Why can't protestants see that Sola Scriptora is broken?

[concretecamper]

Well often times, Catholicism, in terms of the people, gets bogged down with little “t” traditions, sort of similar to what the Jews faced in the time of Christ when their leaders placed all kinds of undue burdens on them…

Such as?

 

[concretecamper]

Theologically, sure, Muslims and Christians will disagree.

But I am not discussing theology right now, I am speaking on spirituality.

I never said there weren’t spiritual protestants, I just don’t believe they have a method for the average person to acquire such spiritual heights. And most protestant pastors are ignorant of spiritual things. They know the bible, very knowledgeable about the bible, but they don’t know spiritual things.

Being spiritual without the correct theology is pointless. So discussing spirituality as something to attain is…well…pointless

 

[TheSufi]

What a silly and arrogant assessment.

Can you read the hearts of Protestants that you have assessed them in such a way?

I am not judging protestants in that way. One cannot determine how close an individual is to God, nor can determine who will end up in hell or not. (In this Jesus said,** Judge not that you be Judge, the judgment you give you will be judged.**

I am assessing them in terms of what they can teach me, in this Jesus said, you judge a tree by its fruits.

 

[Marie5890]

Being spiritual without the correct theology is pointless. So discussing spirituality as something to attain is…well…pointless

Disagree completely. Christ Himself engaged the woman at the well even though her “theology” was off…

In real life and in real situations, one has to engage people from where they are at, rather than waiting for them to be where you think they need to be.

It’s why we should cultivate the Spirit as our guide. Left to out own thoughts and egos, we miss opportunities to make the Lord present to others.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Being spiritual without the correct theology is pointless. So discussing spirituality as something to attain is…well…pointless

I beg to differ, my friend.

It is the Spirit who will guide us into all truth. It is by the Spirit that we can be led into Christ.

 

[TheSufi]

Being spiritual without the correct theology is pointless. So discussing spirituality as something to attain is…well…pointless

Many Muslims argue the same thing.

But it is the only thing that I admire about Orthodox Christianity and Catholic Church, their spirituality.

Theologically, I don’t believe Jesus is God.

 

[Marie5890]

I beg to differ, my friend.

It is the Spirit who will guide us into all truth. It is by the Spirit that we can be led into Christ.

If we get too, umm, “intellectual” in our approach, the Spirit gets marginalized in making Christ manifest.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Many Muslims argue the same thing.

But it is the only thing that I admire about Orthodox Christianity and Catholic Church, their spirituality.

Theologically, I don’t believe Jesus is God.

Theology can drive us mad… It is hard to understand spiritual things while being captured in the flesh. Thus, we try to explain things that are not of this world.

I understand the spiritually thirst you talk about. Jesus is the only one to quench this type of thirst.

However, just as we can’t dismiss spiritual things - we also can’t dismiss earthly things.

Jesus also said to Nicodemus: "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things (Paraphrased from John 3).

 

[Marie5890]

Many Muslims argue the same thing.

But it is the only thing that I admire about Orthodox Christianity and Catholic Church, their spirituality.

Theologically, I don’t believe Jesus is God.

And I appreciate your honest statement that reflects who you are/where you are at. .

 

[Isaiah45_9]

What a glib assessment.

How would you even begin to make such an assessment? Especially when you (self admittedly) aren’t even sure of Protestant spirituality at all?

Not that I completely agree with Sufi, but that was my experience as well - while Church hoping in Protestant circles for about 10 years. My conclusion is the same: Pentecostals were the ones that wanted to approach spirituality the most.

 

[concretecamper]

I beg to differ, my friend.

It is the Spirit who will guide us into all truth. It is by the Spirit that we can be led into Christ.

Being spiritual…such as yoga or reiki or Oprah’s shack is not leading one to Christ. The correct theology is needed.

 

[TheSufi]

Jesus also said to Nicodemus: "I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things (Paraphrased from John 3).

One of my favorite quotes of Jesus.

 

[Karen107]

Being spiritual…such as yoga or reiki or Oprah’s shack is not leading one to Christ. The correct theology is needed.

I agree…

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything needed for life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

Jesus called the apostles who spread his truth through the church and the purpose of theology is to make sure that the truths of God that we believe in are true. St. Paul and St Luke were great theologians as was many doctors and great Saints of the Church. They looked at these truths and affirmed them and these are the truths that are the foundations of the Churches beliefs.

 

[Marie5890]

Being spiritual…such as yoga or reiki or Oprah’s shack is not leading one to Christ. The correct theology is needed.

You seem to have a more intellectual approach to spirituality, and Tradition certainly bears that out as a legitimate approach.

There are those of us who have a more of a mystical approach to spirituality (ie The Holy Spirit, One member of the Trinity, having the ability to be part of the equation of one’s spirituality), also has roots in Tradition. We have and exercise great faith in that. It’s not just an intellectual exercise.

