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concretecamper
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"Being"is BS.
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concretecamper
Guest
From a faith perapective, feelings get us into trouble which is why I said demons make one feel holy. And people fall for it. Not sure what you mean by being…
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Karen107
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I think that’s an important point, which takes us back to why sola scriptura doesn’t work. When a person is guided by the spirit only, they may not be guided properly. Jesus Christ didn’t leave a bible to guide us, He started a church. And I think these things should be said if people truly want to be led to the truth. That said, we have to show love for one another in all that we do.
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Marie5890
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Pseudo-faith can be influenced by feelings for sure.
But that is not of what I speak.
Faith born of Love for the Lover is not about feelings. It’s about Being.
And I do realize that may not make an intellectual sense.
I see it when I read the scriptures. I see it in the prophets, I see it in Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, the Apostles.
It’s a witness born of the Spirit. And the Spirit finds us where we are at, and guides us.
Humility and openness are tantamount however.
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concretecamper
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Love is a choice. Love is not about being. We disagree… you can have the last word. May God bless you.Pseudo-faith can be influenced by feelings for sure.
But that is not of what I speak.
Faith born of Love for the Lover is not about feelings. It’s about Being.
And I do realize that may not make an intellectual sense.
I see it when I read the scriptures. I see it in the prophets, I see it in Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, the Apostles.
It’s a witness born of the Spirit. And the Spirit finds us where we are at, and guides us.
Humility and openness are tantamount however.
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Marie5890
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God IS Love, so Love is indeed about Being…
The Mystical and the Intellectual both are part of Catholic Tradition. Neither is wrong and both are legit paths to God
God bless you too…
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Karen107
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Now on that note, we learn from Peter and Jesus that believing that Jesus is the Son of the Living God comes from the Father which is why Peter was chosen to lead the church.
Matthew 16: 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Jesus never denies it, rather, he calls Himself 'I am"…And was even crucified because he did not deny it to his last dying breath.
John 8: 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
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Karen107
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Marie I have to respond to that by looking at your quote. There are two sides to this From his perspective he is saying Love without truth would be blind, and from yours truth without love would be like a clanging cymbal. Just as Peter was challenged by Jesus on the path to truth, he was also led by the Spirit of God.
“Love without truth would be blind; truth without love would be like ‘a clanging cymbal’ (I Cor 13: 1).”
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Isaiah45_9
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I see, so offering sarcasm and mockery is theologically correct…
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concretecamper
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I do not see any sacasim in my response. Unless you took offense because you subscribe to one of the things I mentioned?
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Marie5890
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In all fairness, I dont see s/he as being sarcastic or mocking to be honest. I just see them as only looking at it thru an intellectual prism. The Church however, in all of Her Traditions, takes a much more diverse view.
Intellectualism is one path. But not the only. The Great masters and mystics have shown us that God IS more than that.
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Isaiah45_9
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I don’t and nowhere did I suggest that this “spirituality” was acceptable.
However, the subject of the posts we are exchanging with Sufi deal with Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant spirituality. Further, he specifically mentioned Presbyterian, Methodist and Pentecostal. All of which talk about Jesus. Therefore your post brings straw men that I did not bring. And the offense is that you insult my intelligence by bringing an absurdity that we are not talking about.
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Isaiah45_9
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See aboveIn all fairness, I dont see s/he as being sarcastic or mocking to be honest. I just see them as only looking at it thru an intellectual prism. The Church however, in all of Her Traditions, takes a much more diverse view.
Intellectualism is one path. But not the only. The Great masters and mystics have shown us that God IS more than that.
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crochet_lady
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John 14:6 “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man cometh to the Father, but through Me.” That is Jesus Christ talking.
God’s Word is Truth. It’s mankind’s interpretation that can be faulty. God’s Word tells us Not to add to His Word or subtract From It. And there have been and will be false teachers.
Whatever church building / group you go to hear - participate with – do they teach God’s Word as It’s being the authority – or do they include other sources as being on equal standing with Scripture.
In the beginning God – Not “Pastor Jones” any person in “Pastor Jones” congregation should feel free to question – privately – Anything that he says. Does is agree with God’s Word?
There Are groups that use the KJV Plus their own group’s religious books as adding To the completeness OF God’s Word.
I was just reading some of the other posts – the subject of women in the church in leadership positions. and sexuality issues were mentioned.
1 Timothy 3 gives specific guidelines for oversears of a group – being the husband of one wife is included. That means a Man leading Not a woman from the pulpit.
