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tabycat
Guest
If that is what ‘they’ want, then ‘they’ have converted themselves out of existents.
Why can't liberal gay activists see that we would leave them alone if they would stop attacking the Catholic Church?
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Crescentinus
Guest
Hence, their need for more converts. We must deny them what they seek!If that is what ‘they’ want, then ‘they’ have converted themselves out of existents.
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feed_me
Guest
Use the Force Luke.
People wont stop attacking the Catholic Church because Satan is behind them. Its the simple fact that they just hate Christ and Satan is feeding those emotions, and they hate you because you stand up for Christ. Even Christ said that they hated him for no reason at all.
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BobCatholic
Guest
The problem is that certain homosexuals don’t want to just live in a secular culture. You’ll see cases of homosexuals suing people and the Church for not accepting their doctrines.
They want to impose their viewpoint on others.
Perfect example: Homosexuals want to adopt children. Fine. Secular government says OK. That’s not enough. When Catholic Charities doesn’t want to adopt to homosexual couples because that’s their religious viewpoint, the homosexual activists sued and forced the secular government to force the Catholic Charities to make the adoptions. The Catholic Charities had to no longer do adoptions in those places.
No religious freedom for the Catholic Church thanks to leftist activists.
The leftist activists generally do not like it when people have a differing opinion, and seek to hurt and destroy those who disagree with them.
And if you want to compare what we do to what they do, we do not lobby the government to force conversions to the Catholic faith, or sue to impose our beliefs on others.
Basically it sounds like you do not believe that the Catholic Church should not have any freedom of speech or freedom of religion to disagree with the leftist activists.
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edwest2
Guest
In the 1970s and 1980s, sex was a private matter, gay or straight. I worked with gays, lesbians and bi-sexuals and it was normal not to discuss our sex lives. We got along. Same-sex marriage was not even on the radar.
I never cringed when I had to work with anyone who was gay or whatever. We got our jobs done, we were polite to each other. The end.
Recently, since millions of voters rejected the idea - a social engineering idea - gay activists went and convinced a handful of judges, politicians and heads of corporations to endorse gay behavior. And they’re confrontational, angry and in your face. And the media is 100% on board. Gay behavior in cartoons, comics and computer games.
But now, in order to rally their troops, leading gay activists have to demonize the enemy. So, to raise morale, you have to tell the troops that the enemy are bigots, filled with hate, are against fairness and forcing gays not to have something they never had before in the US - a radical redefinition of family.
Who’s stopping them from living how they want and Why Do They Need My Approval on the ballot? Why?
Other posters are right. Force is being used and the message is: you’re going to accept it and you will regard it as normal or, at worst, neutral.
And to all gay Catholics, we all have our crosses to bear. The Bible tells us to expect trials and suffering, and by this, we will be refined and purified like gold. I sincerely want to love everybody.
Peace,
Ed
I never cringed when I had to work with anyone who was gay or whatever. We got our jobs done, we were polite to each other. The end.
Recently, since millions of voters rejected the idea - a social engineering idea - gay activists went and convinced a handful of judges, politicians and heads of corporations to endorse gay behavior. And they’re confrontational, angry and in your face. And the media is 100% on board. Gay behavior in cartoons, comics and computer games.
But now, in order to rally their troops, leading gay activists have to demonize the enemy. So, to raise morale, you have to tell the troops that the enemy are bigots, filled with hate, are against fairness and forcing gays not to have something they never had before in the US - a radical redefinition of family.
Who’s stopping them from living how they want and Why Do They Need My Approval on the ballot? Why?
Other posters are right. Force is being used and the message is: you’re going to accept it and you will regard it as normal or, at worst, neutral.
And to all gay Catholics, we all have our crosses to bear. The Bible tells us to expect trials and suffering, and by this, we will be refined and purified like gold. I sincerely want to love everybody.
Peace,
Ed
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Seeker1961
Guest
Like extremists in any other arena, gay activists are a VERY loud and very small group of people. Gay people are 10% of the population if that-activists are less than 1% of that 10%. Yes, they’re loud and they can be rude but they do NOT represent ALL gay people. It would be like saying Fred Phelps and his crew represent ALL Christians. There are angry, bitter, hostile people in just about every group in society and Satan uses them ALL for his own means.
Being a part of the community-I do know quite a few gay people and here is their agenda: They go to work, they pay their taxes, they go grocery shopping-they even go to church. They don’t go to our church if they live with partners, but there are churches that accept it and they do go to them. Those that want marriage want it for the same reason a lot of heterosexual folks want it-financial reasons. They aren’t interested in being where they aren’t wanted, but since they work here and pay taxes here, and in some cases have served their country-they want the same financial benefits straight couples have. My gay friends accept my choice to live my faith and have never given me a hard time about it. Do I hope that my example will lead others to the same choice, of course-but that’s God’s job to change their hearts. All I can do is show them by my witness that it can be done and you can still live a life of joy.