Openness and humility is what invites the Spirit to accompany us and how we interact with others.

The Spirit can and does make a difference, even with those who are at a different spot

 

[Kliska]

I think most would say it is a both/and proposition, not an either/or. Both theology and spirituality.

 

[concretecamper]

You seem to have a more intellectual approach to spirituality, and Tradition certainly bears that out as a legitimate approach.

There are those of us who have a more of a mystical approach to spirituality (ie The Holy Spirit, One member of the Trinity, having the ability to be part of the equation of one’s spirituality), also has roots in Tradition. We have and exercise great faith in that. It’s not just an intellectual exercise.

Openness and humility is what invites the Spirit to accompany us and how we interact with others.

The Spirit can and does make a difference, even with those who are at a different spot

Unless you are grounded in the proper theology, you do not know what spirit will be guiding you. Yes, there are demons and they can make one feel good and holy.

 

[JonNC]

I attended several protestant services as a child. One grandmother was Baptist and the other grandmother was Methodist. I wouldn’t say they were spiritual at all. Religious yes, spiritual nope.

The most Spiritual protestant movement that I’ve been too, was the Pentecostals. I would say only a few of them were spiritual, but they were naturally spiritually, born that way. They don’t have a method for transforming, an average joe smoo into a spiritual giant, someone who can witness God directly.

The Orthodox Church has an active method for acquiring the Holy Spirit. Yes, one can have the Holy Spirit descend upon one, but if one cannot read or embrace the spirit, There is very little benefit it in having the holy spirit. What good does it do one to sit in a room with books written in Greek if one cannot read Greek. There needs to be some training of one’s spirit to be able to read spiritual things. (Jesus said, I have many things to say unto but you cannot bear them yet). Do you think he was speaking intellectually?

What do you think it means to be born in spirit?

God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit. Or when Paul speaks of praying ceaselessly. Or Paul going up to the third heavens, not knowing whether one was in the body or out of the body.

Yes, Protestants know nothing of these spiritual things. And can’t even expound upon them at any level, except what is written (ie quote the words)

Orthodox and Catholic Spiritual masters (abbots) experience these things directly and can teach you how to attain these spiritual heights.

Since there is no such thing as “the Protestant Church”, which church did you attend?

Jon

 

[TheSufi]

Since there is no such thing as “the Protestant Church”, which church did you attend?

Jon

the one up from my grandma’s house.

 

[Marie5890]

Unless you are grounded in the proper theology, you do not know what spirit will be guiding you. Yes, there are demons and they can make one feel good and holy.

You speak of “feelings” as oppose to “being”, however.

God can and does write straight with crooked lines.

He can take anyone from where they are at and guide them if they are open.

What gets in our ways is arrogance and ego. Proper theology or not.

 

[ltwin]

My biggest problem with Protestant Christianity is lack of spirituality.

“Lack of spirituality.” If spirituality is defined as “the quality or fact of being spiritual,” I’m not seeing how you can make a blanket determination that Protestants “seem to be lacking in that department.”

I attended several protestant services as a child. One grandmother was Baptist and the other grandmother was Methodist. I wouldn’t say they were spiritual at all. Religious yes, spiritual nope.

So, you don’t think figures like John Wesley or Billy Graham have some idea about spirituality? They don’t seem to be simply “religious” types to me.

Or what about Christian missionary Heidi Baker or Mother Basilea Schlink, who founded the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary and whose writings betray a deep spirituality and intimacy with Jesus. I could go on and on but I don’t think I have to.

IThe most Spiritual protestant movement that I’ve been too, was the Pentecostals. I would say only a few of them were spiritual, but they were naturally spiritually, born that way. They don’t have a method for transforming, an average joe smoo into a spiritual giant, someone who can witness God directly.

What’s that suppose to mean? Sorry to burst your bubble, but Pentecostals aren’t born speaking in tongues or conducting intercessory prayer.

No one is “naturally spiritually, born that way.” Some things come only by prayer and fasting and seeking after the heart of God and embracing the suffering and hardship that all who come to the Cross are called to. The anointing is a costly thing.

If not everyone becomes a “spiritual giant,” it is because they are not willing to pay the price. They are not willing to take up their Cross and follow Jesus.

IThe Orthodox Church has an active method for acquiring the Holy Spirit.

Funny, I thought Pentecostals were the only ones who knew that secret . . .

Yes, Protestants know nothing of these spiritual things. And can’t even expound upon them at any level, except what is written (ie quote the words)

If you say so.

Funny though, that’s what many Protestants (not me) would say about Catholics and Orthodox Christians (and even the more liturgical Protestant churches)—that they have a form of godliness, but deny its power.