful, or problematic. Sometimes this can go on for a long period of time.
But, the more distant the death or trauma, the less and less you dwell, and less and less painful it becomes.
This is not to say that you never think about the person, the event, the past, but it becomes less of a preoccupation. You move on ever so slowly with your life. The emotions are less and less intense.
You don’t exactly “get over” the person or the trauma, but memories do become less emotionally painful most of the time. Sometimes something will happen that will dredge up the person or the trauma, and then the pain comes back almost like it was in the beginning, but most of the time you can cope emotionally, and live in the present.
You wouldn’t tell a person who was grieving to “get over it,” or “just don’t dwell on it.”
If this person is reliving traumatic events, and this is causing her to become murderously angry, it is probably because she needs to relive them, and to feel these emotions, in order to work out the trauma and move on.
In other words, this is a coping mechanism, and it is probably what she should be doing for her mental health.
Getting over certain things, if they were bad enough, just is not possible, however. The traumatic memory will always be there somewhere waiting to resurface. I say whatever you are feeling, go with it, don’t try to suppress the emotion. Don’t ACT on it, of course. But,** feelings **will not hurt you, and might help.
I think it is especially important not to attach guilt to your feelings. Feelings are not sins, and even negative emotions should not always be suppressed and “gotten over,” before you are ready to move on.
I would definitely pray more for the ability to forgive, and by that I mean the ability not to wish evil on the person, at the least not ultimate evil, which is damnation.
It helps me to imagine all of the people who have ever hurt me happy in heaven along with myself.
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Della
Guest
I have been through the grieving process too many times over my many years. I know how it goes and the stages firsthand. But, one needs tools to go through the process not simply let whatever emotions are overwhleming guide every thought and action. It should be a healing process not just an experience one must endure.
A case in point, when my mother died, my sister took it the hardest of us all. She became depressed and sad, every day she thought of nothing else but mother’s death. She felt physically ill, poor girl, this went on for a very, very long time. Nothing we could say or do helped. Finally she consulted her primary care doctor. He simply told her she was suffering from a broken heart, and that was the turning point for her. From that time on she started to assimilate the death and let it go so that she could care for her family and live life again as mother would have wanted her to. Sometimes one simple statement can help a person put things into perspective so he can pull themselves away from contantly dwelling on an unhappy circumstance in his life.
Everyone comes to the point in which they need someone outside the situation to say something that will help them move on. Two years is a long enough time to let someone’s unkindness and betrayal rule one’s life. It’s time for the OP to move on, which is evident from the fact that he, like my sister, asked for advise and help. Some of what we’ve written here is no doubt unhelpful. This is a public forum and everyone is free to chime in, but hopefully, just asking for help and realizing he doesn’t have to grieve/be angry/be unforgiving forever and can move on will help him do that–in his own good time, realizing that others cared enough about him to try to give him a few words of friendly advise. It’s entirely up to him what he takes away from here. I have prayed he will now heal and live a full and happy life. God willing and the OP willing, that’s what will happen.
A case in point, when my mother died, my sister took it the hardest of us all. She became depressed and sad, every day she thought of nothing else but mother’s death. She felt physically ill, poor girl, this went on for a very, very long time. Nothing we could say or do helped. Finally she consulted her primary care doctor. He simply told her she was suffering from a broken heart, and that was the turning point for her. From that time on she started to assimilate the death and let it go so that she could care for her family and live life again as mother would have wanted her to. Sometimes one simple statement can help a person put things into perspective so he can pull themselves away from contantly dwelling on an unhappy circumstance in his life.
Everyone comes to the point in which they need someone outside the situation to say something that will help them move on. Two years is a long enough time to let someone’s unkindness and betrayal rule one’s life. It’s time for the OP to move on, which is evident from the fact that he, like my sister, asked for advise and help. Some of what we’ve written here is no doubt unhelpful. This is a public forum and everyone is free to chime in, but hopefully, just asking for help and realizing he doesn’t have to grieve/be angry/be unforgiving forever and can move on will help him do that–in his own good time, realizing that others cared enough about him to try to give him a few words of friendly advise. It’s entirely up to him what he takes away from here. I have prayed he will now heal and live a full and happy life. God willing and the OP willing, that’s what will happen.
S
SaintGobban
Guest
I do not agree with this statement: "But, one needs tools to go through the process not simply let whatever emotions are overwhleming guide every thought and action. It should be a healing process not just an experience one must endure."I have been through the grieving process too many times over my many years. I know how it goes and the stages firsthand. But, one needs tools to go through the process not simply let whatever emotions are overwhleming guide every thought and action. It should be a healing process not just an experience one must endure.
A case in point, when my mother died, my sister took it the hardest of us all. She became depressed and sad, every day she thought of nothing else but mother’s death. She felt physically ill, poor girl, this went on for a very, very long time. Nothing we could say or do helped. Finally she consulted her primary care doctor. He simply told her she was suffering from a broken heart, and that was the turning point for her. From that time on she started to assimilate the death and let it go so that she could care for her family and live life again as mother would have wanted her to. Sometimes one simple statement can help a person put things into perspective so he can pull themselves away from contantly dwelling on an unhappy circumstance in his life.
Everyone comes to the point in which they need someone outside the situation to say something that will help them move on. Two years is a long enough time to let someone’s unkindness and betrayal rule one’s life. It’s time for the OP to move on, which is evident from the fact that he, like my sister, asked for advise and help. Some of what we’ve written here is no doubt unhelpful. This is a public forum and everyone is free to chime in, but hopefully, just asking for help and realizing he doesn’t have to grieve/be angry/be unforgiving forever and can move on will help him do that–in his own good time, realizing that others cared enough about him to try to give him a few words of friendly advise. It’s entirely up to him what he takes away from here. I have prayed he will now heal and live a full and happy life. God willing and the OP willing, that’s what will happen.