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GraceSofia
Guest
God bless you!
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GraceSofia
Guest
Maybe I’m weird, but I question that sexual identity is sooooo central. I wonder if that is just a deception we’ve bought into thanks to experts who told us Freud’s idea of man was right.
Agree.
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stevekehl
Guest
Homosexual activists don’t want the church to leave them alone. They want the church to validate their sin and say the marriage of two men is as pleasing to God as my marriage to my wife. To that end they will agitate until they get what they want.Huh? Gay activists don’t want the Church to leave them alone??
Of course they do!
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Bradski
Guest
Personally I could care less what you believe. In fact I would support your right to hold whatever belief you wished. But you don’t have to accept mine and I don’t have to accept yours. That sounds about right, doesn’t it? Do you think that everyone should believe exactly what you believe? I sincerely hope not. So there’s an inherent acceptance in that that you need to accept that others will believe different things and that is a natural and acceptable state of affairs.
No-one is asking for your approval as much as you’d like to think that your view is that important. And if you did remain in the background a lot of people would appreciate it. Unfortunately, the church (and Christianity in general) has been pretty much in everyone’s faces since Day 1 on the matter of homosexuality. People were afraid to admit that they were gay in times past (and, unfortunately, in some places in the present time), but now they feel they can make their arguments without the fear of violence or of being ostracised.
Maybe you should move elsewhere before they make it compulsory.
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PeterJohn
Guest
I don’t buy into the whole feel sorry for gay people because they are afraid to admit they are gay. I’m a Christian and people don’t like me because of it but that will never stop me admitting it. Christians used to be KILLED because they admitted to being a follower of Christ. My sister is a lesbian and she lives her life in the closet. That her own stupidity. I will not let fear define my life and I have little respect for those who do let it define theirs.
I do want you to believe exactly what I believe because I belive it’s the truth and I sincerely hope you wouldn’t want to believe a lie.
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PeterJohn
Guest
I do want you to believe exactly what I do, because I believe it is the truth and I sincerely hope you don’t want to believe in lies(can you blame me?)
In people’s faces since day 1?? C’mon get real.
Allot of people would appreciate it if we were to stay in the background?? Wow, that’s like saying your opinion doesn’t matter if you don’t agree with me so please don’t cast your vote. C’mon, Christians are the majority in the states and the majority should at least have a say.
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livingwordunity
Guest
Today’s debate about marriage was started by the liberals and “gay” activists within the last 20 or 30 years. Before that, the fact that marriage is between one man and one woman was common sense.
Marriage was created one man and one woman by God long before Jesus established his Church. But when Jesus (God) was asked about marriage, he said that it should be as it was in the beginning (Adam and Eve), and he made it a sacrament of the Church with his presence at the Wedding at Cana.
There is no law forcing anyone to be a Catholic. Even though God wishes everyone could see that being a slave to the sins of the flesh won’t lead anyone to true love and happiness the Catholic Church teaches that God gave us the free will to accept God and his laws or reject him.
If you hate the Catholic Church that much you are free to leave and deal with the consequences of your decision. The Catholic Church is only the messenger, but the message is God’s word. Therefore, if you reject the message you are rejecting God.
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Bradski
Guest
‘Homosexuality is wrong’ is not The Truth. It is a religious belief. It is your religion that believes it. There are other religions that don’t hold to that. There are people who have the same religion as you who do not hold to that. If it is your ultimate intent to have everyone believe exactly what you believe, you are advocating a theocracy. If that is not the case, then you must accept that others will hold different views to you and you surely must support that freedom.
Well there’s me thinking you guys were declaring it an abomination and punishable by death since the Church started. That’s pretty much in your face from Day 1 isn’t it? At least you’ve toned it down a little since.
You misunderstand me. I don’t want your opinions (and I’m glad you didn’t say The Truth) to be stifled. I think you have every right to declare homosexuality wrong. I’ve got no problem if you don’t want your church to marry gay people. I would appreciate it if you did ‘cast your vote’ against it because that indicates to me that you consider that being in the majority counts.
I agree with you heart and soul that the majority should have a say in what happens in one’s own country. I’d love you to make up a few bumper stickers along the lines of ‘We’re the majority and that’s what counts!’
But being in the majority doesn’t mean that the statement ‘Gay Marriage is Wrong’ is a fact. It’s just the majority opinion. When, in a short time, the majority thinks that ‘Gay Marriage is OK’, it won’t be a fact either. It will be the majority opinion. You can then peel that sticker off and give it to the gay couple down the road. They’d appreciate the irony.
