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achristiantoo
Guest
understand…thank you
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guanophore
Guest
If it is a Trinitarian baptism, yes. If you were baptized as a Catholic infant, the adult baptism was not necessary.
No, because God mysteriously joins people to His One Body, the Church in various ways. Baptism is the normative means by which we become members of Him, and therefore, of His One Body. God is not bound by the Sacrament.
Catholic = Christian, yes.
Not everyone in an ecclesial comminity is a member of the Body. The body grows by “souls”: being added, not communities.
If that is true, then you have a deficient understanding of grace. God does not ask us to do things that He will not enable us to do. We can keep His commandments by walking in the Spirit. When we fail, we can be restored by His grace.
Matt 19:16-18
16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.** If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” **
John 14:15-16
15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
John 14:21-22
21 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."
John 15:10-11
10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
1 John 2:3-6
3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1 John 3:19-24
19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth, and reassure our hearts before him 20 whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and we receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 All who keep his commandments abide in him, and he in them.
I could go on, but these few verses make it clear that we are expected to keep His commandments.
No, but struggle does not equate to sin. I think you stopped reading Rom. 7 too soon? Go on through 8:1-2.
It is clear from your posts that you have very little understanding of the Catholic faith, and a lot of misunderstanding.
We believe you stand in the tradition of Apollos, and you probably follow as much as you know. If you continue to avoid the One Church founded by Christ once you find out your faith experience has been deficient, then it is true that you may not be saved. Outside of His Church, there is no salvation.
This is good. Now keep going, and get in unity with the One Church founded by Him.
No one is saved by the Bible.
John 5:39-41
9 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
You must come to Him that you may have life. The pages of the testimony may help you get to Him, but they did not get crucified to pay the price for your sins. You can find Him fully present in His One Body, the Church.
While you are on your last breath?
God is calling you to the Truth.
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achristiantoo
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**I will respectfully ignore your “little desires” comment. I have been nothing short of respectful in my posting to all of you
I am sure being called to catholic priesthood is asking a lot for a man to give up.
If the call should come about I will then have to answer God.
The question you pose does remind me of God’s great call to Abraham
What father today, with desires to raise his son, would sacrifice his son to God should God call ?
we see in the bible Abraham was obedient to God and just as he was about to slay Issac , Gen 22:10 an angel called out to him and Issac lived … Abrahams faith was rewarded**
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guanophore
Guest
Yes, but I am sure we believe it differently.
Catholics read the bible from the point of view of those who wrote it. You read it from your own point of view.
Jesus gave His church the authority to interpret the Scriptures. You interpret them on your own authority.
What you are saying is that your faith is dependent upon your own understanding of the Bible. Your perceptions differ sigficantly from those of the Apostles.
If you are satisfied with this small portion of the Truth, why are you here?
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guanophore
Guest
Indeed it is. But God is asking all of us to give everything. His Kingdom is the pearl of great price, and we are to sell all that we have and buy only the field in which the treasure is hidden.
When a person fulfills the calling they are given by God, eye has not seen, nor has ear heard, what He has in store for those who love Him.
Yes, we all do. Why not answer it now? Why wait?
This is a good example of how we are called to consecrate ourselves to God.
Matt 10:37-39
7 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.
How can you follow in Abrahams footsteps now?
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achristiantoo
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rinnie
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What are you talking about? And where is that I am asking you that putting your desires about the desire of God may be the problem here. Where is that being disrespectful.
All I said was sometimes God asks you to give up something you would choose to give it up for something God would choose for you. I do not see where I was being disrespectful here.
And what does God asking Abraham to give up his Son mean that it is something Abraham desires.]
How could that even compare to desires of the flesh that a Priest is willing to give up for the kingdom of God. I do not understand you at all.
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guanophore
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I think you hit a nerve.What are you talking about? And where is that I am asking you that putting your desires about the desire of God may be the problem here. Where is that being disrespectful.
All I said was sometimes God asks you to give up something you would choose to give it up for something God would choose for you. I do not see where I was being disrespectful here.
And what does God asking Abraham to give up his Son mean that it is something Abraham desires.]
How could that even compare to desires of the flesh that a Priest is willing to give up for the kingdom of God. I do not understand you at all.
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pablope
Guest
Did Jesus not say, if you want to follow me, pick up your cross?
Choosing the priesthood and all that it entails is the cross one chooses to pick to follow Christ.
From your responses (correct me if I am misreading), I deduce you want to serve in a ministerial capacity, yet you do not want to give up the pleasures of the flesh.
It is like, you have the cake and want to eat it too.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Whoa there! Let us not devalue marriage as something as “pleasures of the flesh”. There are very many good Catholic priests who are married in the Latin Rite. Marriage is a vocation and sex is an integral part of marriage. Didn’t St. Paul said that its better for one to marry than burn with desire? Why are we condemning those who choose to follow St. Paul’s advice? Sex is sacred! Its part of God’s plan! You should read Theology of the Body to get this understanding.
God knows His Church. He respects the rules of the Church because He gave the keys to Peter who passed it along his successors. So God will not call a married man to the Roman Catholic priesthood. But of course there are special circumstances that maybe God will guide one to go through and still end up in the Roman Catholic priesthood whilst being married. God can also lead one to Eastern Christianity where the married do get ordained.
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guanophore
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I agree. A person may feel a desire for both, and God may be calling a person to choose, or may be calling a person into such a state where both are fuflilled.
