Why can't protestants see that Sola Scriptora is broken?

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concretecamper said:
Are you saying all denominations of protestants got it wrong when it comes to scripture interpretation?
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For TEC Scripture is our foundation, understood through tradition and reason, containing all things necessary for salvation. Our worship is filled with Scripture from beginning to end.

Now that is not saying that simply the Bible alone will save us but it tells us how to go about it. Baptism, Eucharist…etc 👍
 
JonNC said:
BTW, here is why we -]recite/-] confess the ancient creeds.

We confess them because we pledge ourselves to them, for the reasons shown.

Jon
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But you would not consider them authority in of themselves. A Christian doesn’t have to confess the nicene creed right?
 
JonNC said:
In return would you say that EO, OO , PNCC, etc. got it wrong in their interpretation of scripture and Tradition?

Jon
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I would say that the RCC is the only Church that has it right with regards to Scripture and Sacred Tradition. I would not be RC if I did not believe this.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Can you name any more?

Lets see, orthodox, Catholic, Oriental and Assyrian/

Vs

Lutheran, Anglican/Episcopalian, Baptist, presbyterian, Methodist, Evangelical, Various non demoninational churches which cannot possibly be listed here and which would account for a unique theology in of itself. Theres undoubtably alot more with regards to protestatntism. What is teh cause?
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Maybe the cause was the condition of the western Church, at least at the beginning of the Reformation era. Out of that time came, independently from each other, Lutheranism, Anabaptists, Reformed/Calvinism. Later groups emerge, rarely from Lutheranism, but primarily from the Reformed, other communions. Anglicanism also began independently from the others. The only consistent piece in each is the Catholic Church.

Now, I’m not saying that it was all the fault of Rome. There is fault enough to go around, and that’s my point. It problem isn’t the model of hermeneutics. You don’t disagree with Catholics on the nature of the primacy of the Bishop of Rome because you both use scripture and sacred Tradition. You differ despite the fact that you both use Tradition and scripture. It is the same with non-Catholic communions that hold to sola scriptura.
Then there are those who hold to solo scriptura, and that’s another issue.

Jon
 
My favourite topic recently was on the glutton free Eucharist. Also, leavened vs unleavened bread, also the battle over infant’s and Baptism of desire.

All within the group of different Church’s arguing who has the true succession. I’ll take claims that Evangelicals are the furthest from the truth as soon as the Apostolic Church’s unite.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
But you would not consider them authority in of themselves. A Christian doesn’t have to confess the nicene creed right?
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The Formula of Concord says: which were regarded as the unanimous, universal Christian faith and confession of the orthodox and true Church, namely, the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed, we pledge ourselves to them
So, yes, they are doctrine, authoritative. If you are a Lutheran, you pledge yourself to them. You confess them.

Jon
 
concretecamper said:
I would say that the RCC is the only Church that has it right with regards to Scripture and Sacred Tradition. I would not be RC if I did not believe this.
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Exactly. We’ve each prayerfully, honestly, and sincerely believe that our communion teaches the truth. And I say, may you be blessed in word and sacrament in your communion.

Jon
 
dronald said:
My favourite topic recently was on the glutton free Eucharist. Also, leavened vs unleavened bread, also the battle over infant’s and Baptism of desire.

All within the group of different Church’s arguing who has the true succession. I’ll take claims that Evangelicals are the furthest from the truth as soon as the Apostolic Church’s unite.
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I’ve always said I will go further. If the EO and CC were to reconcile in full communion, I would see no reason to remain outside of it.

Jon
 
House_Harkonnen said:
In my town there are the Catholic Church, the Catholic SSPX denomination, the Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East. They all teach different things but appeal to sacred tradition, all claiming that their iteration of sacred tradition is the true one.

Sacred tradition must clearly be unbiblical.

Why can’t Catholics clearly see that sacred tradition is broken?

See what I did there?
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First, Catholics are not sola traditionalists…we have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church.

Second, Catholics cannot be held responsible for those who have split off from the true faith handed down from the saints. This includes the Orthodox and Protestant groups.

Third, Sacred Scripture commends Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium while nothing in Sacred Scripture commends sola scriptura. Not. One. Verse.
 
JonNC said:
The Formula of Concord says: which were regarded as the unanimous, universal Christian faith and confession of the orthodox and true Church, namely, the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed, we pledge ourselves to them
So, yes, they are doctrine, authoritative. If you are a Lutheran, you pledge yourself to them. You confess them.

Jon
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But you don’t have to be lutheran now do you?
 
House_Harkonnen said:
In my town there are the Catholic Church, the Catholic SSPX denomination, the Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East. They all teach different things but appeal to sacred tradition, all claiming that their iteration of sacred tradition is the true one.

Sacred tradition must clearly be unbiblical.

Why can’t Catholics clearly see that sacred tradition is broken?

See what I did there?
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LCMS, ELCA, WELS, etc all under the umbrella of Lutheran.
 
JonNC said:
I’ve always said I will go further. If the EO and CC were to reconcile in full communion, I would see no reason to remain outside of it.

Jon
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So, in effect, you agree that reconciliation with Rome is the right thing for all concerned.

You just want to wait for someone else to go first…
 
Randy_Carson said:
First, Catholics sola traditionalists…we have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church.

Second, Catholics cannot be held responsible for those who have split off from the true faith handed down from the saints. This includes the Orthodox and Protestant groups.

Third, Sacred Scripture commends Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium while nothing in Sacred Scripture commends sola scriptura. Not. One. Verse.
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Of course you would say this, Randy. You’re a Catholic. Lutherans also cannot be responsible for other protestant communions, even less so because they were never a part of the Lutheran communion.

Of course one can infer sola scriptura from scripture. There’s lots of verses. But since the believer’s conscience is not bound to it (doctrine), it doesn’t have to be explicit in scripture. It is a practice of holding teachers, etc. accountable to scripture.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I am saying that, as a Lutheran, I believe the Confessions are a true, catholic reflection of the truth of scripture and the faith.
If I don’t say that, I’m not a Lutheran.

Jon
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Can you demonstrate that the Confessions in their entirety were taught by the Church at anytime prior to the 16th century?

:nope:

So, they are just one interpretation of the faith, and a novel one at that.
 
House_Harkonnen said:
Then someone isn’t thinking, studying or being guided by the Holy Spirit, because there are a whole bunch in my town claiming that THEY are the true one.
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I have known a LCMS Lutheran or two that claim they are the true Church.
 
Randy_Carson said:
So, in effect, you agree that reconciliation with Rome is the right thing for all concerned.

You just want to wait for someone else to go first…
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Sure. And Rome needs to reconcile with the EO… and everyone else. Reconciliation isn’t a one way street. Reconciliation isn’t “submit”.
But certainly, unity isn’t possible without the Roman see.

Jon
 
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