why can't priests marry?

[rinnie]

Also when you look at the Church as an institution you are correct it is not perfect.

But we look at the Church in a different way. The way Jesus taught us. He said he and the Church Are ONE. He said that the Church is the bride of Christ and he is the bridegroom. He is joined to the Church as we are joined in marriage.

We two people get married they are to become one. That is where soul mate comes from.

Jesus said when he leaves he is sending the Holy Spirit the Advocate to lead us into all truth. He said the Church is the Pilar of all truth.

What truth do you feel the Holy Spirit has taught that you deny?

You seem to feel because a Priest is Human and can sin he cannot be led by the Holy Spirit. If that is true how do you feel Peter and the Other Apostles led us to the truth? Or do you deny that truth also? Because would you not agree they were also very human?

As I stated you need to learn the Catholic faith before you judge it, and do some rethinking.

Do you believe that Christ sent his Spirit on the day of Pentecost and is leading us? If you agree then maybe you can let that new thinking set in. If you deny that, then there is really nothing anyone can do to convince you,

I will pray that the new thinking can set it, and that you continue to study the faith, and can soon accept Gods word and not reject it.

Please read up on the Advocate that will be with you UNTIL THE END OF AGE.

 

[rinnie]

I think calling an opposing but thoughtfully expressed opinion a “rant” is disrespectful, and to claim that I mean to say that millions including me want to rant, when I previously stated that I think the opposite and mean the opposite is unnecessarily rude. God reveals himself in many ways including through human thought and discourse.

He does not reveal himself or speak in these ways only to those with whom either you agree, or I agree. We all are His children and all can listen to him.

I am open to changing my mind and often can be pursuaded but not yet on this issue. When those putting forth an alternate view to that I hold are disrespectful and name calling and acting like they have some hotline to God that others don’t, it weakens their credibility in my mind, so a different approach might be better. Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Tell most serious people trying to express their opinion, take the approach of claiming that they are ranting, along with everone who agrees with them, and they will likely similarly dismiss you and whatever you have to say.

Please also read what God told us. To Listen to the Early Fathers of the Church, and do not be swayed by false spirits.

Many people can say this or that, but the word of God said we cannot go by human interpretation of his word, we must obey the Church.

Please get back into the word, sharpen up your study skills, and I believe if you do so, you will fimd that you that the Church is indeed the Pilar of all truth and the Pope and his Bishiops in umion do Indeed have the Power to speak in the name of Christ. He gave them that authority to exercise this.

 

[guanophore]

Formerlysure, I think that you need to re-think some of the things you are saying.

Let me begin with how you feel its unfair to ask a Priest to choose between God and a family. Think about this. You need to realize 2 things.

First of all when a Man becomes a Priest it is a higher calling from God. Next he chooses to answer this call by his own free will. ANd it is by help from the higher DIVINE that this calling is accomplished.

God never gives you more then you can handle. You are thinking on what YOU could handle and not handle, and I agree with you. So does God, or you would have been also called to this service.

We all have different gifts. BUT the big thing is we are ALL CALLED to use our gifts in differemt ways. Some to have children, be Parents, Mothers, Wives, Etc.

But when a Man is called from DIVINE to become a Priest and forego a family and marriage this is asked of him from God. Who are we to judge what is fair in the eyes of the Lord.

God creates us for many things. Look at this another way. What if you decided to not marry and not have children. What would you say if I said, that is not right. You should be married and have ten children. Do you see my point now? We all receive different Grace from God, and its our choice how WE use it.

When a Man gets this calling from God he is happy, and fulfilled in his life. Is that not what life is about, being fullfilled and doing Gods work. How could any higher happiness in this world be accomplished. God created that Man to do his work in that way, What do you feel another human being could accomplish in a persons soul that God could not surpass?

You are wise in this, Rinnie. God knows what we need better than we do.

Mark 10:27-31
27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.” 28 Peter began to say to him, “Lo, we have left everything and followed you.” 29 Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30 who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many that are first will be last, and the last first.”

God rewards those who are so called with many family members, makes them fishers of men, and begats through them spiritual children that cannot be counted.

 

[formerlysure]

You seem to feel because a Priest is Human and can sin he cannot be led by the Holy Spirit. If that is true how do you feel Peter and the Other Apostles led us to the truth? Or do you deny that truth also? Because would you not agree they were also very human?

