Why can't the souls in purgatory pray for themselves?

[Zackeera]

*]Prayer for the dead and sacrificial offerings, both to free the dead from sin.

Then why did Jesus have to die?

 

[Zackeera]

I am sorry, but that is a protestant viewpoint and does not reflect what the Church teaches.

Why do you suppose this isn’t a part of what the Church teaches? It’s an important passage of scripture.

 

[R_C]

Then why did Jesus have to die?

That isn’t quite your question, at least not directly.

Your point appears to be: if we can free the dead from sin through prayer and offerings, what is the point for the sacrifice of Christ?

And this question misses a crucial point, which you may be able to see yourself as I respond with another question: what was the point of all prayers and sacrifices before the glorious incarnation of Christ?

I recommend you check out this website for a greater understanding:

In ancient times, a major component of Jewish ritual was the offering of qorbanot …] usually translated as “sacrifices” or “offerings”; …] Parts of the rituals involved in the offering of qorbanot were performed exclusively by the kohanim (priests). These rituals were only performed in the Temple in Jerusalem. …]

There are three basic concepts underlying qorbanot: giving, substitution and coming closer. …] the aspect of giving. A qorban requires the renunciation of something that belongs to the person making the offering. …] the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense “punished” in place of the offerer. …] the idea coming closer. The essence of sacrifice is to bring a person closer to G-d.

Contrary to popular belief, the purpose of qorbanot is not simply to obtain forgiveness from sin. …] The purposes of qorbanot are much the same as the purposes of prayer: we bring qorbanot to praise G-d, to become closer to Him, to express thanks to G-d, love or gratitude. …] And yes, many qorbanot, like many prayers, are brought for purposes of atonement. …] For the most part, qorbanot only expiate unintentional sins …] for the most part, qorbanot cannot atone for a malicious, deliberate sin.

Now time is fit to read the teachings of our Sacred Tradition, to learn more about the Sacrament of the Eucharist (Greek word for “thankgsgiving”), you will see the connection between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, and understand the words of the Savior who:

took bread and, giving thanks, broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying: “Take this, all of you, and eat of it: for this is my Body which will be given up for you.” In a similar way, when supper was ended, he took the chalice and, once more giving thanks, he gave it to his disciples, saying: “Take this, all of you, and drink from it: for this is the chalice of my Blood, the Blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins. Do this in memory of me.”

The point of Christ’s death, the reason for which St. John the Baptist called him agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, “the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world”, is that Christ, the one living Word of God, became the one living and eternal offering for atonement of sins as well as the one and eternal High Priest to offer that offering:

The Father loves me because I sacrifice my life so I may take it back again. No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.

Every high priest is selected from among the people and is appointed to represent the people in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was.

In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.”

And he says in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”

…]he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

There lies the teaching on the sacrifice of Christ. God in fact had spoken:

my name is honored by people of other nations from morning till night. All around the world they offer sweet incense and pure offerings in honor of my name. …] Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving, and perform your vows to the Most High, and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.

Much more could be said, however you yourself will reach greater understanding by visiting, to begin with, this website, and from there on, according to your free choice, the writings of ALL the Church Fathers and theologians and bishops and teachers throughout the world throughout the centuries. Then you will understand the sacrifice of the Lamb and why the “saints”, that is, the holy ones who live with Him (which is not limited to those in heaven, as our faith in the communion of saints teaches) can intercede for us through Christ: for in the end there is one bread, one body, one church.

 

[devoutchristian]

Then why did Jesus have to die?

1. So that they go get to purgatory
2. So that our prayers for them would be effacious.

 

[moon1234]

Why do you suppose this isn’t a part of what the Church teaches? It’s an important passage of scripture.

It is part of what the Church teaches. What you presume is that NO personal payment for the debt of sin is necessary. Nowhere is that said. Jesus’ attonement is the removal of us being barred from heaven. It is a long jump to them decide that we owe no personal debt for our individual sins.

Consider that before Christ’s passion it was not possible for ANYONE to go to heaven. The gates of heaven were closed with the sin of Adam and Eve. All of the elect who died and were worthy of heaven could not go there until AFTER Christ’s passion. It is why we hear in the creed that “Christ decended into hell and on the third day he rose again.” Hell, traditionally means the place of the dead, not necessarily the place of the damned. All those who merited heaven were waiting in Hell (the place of the dead). Some people refer to it as the Bosom of Abraham.

Sort of like everyone is waiting for the host to get home and unlock the door as only he has the key.

 

[Porknpie]

Why do you suppose this isn’t a part of what the Church teaches? It’s an important passage of scripture.

Zack -

Are a previous poster noted, you are missing 7 books of the OT, removed by a printing company. Missing them, you have an incomplete written gospel that speaks further on purgatory and praying for the dead. Keep in mind though that the complete gospel is both written and passed on through tradition and St Paul says (hold fast to what you have been taught, both spoken and written).

Zack, do you believe the basis of truth comes from the bible?

 

[Porknpie]

Then why did Jesus have to die?

Zack -

God could have saved humanity in ways other than Jesus dying. He could have just snapped his fingers but he chose this path to show his love for us and in return, he looks for us through our free will to love him back. He calls all people to eternal life, but we have to respond and say yes, following his commands (love him, love one another, keep the commandments, forgive one another, be baptized, repent, receive him in the Eucharist…)

 

[MarcoPolo]

Then why did Jesus have to die?

Our prayers have no salvific value or merit without Christ’s Passion. It is his grace that perfects our prayers. So when we present the sacrificial offering of the Eucharist or our own prayers, these are all powered by that sacrifice (or that very sacrifice in the case of the Eucharist). If Christ did not die, our offerings would be like those in the Old Covenant.