Why can't I take communion at a Catholic service?

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PeterC:
Episcopal Alternative?

I am a non practicing Roman Catholic who, according to the Roman Church, has not been in the State of Grace for over twenty years due to divorce and re-marriage. I have, from time to time, attended Mass refraining from receiving the sacrament of Holy Communion. In the earlier years I did receive after convincing myself it was ok. In later years, and presently, I do not physically receive in the Roman Catholic Church, however, I do from time to time receive in spirit only. More recently I have received in the Episcopal Church since I have learned I am welcomed to do so and not prohibited by cannon.

My wife is an active Congregationalist. I have attended services with her on many occasions but have never felt quite right about it. I do receive Communion when attending services at the Congregational Church. When I do receive I pray to Jesus for his understanding that I am participating in a community ceremony in remembrance of Him and I do not consider the bread and wine His body and blood. I do, however, believe in the True Presence in the Roman Catholic Mass and the Episcopal Eucharist.

My wife and I want to attend a church together as active and faithful members. It is important for both of us for many reasons. The most important reason for me is to fully practice my faith and to receive the sacrament of Communion leading to a State Of Grace in good conscience and on a regular basis. The service or mass is always a very emotional experience for me; especially when I feel the absence of Christ when the faithful are receiving.

I have only recently learned and now I truly believe that in the Episcopal Church the actual presence of the Body and Blood of Christ is in the Host. I was taught otherwise, thus I was under a different impression. My sister and her husband (who is becoming a Roman Catholic Deacon) has assured me of this fact. The good news is obvious. I can fully practice my faith in the Episcopal Church! The Nicene Creed recited in the Episcopal Eucharist further confirms my faith and gives me the “go ahead” to become an Episcopalian. I can actually feel the tug. This is the best news I have received in years.

Guidance? ……
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As a former episcopalian a few thoughts.

In respect of your marriage, I don’t know if you have discussed this with a priest, you may or may not be in the position that your first marriage could be annuled. Our priest recently stated, when discussing the diocesan meeting for those affected by marriage/remarriage/divorce that the process is generally pretty quick nowadays, it may not be a hopeless situation. Fr Serpa, CA Apologist also notes these matters are often quickly resolved. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=236593#post236593
Why not post in the Ask an Apologist forum or private message one of the Apologists?

In respect of the real presence in Episcopal Churches, two points.

1 - Belief in the Anglican communion goes all the way from a Catholic understanding through to a real presence, but not transubstantiation through to memorial only. Depends entirely on the parish you go to. Similarly you will only find confession in Anglo Catholic parishes, etc.

2 - The Eucharist in the parish you go to might be valid. The ‘higher’ (i.e. more Anglo Catholic you go, the more likely.) The Church does not believe Anglican Orders are valid (Apostolae Curae), however many Anglican Bishops since then were consecrated or reconsecrated by Old Catholic or Orthodox Bishops which makes their Holy Orders ‘valid, if illicit,’ I have heard it described.

I would really investigate the annulment route. It sounds like you only want to leave so you can recieve the Eucharist, which I fully understand.

Hope this helps.
 
I would like to point out that I DO believe in transubstantiation. I DO believe in the True Presence. Please stop telling me I don’t. What I didn’t understand was that when you take communion you are saying Amen to ALL Catholic beliefs. And as far as becoming a Catholic there are some things that I disagree with the Catholic church on. Therefore I will not become a Catholic.
 
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Arwen037:
I would like to point out that I DO believe in transubstantiation. I DO believe in the True Presence. Please stop telling me I don’t. What I didn’t understand was that when you take communion you are saying Amen to ALL Catholic beliefs. And as far as becoming a Catholic there are some things that I disagree with the Catholic church on. Therefore I will not become a Catholic.
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Im glad you brought that up Arwen. The fact is you don’t have to believe in everything the church says but as a Catholic you have the responsibility not to lead everyone else on. Let me give you and example. John Kerry has the right to support abortion if he wants, however he does NOT have the right to perpetuate it and pass on his pro-choice views to others.
 