I think what is most important is that the person seeking to serve God must be willing to forsake everything to follow Him. He will give back all the things He intends for us to have.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
That is correct! I look at our priest who’s married (I’m now a practicing Ukrainian Catholic) and he doesn’t live a life similar to most married men I know. He’s dedicated to his calling as well, and his wife too. Its a misconception by many that a married man cannot fulfill priestly duties. It is also a misconception that a priest who is married is only married for the pleasures of the flesh. How many of the Apostles do we know are married? Yet the one made greatest among them is the one we conclusively know who is married.
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Esdra
Guest
Hi folks,
I think what the OP means is why isn’t it voluntarley for priests to marry or not before they take the vow, like it is the case with deacons or in the Eastern Catholic Churches?
You answered for monks and nuns. Yes, they choose to go to a monastery and live a life in celibacy.
I really have great respect for monks and nuns. But Jesus IMO, never meant priests to be cilabate only. They are free to stay celibate or marry - but **before **the vow, if you wish so.
Also Paul writes i.e. in 1 Cor 7:7: “Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.” (NASB)
Blessings,
Esdra
I think what the OP means is why isn’t it voluntarley for priests to marry or not before they take the vow, like it is the case with deacons or in the Eastern Catholic Churches?
You answered for monks and nuns. Yes, they choose to go to a monastery and live a life in celibacy.
I really have great respect for monks and nuns. But Jesus IMO, never meant priests to be cilabate only. They are free to stay celibate or marry - but **before **the vow, if you wish so.
Also Paul writes i.e. in 1 Cor 7:7: “Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.” (NASB)
Blessings,
Esdra
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Anna10
Guest
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU
Actually, in my country Lebanon, a married man can be priest BUT NOT THE CONTRARY
this is the fact even if i don’t like a priest to be married!!!
God bless you all
Anna
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rinnie
Guest
Esdra because that is why God called them to the Roman Rite my dear. He asked them to be completely obedient to him and him only. When a Man takes a wife his mind is divided. Remember read ST Paul.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Excellent.
I’d say it is very much a question of obedience to authority.
In the Western word and tradition, especially, there has been especially in ‘modern times’’ a huge push for ‘rugged individualism’, for a kind of ‘equality’ that is more a rejection of any kind of ‘authority’ as in ‘you’re not the boss of ME’ and "I’m just as good as you therefore you have no right to tell me to do anything’.
For such a people, submission and humility are not just to be desired, they are absolutely necessary to counteract the overwhelming ‘push’ to pride and the kind of ‘false humility’ that at once says, "nobody is ‘better’ than anybody else, period’ and means by it, “therefore I am ‘as good’ therefore I can do as I please because my judgment is best!”
And for such a people, they need priests to give up the ‘good’ of marriage (and it is good) in order to fully address with single-minded service this ‘stiff necked and stubborn’ people!
I’d say it is very much a question of obedience to authority.
In the Western word and tradition, especially, there has been especially in ‘modern times’’ a huge push for ‘rugged individualism’, for a kind of ‘equality’ that is more a rejection of any kind of ‘authority’ as in ‘you’re not the boss of ME’ and "I’m just as good as you therefore you have no right to tell me to do anything’.
For such a people, submission and humility are not just to be desired, they are absolutely necessary to counteract the overwhelming ‘push’ to pride and the kind of ‘false humility’ that at once says, "nobody is ‘better’ than anybody else, period’ and means by it, “therefore I am ‘as good’ therefore I can do as I please because my judgment is best!”
And for such a people, they need priests to give up the ‘good’ of marriage (and it is good) in order to fully address with single-minded service this ‘stiff necked and stubborn’ people!
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rinnie
Guest
Oh and you are correct. I did not mean it that way. But to put it another way and more simple. God will never give us more then we can handle. And God will never call us to something that we cannot handle. Rather a Priest or Christian.
But on the same Token. God can push us to the edge sometimes to show us what we can do.
Sometimes we think we are not as strong as God thinks we are, but as usual he knows what we are capable of more then ourself.
But by no means would it mean one Priest would not have the same Power then the other. There is only One Power of the Holy Spirit and they all got it. ONE Holy Spirit thats for sure.
But while one is called to one thing the other another and we another. But as we would all agree. ITS HARD!!
But I agree with your point if a Priest has the Sacrament of Holy Orders thats it. They are all given the same gift to do the work God called them to do.
But on the same Token. God can push us to the edge sometimes to show us what we can do.
Sometimes we think we are not as strong as God thinks we are, but as usual he knows what we are capable of more then ourself.
But by no means would it mean one Priest would not have the same Power then the other. There is only One Power of the Holy Spirit and they all got it. ONE Holy Spirit thats for sure.
But while one is called to one thing the other another and we another. But as we would all agree. ITS HARD!!
But I agree with your point if a Priest has the Sacrament of Holy Orders thats it. They are all given the same gift to do the work God called them to do.
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vsedriver
Guest
yet you are willing to throw away the rest of what God gave us, the Church? You are content to have only part of it and not hunger for the whole?
Why did Jesus found a Church in the first place? If all we needed was a guidebook surely there were enough among the Apostles who could read and write who could have simply written done a concise document. They could have compiled their thoughts on paper/parchment before leaving Jerusalem. Made exact copies for everyone and off they could go preaching the Good News.
But what Jesus gave us was a teaching structure to hold to the Truth. Yes Sacred Scripture is rich in what we need to know in order to get to heaven, but the Bible alone is not a stand alone instruction and was never been a stand alone instruction until around 1600 AD nor does it claim to be.
If I gave you a book on nuclear physics, one that contained all you need to know you would you be able to harness nuclear energy? But how much better would it be to have an authoritative teacher trained by the master of all physics to guide you in how you are to read that book?
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guanophore
Guest
And the Holy Scriptures attest that he was accompanied by his wife while doing ministry.
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