Why Can't We Christians Change the World??

[distracted]

I think that if we Christians all got together and lived the Word (to the letter), we could change the world. We could end abortion (legalized) and right many other wrongs…

The reason we don’t (i feel) is that, for one, we are too busy arguing with each other (Protestant against Catholic and vice versa, denomination against denom…). Even Cathlics argue with other Catholics. My “friends”, for example, seem to think i am a religious fanatic… (my “family” also). I myself think i am often downright lazy about doing things i know i should do…

If we Christians really believe that abortion is murder, why don’t we act like it? We should ALL be at the abortion clinics (so called)… protesting every day… How long could “they” last if we all did that kind of thing??

Do we really love Jesus and his Truth as much as we say???

 

[Fisher]

we are supposed to stand against ALL forms of wrong doing, not just what appeals to us. The Bible clearly commands us to REPROVE the works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

According to 2nd Corinthians 4:4, Satan is the god of this world…

“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”

We read in Ephesians 2:2 that Satan influences the unsaved people of this world, “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.” It is abundantly obvious how Satan is working in the world, only because I have God’s Holy Spirit living within me, as a Christian, to show me. We read in 1st John 4:4, “Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.” The Holy Spirit of God is GREATER than the spirit of Satan! The unsaved man knows not God, not having God’s Spirit (1st Corinthians 2:14).

The only defense is to KNOW what the Word of God teaches as a born-again believer. Most people are not saved, and have not God’s Holy Spirit. You’ll NEVER understand God or the Truth of God’s Word until you believe upon Christ as your personal Saviour (1st Corinthians 2:14; John 4:24). Then, once saved, you need to DESIRE the knowledge of the Bible enough to study It (1st Peter 2:2; 2nd Timothy 2:15). Ask God’s Holy Spirit to guide and teach you (John 16:13).

Satan is the god of this world because man’s god is his belly, “Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.” -Philippians 3:19. It is man’s sinful nature that causes him to live for self, which is exactly what Satan’s will for your life is. If you look at the official website of the Church of Satan, they clearly state that their entire underlying philosophy is living for one’s self, as long as it doesn’t hurt another. Satan’s will for your life is for you to do your own thing, and forget about God. It’s ok to say nice things about God, but don’t obey Him. This is the heart of Wicca and Satanism, say nice things about God, but totally disobey Him and His Word. Satan wants you to be your sinful self.

 

[Ruthie]

So, Fisher, you seem to be saying that we can’t begin to save the world until we all believe exactly what you do. Is that right?

My take on distracted’s post is that we need to quit the infighting between Christians, and go out together to defend life.

I agree with him/her.

To God be the glory,

Ruthie

 

[dzheremi]

Some of us have different feelings about this sort of thing. For one thing, I would say that Christians have* already changed the world*, and after them post-modernism, secularism, rationalism, etc have also changed the world. Since these new ways of living (without religion, without rules, let’s all do whatever we want) don’t require anyone to do anything, of course these new forms are predominating, even among the self-identified Christian populations in many places. It is easy to believe in something, hard to live by that belief.

So are you asking why we don’t live better by that belief? I think you and everyone else here can probably come up with many reasons for that, and I personally don’t see the in-fighting ending anytime soon. After all, to everyone on any side, there are good reasons to stay dis-united: The Catholics do not want to turn into “Sola Scriptura” Christians, The Orthodox don’t want to recognize the primacy of Rome (or many other doctrines of the CC), and many Protestants think they don’t need a Church, Apostolic succession, or anything much at all to even be a church.

These sorts of disagreements are much more difficult (I would say impossible) to resolve than abortion is to protest. It is good, of course, to come together where we can. But Christians will not become one without adopting one doctrine and abandoning all others. You are a Catholic. Would you give up your Catholic beliefs to unite with the Orthodox? What then would you give up or change to unite with Protestants? Unity won’t happen so long as it is predicated on Rome giving up her “inventions”, the Orthodox giving up their “heresies”, the Protestants giving up their “Solas”…in short, everyone involved in judging the other guy would have to start accepting what is anathema to them. It’s not going to happen. According to their respective practicioners, each group is already obeying the word, at least in doctrine if not always in practice, so it’s everyone else’s fault that we’re not doing ____!

That is why we cannot change the world in the way that your post suggests. It has nothing to do with “living the word”, but agreeing on what that means. Good luck trying to figure that out. We’ve been trying for the last 2,000 years already.

 

[bpbasilphx]

To the extent that we allow the Holy Spirit to change us–to that extent we have changed the world.

BTW–there’s a book by Peter Gilquist (an evangelical at the time, now an Orthodox priest) entitled WHY WE HAVEN’T CHANGED THE WORLD.