God’s Word is also specific about sexuality issues. Society tends to not appreciate Biblical morality. God instituted marriage to be between one man and one woman. And there is to be No sexual activity between Any two people outside of that union. The book of Leviticus is pretty specific about it.
Women Need to have women leading them in their own groups – Besides the Main times of worshiping together as families in a church service. Just as men would benefit from men’s group study/ discussion. There are Men’s issues and Women’s issues in life. Men discuss differently than women and visa versa.
So - it would appear that there’s nothing wrong with Scripture – only how We are willing to follow it.
God’s Word is Truth. It’s mankind’s interpretation that can be faulty. God’s Word tells us Not to add to His Word or subtract From It. And there have been and will be false teachers.
Whatever church building / group you go to hear - participate with – do they teach God’s Word as It’s being the authority – or do they include other sources as being on equal standing with Scripture.
In the beginning God – Not “Pastor Jones” any person in “Pastor Jones” congregation should feel free to question – privately – Anything that he says. Does is agree with God’s Word?
There Are groups that use the KJV Plus their own group’s religious books as adding To the completeness OF God’s Word.
I was just reading some of the other posts – the subject of women in the church in leadership positions. and sexuality issues were mentioned.
1 Timothy 3 gives specific guidelines for oversears of a group – being the husband of one wife is included. That means a Man leading Not a woman from the pulpit.
God’s Word is also specific about sexuality issues. Society tends to not appreciate Biblical morality. God instituted marriage to be between one man and one woman. And there is to be No sexual activity between Any two people outside of that union. The book of Leviticus is pretty specific about it.
Women Need to have women leading them in their own groups – Besides the Main times of worshiping together as families in a church service. Just as men would benefit from men’s group study/ discussion. There are Men’s issues and Women’s issues in life. Men discuss differently than women and visa versa.
So - it would appear that there’s nothing wrong with Scripture – only how We are willing to follow it.
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Marie5890
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And nothing I have said contradicts that…
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Karen107
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Well actually I had gotten the sense that you were opposing the view that theology and intellectualism had any purpose. We see many that are falling away from the truth. It happens every day. Those who are spiritual but not religious seems to be the theme. Even the mystics were grounded in the teachings of the Church, and as the camping said, that love does not always lead one to the truth. Just because it feels good, doesn’t mean it’s truth.And nothing I have said contradicts that…
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Marie5890
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I thought I was pretty clear that both paths are withinTradition and both are accepted paths. The various charisms and their founders are a great example of this
(I highly recommend JREducation’s posts to those who are unfamiliar with him. He does a fantastic job of breaking down the various spiritual traditions within the Church and how She embraces them all. Different paths that lead to the same place)
I dont dis intellectualism and I dont think my posts suggest that. I just point out that the Church in Her Tradition isnt limited to that alone.
I am sorry if I didnt make that clear.
(I highly recommend JREducation’s posts to those who are unfamiliar with him. He does a fantastic job of breaking down the various spiritual traditions within the Church and how She embraces them all. Different paths that lead to the same place)
I dont dis intellectualism and I dont think my posts suggest that. I just point out that the Church in Her Tradition isnt limited to that alone.
I am sorry if I didnt make that clear.
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Karen107
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No it isn’t very clear Marie. We’re talking about sola scriptura beliefs and you are talking about spiritual traditions within the church. There are spiritual traditions outside of the church, many of which bring people away from the truth. We have to be careful about embracing any spirit and any teaching which leads people away from the truth.
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Marie5890
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I saw the title of the thread as “Protestants”…
And I started off with Christ and His interacting with the Samaritan woman at the well. And that God can take us where we are at and lead us. That the Spirit can guide us in that…
And I still stand by that…
God can and does write straight with crooked lines. A Samaritan at the well of human life can be lead to Him…
I still disagree with Concrete’s statement that it’s “pointless” to start off if one has wrong theology.
I dont see it as pointless at all. Never have. I see it as a starting point (the well) and with the Spirit’s guidance, one can be lead to Christ.
If we had to “wait” until people had right theology, then why both even trying to evangelize? That makes no sense to me and marginalizes the Spirit in the conversion process…
I have great faith the Holy Spirit, and I strive to be a conduit to the Spirit working thru me to bring people to the truth…
I think it’s sad to not even bother with people simply because they are under a false theology. I dont think that is what Christ’s asks of us at all. Never have. I don’t think we should view others place of spirituality as “pointless” (again Concrete’s word, not mine)
And I am glad He never gave up on me…
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Adamski
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Why are you not Roman Catholic you sound and think like one
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