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StratusRose:
Im glad you brought that up Arwen. The fact is you don’t have to believe in everything the church says but as a Catholic you have the responsibility not to lead everyone else on. Let me give you and example. John Kerry has the right to support abortion if he wants, however he does NOT have the right to perpetuate it and pass on his pro-choice views to others.
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Kevin We were always taught that yes indeed we had to believe what the church taught. John Kerry does have the right to support abortion but he ought not then call himself Catholic.To not get completely off topic a short reply to Arwen.You are not
IN communion with the church.
 
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PeterC:
Episcopal Alternative?
Guidance? ……*
PeterC~
For many years & for many reasons, I wrestled with whether or not I was Episcopalian or Roman Catholic. Reading these sentences in the (Episcopalian) Book of Common Prayer was a turning point for me:

“Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of bread and wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ, but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.”

and,

“It is hereby declared, That thereby no adoration is intended, or ought to be done, either unto the Sacramental Bread or Wine there bodily received, or unto any Corporal Presence of Christ’s natural Flesh and Blood. For the Sacramental Bread and Wine remain still in their very natural substances, and therefore may not be adored; (for that were Idolatry, to be abhorred of all faithful Christians) and the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ are in Heaven, and not here; it being against the truth of Christ’s natural Body to be at one time in more places than one.”

Episcopalians believe in consubstantiation, not transubstantiation, as these articles of faith explain. I share this with you out of my sincere wish to encourage you to persevere in your efforts & journey to join in full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church, and in reception of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ that is truly present in the Eucharist!

God bless!

StephanieC
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If you believe that Our Lord is present in Holy Communion and you also believe all the revieled truths in The Holy Catholic Church you can get special permission from the Bishop.God Bless
 
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Anne:
Kevin We were always taught that yes indeed we had to believe what the church taught. John Kerry does have the right to support abortion but he ought not then call himself Catholic.To not get completely off topic a short reply to Arwen.You are not
IN communion with the church.
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My name is KIM.

Kevin Smith is quoted on my signature.

One more thing, if she doesnt agree with everything the church says then she doesnt have to RIGHT AWAY. Sometimes understanding comes with praying and time. I didnt agree with the whole birth control issue at first but after praying about it and thinking about it more, I accepted it. Does that make me a bad Catholic? No. God wants us to understand things that he wants for us and if it takes some time then that’s ok.
 
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StephanieC:
PeterC~
For many years & for many reasons, I wrestled with whether or not I was Episcopalian or Roman Catholic. Reading these sentences in the (Episcopalian) Book of Common Prayer was a turning point for me:

“Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of bread and wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ, but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.”

and,

“It is hereby declared, That thereby no adoration is intended, or ought to be done, either unto the Sacramental Bread or Wine there bodily received, or unto any Corporal Presence of Christ’s natural Flesh and Blood. For the Sacramental Bread and Wine remain still in their very natural substances, and therefore may not be adored; (for that were Idolatry, to be abhorred of all faithful Christians) and the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ are in Heaven, and not here; it being against the truth of Christ’s natural Body to be at one time in more places than one.”

Episcopalians believe in consubstantiation, not transubstantiation, as these articles of faith explain. I share this with you out of my sincere wish to encourage you to persevere in your efforts & journey to join in full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church, and in reception of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ that is truly present in the Eucharist!

God bless!

StephanieC
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These come from the 39 articles which defined the Anglican faith after the reformation. Episcopalians don’t believe in consubstantiation, that’s the Lutherans. They believe in (I) transubstantiation (Anglo Catholics), who would repudiate the 39 Articles, (II) some sort of real presence or eaten in a ‘heavenly and spiritual manner’ (middle of the road Episcopalian ) or (III) in no presence - memorial only (Evangelical Anglicans)
 
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Arwen037:
I would like to thank you all for pointing out the accepting all the beliefs part. It’s just that I spent about 5 years getting told that I couldn’t take communion at a Catholic church because I didn’t believe in the True Presence of Christ. And to be told that’s the reason why, when you do believe it, kinda seems like you’re being excluded for no reason.
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AAAARRrrgggghhhhh! Tearing my hair out here that you – who obviously are capable of understanding more than a two-syllable canned answer – got such a simplistic response. I apologize for everybody in the world who does this to non-Catholics. And I apologize for all the priests who, at weddings and funerals, invite non-Catholics to receive the Eucharist “if they believe it is the Body of Christ and are in good standing in their own churches.” How confusing IS this!

