Why can't men with SSA be ordained priests?

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There are men with SSA who have habituated the virtue of chastity. The Catechism notes that “[t]he virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions” (1803). Wouldn’t that mean that it’s not a constant issue?

I guess the issue here is… is “deep-seated” (or “deeply rooted” in the Italian) opposed to able-to-live-chastely?
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
It says “deep-seated”. That basically means “prone to temptation and may have lived scandalously before becoming priests.”
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So in your view, if a man’s primary and persistent sexual attraction could be toward other men, but he is not “prone to temptation” (by which I assume you mean some kind of compulsive sexual behavior), then his homosexual tendencies—though they may perdure indefinitely—are not deep-seated. Is that right?
 
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He’d have to discuss his past life, lifestyle and anything else relevant with the head of whatever group (religious order, seminary, diocese etc) he was trying to join and they would make the decision whether he was a good candidate.

I personally would not consider it “deep seated” if a man had shown by his past lifestyle and habits that he was in control of his sex drive and didn’t succumb to temptation. I personally am not the one making the decisions about vocations admissions however, and I’m sure the people who do make these decisions have a wealth of personal experience to draw on about who fits in and who creates problems later.
 
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rosejmj said:
There is an article on First things written by a man living with SSA. He lives out the Catholic teaching on chastity and he strongly believes that men with SSA should not enter the priesthood. He says chastity is often more difficult for them and often there is some psychological reasons behind it too. Not there fault so I understand how it can seem unfair. It is definitely a cross for anyone with SSA, whether or not they follow Church teaching or not
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Yes! Dan Mattson (who wrote the book “Why I Don’t Call Myself Gay”) has an excellent article at First Things.


He lists two reasons:
  1. It’s harder for a homosexual person to live the demands of chastity
  2. If you aren’t living it, you aren’t going to feel compelled to preach it
 
commenter said:
I think the distinction between “deep seated,” and others who MAY be ordained, needs to be explained more.
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This is the crux, and the point of ambiguity in the document.

Back in 2016, when the Pope promulgated The Gift of the Priestly Vocation (the new ratio guiding seminary formation), Fr. Louis Cameli of the Archdiocese of Chicago wrote an article in L’Osservatore Romano pointing out the ambiguity.

The full text is over at (… gasp!) America.

www.americamagazine.org

The Catholic Church doesn’t bar all gay men from priesthood, Vatican newspaper suggests

Father Louis J. Cameli writes that the church’s instructions on candidates for the priesthood do not explicitly prohibit gay men.
www.americamagazine.org www.americamagazine.org

I actually think it’s good, except, my one question would be:

If your experience is not indicative of those four incidences, but your primary and persisent attractions are toward the same-sex, can you be said to have “deep-seated” homosexual tendencies? Or are your attractions, which perdure, somehow not deep-seated?
 
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cjoliver said:
It’s harder for a homosexual person to live the demands of chastity
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I find this extremely, extremely doubtful. From what I have seen of priests, many of the heterosexual ones have had significant difficulties in this regard also. The only added burden for the gay priest or religious is that they are going to be expected to live with other people of their same gender. But parish priests also have regular contact with many, many women through parish ministries and activities and through hiring lay people to be on the parish staff, so if a parish priest is prone to be tempted by women, he’ll be exposed to that temptation daily.
 
Apart from the semantics that most people will talk about, I just want to say that there’s nothing wrong for such person to be an active member of a parish as a layperson. These roles are indispensable, and you don’t need to be ordained for that role.
 
In that case there is an argument for excluding men with deep seated opposite sex attractions. I am sure that priests attracted to women can struggle as much with chastity as those attracted to men
 
cjoliver said:
It’s harder for a homosexual person to live the demands of chastity
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Is it?

I would argue that it has to do with the situation they put themselves in. The lgbt community can very very sexual (eg pride), but a Catholic man wouldn’t be in such situations in the first place.

We constantly see threads from straight men here about how they constantly watch porn/lust/masturbate. I highly doubt the difference between a faithful gay man and a faithful straight man is significant enough tbh.
 
Indeed, you could argue that in Parish ministry it would be harder for a man attracted to women to remain chaste than a man attracted to men because there would almost certainly be more straight women than gay men in the parish
 
Angannas said:
Indeed, you could argue that in Parish ministry it would be harder for a man attracted to women to remain chaste than a man attracted to men because there would almost certainly be more straight women than gay men in the parish
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I really don’t understand the “harder for” item.
If you are attracted to sexual behavior, you are attracted. And there will be opportunities to fuel that attraction.
 
Lea101 said:
highly doubt the difference between a faithful gay man and a faithful straight man is significant enough
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Some posts on this thread presume that “deep-seated” for homosexuals is equivalent to “deep-seated” for heterosexuals, in implications for psychology, relationship, and behavior.

Maybe, maybe not. The problem is there has been no real objective research into this area in 40 years. The American Psychiatric Association got tired of constant vandalism, harrassment, threats, until they change their position. A few researchers who suggested some degree of pathology got their offices trashed, classes dirsrupted. Today they would not get hired or funded in the first place.

Caveat emptor.
 
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commenter said:
Some posts on this thread presume that “deep-seated” for homosexuals is equivalent to “deep-seated” for heterosexuals, in implications for psychology, relationship, and behavior.
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Fascinating. I had a couple thoughts:

(1) Dr. Gerard van den Aardweg’s doctoral work approached homosexuality as a sexual neurosis.

(2) If he’s correct, your observation could lead to the implication that the very presence of non-transitory homosexual inclinations means that the neurosis is deep-seated.

thoughts?
 
The problem is, it’s part of our human nature to seek emotional connections (friendship) with other humans. For most priests, the main, if not only, source of friends is other priests. With worries about causing scandal, even a priest’s lay friends are likely to be male. For a gay man, friendship makes romantic relations more likely, just as it does for straight people. So for a gay priest, unless he has a very low sex drive, chastity must be at least a very frequent struggle. I suspect this is one factor in emotional problems which can lead to becoming a pedophile.
 
Not an argument for why this is the case, but I am quite sure there are new young priests (let alone older ones) who don’t reveal their SSA because they feel the calling to become a priest despite their sexual orientation. Thus, even if asked, they conceal their sexual identity and enter the priesthood with the best of intentions.
 
cjoliver said:
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commenter:
Some posts on this thread presume that “deep-seated” for homosexuals is equivalent to “deep-seated” for heterosexuals, in implications for psychology, relationship, and behavior.
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Fascinating. I had a couple thoughts:

(1) Dr. Gerard van den Aardweg’s doctoral work approached homosexuality as a sexual neurosis.

(2) If he’s correct, your observation could lead to the implication that the very presence of non-transitory homosexual inclinations means that the neurosis is deep-seated.

thoughts?
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I have enough knowlege to raise questions about this matter but not enough to feel confident in explanation.
I’m not sure what deep seated means clinically, and what the Church specifically in mind.

Is there something about homosexuality itself? Or something about a person not having “enough” male heterosexuality for priesthood - if there is such a thing?
 
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