First, the person did not say that they are allowing their emotions, which are overwhelming, to guide every thought and action. You said that. I’m not sure what “tools” you could be referring to here. In fact, healing from emotional injury is a painful process, just as healing from physical injury is a painful process. It does require that one endure emotional pain for as long as it takes to heal. Everyone does this at their own pace. Obviously every person is different, everyone filters things through their own individual psyche, and every loss and trauma is different. Each loss and trauma brings up the pain of past losses and emotional traumas. The more you have experienced, the harder it becomes to “get over” them.
Dealing with loss and grief and trauma is one of the few things in life that doesn’t get easier to do with practice, it gets harder and harder.
I do not agree that everyone needs someone outside to “say something” that will help them move on. It may seem as if there is a cause and effect relationship between ‘someone saying something’ and the person moving on, but that is an illusion. The person moved on because they were ready to move on, not because “someone said something.” There is no magic words to heal grief.
I don’t think this statement is helpful : * “Two years is a long enough time to let someone’s unkindness and betrayal rule one’s life. It’s time for the OP to move on, which is evident from the fact that he, like my sister, asked for advise and help.” * I don’t think anyone is entitled to dictate how long it should take someone else to “get over” something. Who gets to decide when it’s “long enough,” you? The person heals when they heal, or maybe they won’t. This is the old “pull youself up by your bootstraps” cliche that people use when they’ve decided they’re tired of putting up with someone elses’ emotional pain. It certainly doesn’t help the person who is suffering, it only makes them feel worse.
"Sometimes one simple statement can help a person put things into perspective so he can pull themselves away from contantly dwelling on an unhappy circumstance in his life."
So, you honestly believe that the doctor saying that your sister had a broken heart totally turned her life around? And that she was " constantly dwelling on an unhappy circumstance?"
Maybe it was just that, for once, someone ACKNOWLEDGED your sister’s intense grief and ACKNOWLEDGED the fact that she suffered a very painful loss of her mother that enabled her to heal. Someone validated her reality, they noticed that she was really hurt and they understood why. Instead of stating or implying that it was “time for her to get over it,” or that she needed to “stop dwelling on it,” as you are doing here. Maybe her doctor didn’t make her feel like she was wrong to feel and act like she did, which only prolongs the pain.
Maybe the people who are close to those who are grieving or traumatized need the “tools,” which consists simply of human compassion. A compassionate response from loved ones, or even strangers, or even people being paid to be compassionate, like doctors, goes a long way.
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SaintGobban
Guest
I posted a lenghty, thoughtful, and well considered response to the above post.
I did not say one thing that was out of line, although I did disagree with the above post.
My post has since disappeared and there is not a single word anywhere as to why that happened, when it happened, or who made it happen.
Where is my post and why was it removed???
I did not say one thing that was out of line, although I did disagree with the above post.
My post has since disappeared and there is not a single word anywhere as to why that happened, when it happened, or who made it happen.
Where is my post and why was it removed???
O
Oneofthewomen
Guest
This has been a very interesting thread.
I also struggle with the idea of forgiveness.
My spiritual director preached on 9/11/11, and used this quote in the context of his homily.
It has been a great help to me, I hope it can help someone else.
From a preaching resource called Celebration: A Comprehensive Worship
Resource. The name of the priest who writes the quote is Fr. James Smith
in the September 11, 2011 issue.
I also struggle with the idea of forgiveness.
My spiritual director preached on 9/11/11, and used this quote in the context of his homily.
It has been a great help to me, I hope it can help someone else.
From a preaching resource called Celebration: A Comprehensive Worship
Resource. The name of the priest who writes the quote is Fr. James Smith
in the September 11, 2011 issue.
A
Adonia
Guest
As some have said here before, forgiveness can sometimes be a very difficult thing to do. One thing in your favor is you know who you have to forgive. Many years ago I was in a bad situation as regards my personel life and relationships. I knew I was having a serious problem but could not figure out why things were like they were.
And then after a long time it hit me and I knew what it was. It was the actions of one person who was very close to me and they were slow and sustained. I don’t even believe that this person was aware of what they were doing and then I realized that it was just probably how they had been brought up and now it was all coming down on me.
Once I realized all this, I knew the past could not be undone, so coupled with my return to the Church, I just made up my mind that I had to forgive this person in order to get on with my life. I knew that as Christ has forgiven me my many sins, I could not help but do the same to this person. So I just let it all go, gave it all to Our Lord so to speak.
Even today, this person has no idea what they had done to me. I’ve never mentioned it and never will. The past is the past and can never be relived. All we can really do is to move forward and that is what I’ve done.
And perhaps maybe this forgiveness thing is a litter easier for me as things tend to flow right off my back. But work on it and with the help of He who always forgives us, I know you can do it too. God bless!
And then after a long time it hit me and I knew what it was. It was the actions of one person who was very close to me and they were slow and sustained. I don’t even believe that this person was aware of what they were doing and then I realized that it was just probably how they had been brought up and now it was all coming down on me.
Once I realized all this, I knew the past could not be undone, so coupled with my return to the Church, I just made up my mind that I had to forgive this person in order to get on with my life. I knew that as Christ has forgiven me my many sins, I could not help but do the same to this person. So I just let it all go, gave it all to Our Lord so to speak.
Even today, this person has no idea what they had done to me. I’ve never mentioned it and never will. The past is the past and can never be relived. All we can really do is to move forward and that is what I’ve done.
And perhaps maybe this forgiveness thing is a litter easier for me as things tend to flow right off my back. But work on it and with the help of He who always forgives us, I know you can do it too. God bless!
- Status