Thank you for ASKING the question! Yes: receiving Communion indicates ACTUAL Communion and affirmation of all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches. That’s a pretty big elephant to swallow! (But every morsel is delicious!) I speak as a convert.
 
The Apostles were taught by Jesus for 3 years before they were rewarded with the Last Supper. You have to know what you are receiving and come to believe in it otherwise it means nothing. I spent many years sitting in the pews before I became Catholic. I was asked to go up for a blessing one day. This day, this line I walked in, stood in, changed my life forever. I wanted to know about this line, about what was being received. I went to the RCIA in a Utah Parish and learned about the Eucharist. The biggest event in my life was receiving it for the first time. It would be sad to receive the Body and Blood o Christ and not know what one is receiving.

“The Apostles were taught by Jesus for 3 years before they were rewarded with the Last Supper”

God Bless
Rich
www.catholic-rcia.com
 
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Arwen037:
I would like to point out that I DO believe in transubstantiation. I DO believe in the True Presence. Please stop telling me I don’t. What I didn’t understand was that when you take communion you are saying Amen to ALL Catholic beliefs. And as far as becoming a Catholic there are some things that I disagree with the Catholic church on. Therefore I will not become a Catholic.
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Simply put, your minister does not have the ability to confect the Eucharist…

To believe in the true presence of Jesus in the sacrament of Communion and then receive “communion” in a Protestant group would smack of idolatry…
 
:The Lutheran understanding is NOT the same as the Catholic understanding. Some (not all) Lutherans believe in “consubstantiation”, which is not the same understanding as “transubstantiation”, the Catholic belief.:

Lutherans do not generally use the word “consubstantiation.” What they teach is that Christ is “in, with, and under” the bread and wine. This is not identical with the Catholic view, but it differs only in some rather abstruse nuances (depending on what we mean by things like “substance” and “species”). In terms of what most laypeople believe, I don’t think it’s significantly different. Furthermore, this is official teaching, not just what “some Lutherans” believe. Luther himself said that he was far closer to the Catholic view than to that of other Protestants (“I’d rather drink pure blood with the papists than pure wine with the sacramentarians”). Lutheran polemic against Catholicism focuses on the issue of grace and merit, not on the question of the Real Presence. Lutherans have had far fiercer conflict with other Protestants on that particular issue than with Catholics.

Where Lutherans have historically differed sharply from Catholicism in regard to the Eucharist is in regards to whether the Eucharist is a sacrifice. Historically, Lutherans regarded the Catholic view of the Eucharistic sacrifice as a form of “salvation by works.”

As for Anglicans, I have only encountered one Anglican (on the Internet, at that) who believed the Eucharist was purely a memorial, and he left for Methodism (partly egged on by my rather vitriolic attacks on his position; I had just dropped out of RCIA at the time and was feeling very defensive about my decision to stay Episcopalian; may God forgive me for unloading my problems on this poor guy whom I didn’t even know). When I was being catechized in preparation for confirmation in ECUSA, I quoted the 39 Articles to my rector and was told that IV Lateran trumps the Articles because it is a Council of the whole Western Church. This admittedly is a fairly extreme Anglo-Catholic position (I have learned to my cost since moving to NJ just how exceptional this particular parish was), but it’s a far more common perspective than a purely “memorial” view.

None of this is to say that we should be allowed to intercommune with Catholics. But you should focus on ecclesiology, not Eucharistic theology. Saying, “you can’t receive communion because you don’t believe in the Real Presence” masks the real reason for refusal of communion and lands you in endless debate if you say it to a Lutheran or Anglican.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
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Arwen037:
Yes I do.
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Then I ask you, how can you stay away from him. No other christian religion believes that the actual body, blood. soul & divinity is present in the Eucharist. Please, ask your Lutheran minister, not only do they not believe that it is there, but know they are not qualified to acheieve this from the HOly Spirit.

If the Catholic Church is the only one that acomplishes what our Lord asked us to do then why are you strolling and not running to him! I did! You will be amazed when you are in communion with him.

If the Catholic Church is right about this what else is she right about?
 