I don’t know how you arrived at this bizarre characterization of what I said - not what I said, not what I meant. I said that priests are human, all human’s sin, and by extension, as the church is made up of men religious, the church is subject to imperfections. Are aspects of it perfect? Yes. However, interpretation of God’s intention is a human process and as humans are capable of error, interpretation of God’s intentions can also be in error. I do not view Bishops as perfect either - many Bishops were central to the sex abuse scandal, for one example of their capacity to be imperfect.

“As I stated you need to learn the Catholic faith before you judge it, and do some rethinking.”

It’s a bit much to claim I don’t know the faith. I grew up in the faith. I admit my knowledge remains in formation - I believe that should be the case for all of the faithful, all of our lives - but I do not lack a basic understanding of the faith. Because I understand but disagree with you, I know nothing? This is kind of pompous. Consider this possibility - I not only understand your viewpoint, but have heard it expressed many other times by others, sometimes more eloquently, sometimes with better back up. However, though I respect the viewpoint and consider the argument, I simply disagree.

"Do you believe that Christ sent his Spirit on the day of Pentecost and is leading us? If you agree then maybe you can let that new thinking set in. If you deny that, then there is really nothing anyone can do to convince you,

I will pray that the new thinking can set it, and that you continue to study the faith, and can soon accept Gods word and not reject it."
.

This point too, is odd. I said nothing about Pentacost - I didn’t even address what I think about it. I said nothing at all to lead anyone to think I don’t believe in God or Jesus or the resurection or Pentacost or any other aspect of Christianity and have not challenged Church doctrine. I’ve said nothing of the kind.

Further, if suggesting that married men could make for good priests is a “rejection” of God’s word, our Pope and bishops are also guilty of rejecting God’s word, are you aware of that? Many married Episcopal men are being accepted as Catholic priests as we speak – along with wives and families. The other Rites have permitted married men to be ordained for centuries. The Roman rite permitted marriage early on as well, including some popes. Perhaps you should join me in study…there’s much you apparently don’t know, either.

Again, not at all respectful nor appropriate about accusing someone of being faithless or being insulting or rude simply because we disagree about a discipline of our shared Church.

Perhaps my position shows a stronger faith - consider that. For example, I find it absurd to consider that a man could feel called by God to the priesthood and even think that rejecting the call is an option. Who refuses a call directly from God? I certainly could not do so. God calls men to the priesthood, and then men - mere mortal men - discern whether he can accept the call. The requirement of celibacy - this discipline that is not doctrine - is an extra. It is not uniformly required by Rome because permitting married men to be priests is not in any way disrespectful of the word of God.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t know how you arrived at this bizarre characterization of what I said - not what I said, not what I meant. I said that priests are human, all human’s sin, and by extension, as the church is made up of men religious, the church is subject to imperfections. Are aspects of it perfect? Yes. However, interpretation of God’s intention is a human process and as humans are capable of error, interpretation of God’s intentions can also be in error. I do not view Bishops as perfect either - many Bishops were central to the sex abuse scandal, for one example of their capacity to be imperfect.

The Church, like Christ, is incarnational. She has a divine element, and a human element. The human element is subject to error, but the divine element is not. Because the Church has Christ as her Head, and the HS as her Soul, she cannot err. The fallible members of her can, and do. So, though the persons belonging to the Church are subject to imperfections, the Church herself cannot be.

The other Rites have permitted married men to be ordained for centuries.  The Roman rite permitted marriage early on as well, including some popes.  Perhaps you should join me in study...there's much you apparently don't know, either.

The Church decided that the need for the spiritual fruitfulness and focus of celibacy was so needed, that she chooses from among those so called to serve as priests.

You are right, since it is a discipline (not a doctrine) it can be relaxed, or changed. But I don’t expect to see a change in the Latin Rite.

Perhaps my position shows a stronger faith - consider that. For example, I find it absurd to consider that a man could feel called by God to the priesthood and even think that rejecting the call is an option.

It happens every day. Not just the call to priesthood, but to religious life, and to living a life of radical Christian commmitment. If refusing God’s call did not happen every day, our country would be a very different place.

Are you saying you have always followed God’s call without question?

     Who refuses a call directly from God?  I certainly could not do so.

