Why can't Lutherans accept the Eucharist as a RC mass?

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FrDavid96 said:
It changes nothing.

You are still taking quotes and manipulating them in an attempt to say that which they are not saying.

It is exactly this type of misrepresentation that prompted the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to issue this clarification.

The vastness of the subject matter and the novelty of many of the themes involved continue to provoke theological reflection. Among the many new contributions to the field, some are not immune from erroneous interpretation which in turn give rise to confusion and doubt. A number of these interpretations have been referred to the attention of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Given the universality of Catholic doctrine on the Church, the Congregation wishes to respond to these questions by clarifying the authentic meaning of some ecclesiological expressions used by the magisterium which are open to misunderstanding in the theological debate.
…
According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
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Father David, God Bless you for your patience.

Like Jon and GKC have said, several of us have tried, unsuccessfully, to present what the documents actually say. He will not listen.

One of EC’s favorite documents “The Church As Koinonia Of Salvation: Its Structures And Ministries” clearly states:
This dialogue also recognizes that we are not proposing to settle all of the church-dividing issues before us. We have not attempted to resolve the important ecclesiological issues of the ordination of women or the authority by which such a decision is made, nor the full meaning of apostolic succession in ordained ministry and how we might be reconciled. We have not addressed the level of communion in ministries and structures that would be necessary for even interim Eucharistic communion. We are, however, convinced that the clarifications and research represented by this text make an important contribution in the stages toward reconciling these and other elements along the path toward full communion.
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(Emphasis mine).

On the women’s ordination subject, I continually have to link “Ordenatio Sacerdotalis” .

In fact, it’s so much that I have a CAF bookmark on my browser with both documents…

Again, thanks for your contribution.

Peace,
 
JonNC said:
Yes. I think Cr. Ratzinger knew who he was talking to, and if he had meant only a general presence in his comment to the bishop, it would have appeared patronizing, given his knowledge of Lutheran Eucharistic belief. Hence, I believe he meant more than that

Jon
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I was referring to you not Pope Benedict.
 
re: original question. . . the answer is. … because you’re NOT CATHOLIC!
 
Anyone familiar with George Weigel, Catholic lay author? I thought he was a Lutheran. Weigel wrote ‘Evangelical Catholicism: Deep Reform in the 21st-Century Catholic Church’.
 
JonNC said:
I’m sorry you feel that way. It wasn’t my intention. All I can say is Jose and GKC seem to have a similar view.

Jom
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I certainly feel FrDavid’s is the correct understanding in this. And felt so, before he spoke.

GKC
 
JonNC said:
I’m sorry you feel that way. It wasn’t my intention. ** All I can say is Jose and GKC seem to have a similar view. **
Jom
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:yawn:

Glad the Lutheran and Catholic churches don’t agree with you.
 
Per_Crucem said:
But Catholics will commune Orthodox even though the Orthodox are separate from Rome.
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IIRC we’re only allowed, under the canons, to commune with Rome (from the Roman side) when there is an emergency, or we have permission from our bishops. I’ve never heard of a Catholic priest who communes Orthodox bothering to check that second one, meaning most Orthodox who are communed in Catholic parishes shouldn’t be under their own rules.
 
Our Lutheran denomination is even more restricted than Lutherans/Catholics. We don’t even let other Lutherans into communion. This is a mixed bag of course.

On one hand doctrinal purity is extremely important to our synod, I mean really important. That’s good because you know what you’re getting when you step into a WELS church.

On the other hand there is really no doctrinal difference that I can think of that’s very big between us and the conservative LCMS folks. At least nothing big enough for separate communion. Seems pretty insular and closed off.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Our Lutheran denomination is even more restricted than Lutherans/Catholics. We don’t even let other Lutherans into communion. This is a mixed bag of course.

On one hand doctrinal purity is extremely important to our synod, I mean really important. That’s good because you know what you’re getting when you step into a WELS church.

On the other hand there is really no doctrinal difference that I can think of that’s very big between us and the conservative LCMS folks. At least nothing big enough for separate communion. Seems pretty insular and closed off.
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Cheese vs Mud Pie?

😃
 
Nine_Two said:
IIRC we’re only allowed, under the canons, to commune with Rome (from the Roman side) when there is an emergency, or we have permission from our bishops. I’ve never heard of a Catholic priest who communes Orthodox bothering to check that second one, meaning most Orthodox who are communed in Catholic parishes shouldn’t be under their own rules.
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True. But that still would mean that simple separation from communion with Rome is not the deciding factor as to whether a member of another church can receive.
 
Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. John 6:35
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What I find curious is a preoccupation by some to absolutely limit/ restrict access to Christ in the most holy Sacrament. It is as if they don’t want others to benefit from the forgiveness of sins and eternal life that Christ invites us to receive in his life-giving Body and Blood. One poster goes even further and declares that Jesus is not even present at Lutheran altars. While some Lutherans forbid their members from even taking holy Communion at other Lutheran churches.

What is the motivation for this? Where does Scripture support such thinking?
 
This citation of the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue makes it abundantly clear:
They also agree that the efficacy of believers reception of the Lord cannot be measured by human standards but belongs to the sphere of the free and humanly uncontrollable action of God.
raadvankerken.nl/fman/3246.pdf
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