I am in no way insulting your religion. Why are you insulting mine? I am trying to get answers and all I’m getting from most people are statements that have no basis in fact. You guys even say MOST lutherans believe in consubstanciation. I am from a group that believes in transubstanciation. Quit telling me what I do, and no not believe. Try studying Lutheranism for 5 years and see if maybe you have a better understanding of our religion. I’m only asking after 5 years of studying Catholisism.
 
Arwen,

Your question was answered correctly early on: receiving the Eucharist (regardless of whether you believe in transubstantiation or not—I’ll take your word for it that you do) means being in communion with the Church. That’s your answer. You have stated that you don’t agree with much of what the Church holds up as doctrine to be assented to—therefore, end of story.

I’m not insulting your religion. As I stated earlier, If some Lutheran service I attended, such as a friend’s wedding, included some ritual that meant “I believe everything that Lutherans believe in”, I would not participate. Nor would I feel slighted, or feel that my “rights” had been violated.
 
: No other christian religion believes that the actual body, blood. soul & divinity is present in the Eucharist.:

This is ignorant bunk. Even if you think you know better than us Anglicans and Lutherans what we believe (arrogant and ridiculous as that is), you surely can’t claim that the Orthodox don’t believe that Christ is fully present?

: Please, ask your Lutheran minister, not only do they not believe that it is there, but know they are not qualified to acheieve this from the HOly Spirit.:

This kind of arrogant nonsense just isn’t going to get you anywhere. The only people you are presumably trying to influence know already that what you are saying is false. Lutherans believe that the whole Christ is present in the Eucharist. I’ve never understood what certain bombastic Catholics think they are affirming when they insist on the “Soul and Divinity” as if that is somehow a stronger view of the Real Presence than the Body and Blood. All Protestants believe that the Divinity of Christ is present. It’s the Body and Blood that are controversial.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
From my understanding, Lutherans believe that in the Real Presence but once Mass is over, the Real Presence is gone. Catholics do not believe it is gone. For example, Catholics store the “leftovers” in a tabernacle because it is Christ body and blood. From my understanding, Lutherans could take the “leftovers” and throw them away if they wanted to. Is that correct?
 
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Arwen037:
. I’ve been told that I can’t take communion at Catholic services because Lutherans don’t believe the same thing about communion as Catholics do.
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Arwen, After almost 5 years in the Catholic school, I should think you would have caught on to the fact that the Catholics are “receiving” Holy Communion, not “taking” it.

There is more than a subtle difference here, especially since you seem to believe that you have some sort of right to the Eucharist. It’s not something to be taken. :tsktsk:

Anna
 
I think we should stop lecturing Arwen on what he believes; he already made that clear. He DOES believe in the Real Presence and he DOES believe in TRANsubstantiation, not CONsubstantiation, so lay off him. Never mind what the other Lutherans say.

Now just to confirm. Arwen, we would love you have you at Communion, but as previous posters already indicated, to do so would be to declare a communion between us that doesn’t as of yet exist. We have common understandings, but the fact is that we are separated. And we do appreciate the gesture separated communities extend to us by inviting us to partake of their own Communion, but we can’t, because WE would be declaring a communion that also doesn’t exist. Neither of us would be true to ourselves and to our faith.

I would encourage you to study more on the Catholic faith and what we believe. Hopefully soon, that day will come when you can truly receive Holy Communion with us.
 
I’m sorry if you took that as a personal insult Sherlock. I was responding to motorman. He was insulting my religion. As you said I’ve ponted out that I don’t agree with everything the Catholic church says, therefore I won’t be joining it. But motorman (and others) don’t seem to be able to get it through their heads that I’m not joining the Catholic church. So in hopes that it will get through to some people: I AM NOT JOINING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I DON’T SHARE ENOUGH OF THE CATHOLIC BELIEFS THAT I WOULD JOIN IT. I DO BELIEVE IN TRANSUBSTANCIATION. JUST BECAUSE MAY RELIGION IS NON0CATHOLIC DOESN’T MEAN IT IS A PAGAN RELIGION. DON’T ACT LIKE IT IS. To those of you who are being patient and have been actually trying to explain this and not using it just as an excuse to tell me to join the catholic church, I extend my thanks.
 
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