Well, supposing you were not sure if you were really being called? Your monniker seems to indicate there is sure room for doubt…

When someone departs from the Apostolic faith, it is always best to assume it is done in ignorance. Many of us here on CAF left because we did not understand our faith. When we learned about it, we came back. Ignorance is much easier to correct than open rebellion.

 

[someguy14]

These verses may help.

1 Corinthians 7

32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

35 And this I speak for your own profit ; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

 

[formerlysure]

Just for clarity…I am speaking of a man who is sure of his calling to the priesthood and also confident he loves a woman. I know we are all called by God, but we don’t always hear him, listen or understand him. So when I say I can’t imagine refusing a call from God, of course, that is predicated on understanding and hearing the call and knowing it comes from God. I do agree with your point that many calls are missed… Yes, of course.

And yes…my moniker is telling…a member of the perfect church raped my friends and our pastor and bishop protected the priest and used theological arguments to protect a whole network of abusive priests.

I do not blame celibacy for the scandals but the scale of the problem raises serious questions about many theological arguments for me.

 

[guanophore]

Just for clarity…I am speaking of a man who is sure of his calling to the priesthood and also confident he loves a woman. I know we are all called by God, but we don’t always hear him, listen or understand him. So when I say I can’t imagine refusing a call from God, of course, that is predicated on understanding and hearing the call and knowing it comes from God. I do agree with your point that many calls are missed… Yes, of course.

OIC.

Having love for a woman does not necessarily mean that the man should marry this woman. If such feelings justified the actions related to them, then it would be ok for a married man to have sex with someone other than his wife, if indeed he “loves the woman” to whom he is not married. Sometimes God allows a person to feel such things for higher purposes.

This is also a good example of why the Church has such a long and arduous discernment process for the priesthood.

And yes…my moniker is telling…a member of the perfect church raped my friends and our pastor and bishop protected the priest and used theological arguments to protect a whole network of abusive priests.

This is a gross wound, and unfortunately these offenses have rent the Church. It seems to me that the devil knows right where to attack - striking the shepherds to scatter the flock. I know some people who have left over these kinds of situations.

The perfection is found in unity with the One Faith. People that turn their back on the faith, and commit such grievious sins, remove themselves from the perfect unity of the Church.

I do not blame celibacy for the scandals but the scale of the problem raises serious questions about many theological arguments for me.

As it should for all faithful members of the Body.

 

[Evan]

Reading the history of the Church. The celibacy was first imposed in the western Church about 1000 years ago.

It was imposed to put an end to a church scandal. The married priests were taking concubines and having 2nd families with them. The wife was for political reasons (getting promotions to bishop, etc).

So the Church called only for priests that could forgo the need for an earthly family altogether. If they could live a celibate life, they would not be tempted to have 1/2/3/ … wives and concubines.

Apparently, when you use human beings for your priests, you end up with a bunch of sinners. Who would have expected that. Jesus should have realized it when he could not find 12 good men.

Peter – denied him
Judas – betrayed him
9 others – ran away
John was there, but there is no record of him testifying at the trial.

Priests are men. Some will sin. Some grievously. They forgive our sins; we have to forgive theirs. Of course, even in forgiveness we must keep them from further temptation to the same sin, for now we know what weakness a particular priest has.

 

[Church_Man]

Perhaps, but then again, perhaps not. There’s really no way for us to know this to be the case.

No where in Scripture does it state that the Apostles became celibate. If anything, the Apostles went with their wives to mission work.

 

[ufamtobie]

No where in Scripture does it state that the Apostles became celibate. If anything, the Apostles went with their wives to mission work.

Church Man,

You are wrong! It does say in Scripture the Apostles left everything including wives, Peter said so himself! I will quote Peter. "Then Peter said: Behold, WE have left all things, and have followed thee"

Church Man, if you don’t believe me read it for yourself? Read (LUKE 18: 28-30)

(Luke 18 23-30) 28 Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. 29 Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake, 30 Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Church Man, Jesus Christ himself, Loves those and blesses those more who have left their House, Parents, Brethren, WIFE, Children, for the sake of the Kingdom. they will be given much more on earth and in heaven. Amen

Church Man, because the Catholic Priest left all things including being married they will receive more in this life and in Heaven. Don’t try to take this away from them!

Church Man, the Catholic Priest have left all to follow the Lord Jesus Christ just as the Apostles did. A protestant minister may choose a wife but by doing so he is not giving up everything for the SAKE OF THE KINGDOM.

Ufamtobie