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GraceSofia
Guest
Up to the point where homosexualists want to redefine marriage for the rest of us.
You have brought up the majority. Every time the people have been allowed to vote, they have voted against homosexual “marriage.” Where homosexual “marriage” has been legalised, it has been because homosexualist activists have resorted to coercion through legislatures and courts.
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Lochias
Guest
The history of the Catholic Church gives it the pedigree and the authority to claim such Truths, unlike other religions. This is a “mere” matter of history, impersonal and objective.
Our goal is for everyone to love as we love. You do not yet understand the Catholic stance on such matters well enough to speak on it with much credibility, as evidenced why what you’re saying thusfar.
We support the freedom of free will, because that is what God supports. When our country tells us what we must and must not endorse and provide for others, despite what our religion and rules tell us, our freedoms as Catholics and as citizens are taken away. If you support that in any way, shape or form, then you are a complete and utter hypocrite.
We wish everyone would follow God’s laws, and we will always exercise our public speech and freedom of example to show that, but I cannot recall a single moment in time when I or any Catholic I know forced a homosexual man to support the Church with their money, despite what they chose to believe.
And now you’re toning it up. If you think we’ve “toned it down”, why the shouting now? Just like making noise?
Whatever happens, the Church will be there to teach by example and compassion.
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Crescentinus
Guest
Indeed. It is ultimately hypocritical when homosexualists tell people to be more tolerant, when it is they themselves who cannot tolerate their opposition.
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Crescentinus
Guest
I live in the Far East. The difference between the Far East and the West is that there are plenty of homosexualists in the latter.
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rossum
Guest
Because the Catholic Church won’t leave them alone in its turn. When same sex Civil Partnership was proposed in the UK, the Catholic Bishops issued a statement against it:
We believe the government’s proposals to create civil partnerships for same sex couples would not promote the common good, and we therefore strongly oppose them.
Source: Clarification on Civil Partnerships
This was Civil Partnership, not marriage. The legislation specifically forbade any Civil Partnerships taking place in any religious building, even for liberal denominations like Quakers or some Liberal synagogues that might have wished to. (An infringement on religious liberty that the Catholic Bishops appear to have ignored.)
This was purely civil legislation, with no effect on the ability of the Catholic Church to refuse to perform such ceremonies.
Despite this, the Catholic Bishops weighed in against the proposals. If you want people to leave you alone, then in return you have to leave them alone. If you come out in public against purely civil legislation then you should expect to receive criticism.
$0.02
rossum
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karoleck
Guest
Can I take up with you this statement that you have made and I quote from the above-
“Homosexuality is wrong’ is not The Truth. It is a religious belief. It is your religion that believes it.”
Firstly,The Catholic Church does not believe or teach this!! The Catholic Church states in 2358 of The Catechism
“The number of men and woman who have deep seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible.They do not choose their homosexual condition;for most of them it is a trial.They must be accepted with respect,compassion,and sensitivity,every sign of discrimination in their regard should be avoided.These persons are called to forfill God’s will in their lives and,if they are Christians,to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’sCross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”
again in 2359"
Homosexual persons are called to chastity.By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom,at times by the support of disinterested friendship,by prayer and sacramental grace,they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection"
As you can see from these two authoritative teachings,you have misrepresented what is the catholic approach to a person with a same sex attraction.
Now here is “catch 22”! As you have seen from the two above quotes,a same sex attraction in a person is morally neutral .However in 2357 the Catholic Church does say -
–"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture,which presents homosexual acts as **acts **of depravity,tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disorded”
You will notice that I made bold the words ACTS because here is the rub,an inclination to do something is not a sin but the doing or acting out of this disorder is.This is not just a “catholic” position as 2357 continues
"They are contrary to the natural law" .
As an example of natural law, I would maintain that a same sex “marriage” is just so obvious as an unnatural outlook.( I have yet to see two male birds preparing a nest in the spring to lay and hatch non existing eggs!!–it is against natural law–even evident in the bird and animal kingdom–you seem to suggest that a human is above the laws of nature–so are you claiming a supernatural belief system for yourself I wonder?
So society should always uphold what is written in everyones heart,even be it by a non believer, as you claim for yourself.By taking the position that you are doing ,I believe that you are not being true to your very nature ,as a human being( male/female)
As catholics who are also citizens and live within a secular society,we have every right and in fact an obligation to uphold natural moral laws and also help to create a just society using the priciples of “the common good”.The push for same sex “marriage” is certainly not in the interests of the common good of our democratic society.
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