 

[ralphinal]

To the extent that we allow the Holy Spirit to change us–to that extent we have changed the world.

BTW–there’s a book by Peter Gilquist (an evangelical at the time, now an Orthodox priest) entitled WHY WE HAVEN’T CHANGED THE WORLD.

Excellent thought. Mind if I steal it?

 

[Amadeus]

I think that if we Christians all got together and lived the Word (to the letter), we could change the world. We could end abortion (legalized) and right many other wrongs…

The reason we don’t (i feel) is that, for one, we are too busy arguing with each other (Protestant against Catholic and vice versa, denomination against denom…). Even Cathlics argue with other Catholics. My “friends”, for example, seem to think i am a religious fanatic… (my “family” also). I myself think i am often downright lazy about doing things i know i should do…

If we Christians really believe that abortion is murder, why don’t we act like it? We should ALL be at the abortion clinics (so called)… protesting every day… How long could “they” last if we all did that kind of thing??

Do we really love Jesus and his Truth as much as we say???

Simply because Christians of all stripes constitute a mere third (or even less) of the world’s exploding population. We are a significant minority but a minority nonetheless.

Evangelization remains the key to converting the “world!”

Just take China, India, Indonesia, and sub-Saharan Africa alone: that’s about 3 to 3.5 billion souls to preach the Gospels. And the religious and lay missionaries of the Catholic Church is thrust face to face with Islam in Central, South, and Southeast Asia and in sub-Saharan Africa every day.

 

[distracted]

So, Fisher, you seem to be saying that we can’t begin to save the world until we all believe exactly what you do. Is that right?

My take on distracted’s post is that we need to quit the infighting between Christians, and go out together to defend life.

I agree with him/her.

To God be the glory,

Ruthie

Thanks. That was pretty much waht i meant. I am not saying that we should all be fighting against abortion only (and ignoring porn and / or things like that…). but it does seem that the ones calling it (rightfully) murder don’t ACT like its murder… I mean, if someone was trying to murder your neighbors, would you just sit watching TV (or whatever) and tell yourself: Well, the supreme Court will pass a law against that kind of thing some day…" ???

I am “preaching” to myself here as well. I don’t do enough to stop abortion.

My “excuse” these days is that i am so depressed… It seems that no mater what we pro-lifers do… abortion will never end… But then i told myself:

If i could just save ONE baby… one lost Mother…

and that thought makes me happy…

 

[distracted]

The Catholics do not want to turn into “Sola Scriptura” Christians, The Orthodox don’t want to recognize the primacy of Rome (or many other doctrines of the CC), and many Protestants think they don’t need a Church, Apostolic succession, or anything much at all to even be a church.

These sorts of disagreements are much more difficult (I would say impossible) to resolve than abortion is to protest.

If Catholics and Protestants got together to fight abortoin and other evils… maybe they would realize that these differences, while very real and important, are NOT as important as saving lives (whether physical lives or spiritual or whatever… .). I feel you are missing my point…

But Christians will not become one without adopting one doctrine and abandoning all others.

then i feel something is terrible WRONG & should be righted…

You are a Catholic. Would you give up your Catholic beliefs to unite with the Orthodox? What then would you give up or change to unite with Protestants?

Havne’t you ever considered agreeing to disagree on some things so as to be more powerful in achieving goals we both believe in???

That is why we cannot change the world in the way that your post suggests. It has nothing to do with “living the word”, but agreeing on what that means. Good luck trying to figure that out. We’ve been trying for the last 2,000 years already.

I don’t believe this… Why can we not change things? Do you agree with every human being in your family or at work??? What do you do? shun them completely??? Refuse to talk to them becaue they aren’t “orthodox”???

Isn’t ending abortion (saving lives) more important than arguing doctrine to death???

especially considering the fact that arguing doesn’t do much to change people’s mind anyway… a lot of the time, it is a total waste of time…

 

[distracted]

Simply because Christians of all stripes constitute a mere third (or even less) of the world’s exploding population. We are a significant minority but a minority nonetheless.

Evangelization remains the key to converting the “world!”

Just take China, India, Indonesia, and sub-Saharan Africa alone: that’s about 3 to 3.5 billion souls to preach the Gospels. And the religious and lay missionaries of the Catholic Church is thrust face to face with Islam in Central, South, and Southeast Asia and in sub-Saharan Africa every day.

exploding population???

this is something the media tries to convince us of. but there is NO way it can be “exploding” when we have: 1) numerous methods of birth control 2) sterilization 3) nobody wants to have children anymore, to speak of, or they want just one or two 4) “nobody” is truly Catholic anymore & adheres to the Church’s teachings on such matters… 5) abortion on demand in every country except Ireland…

Don’t let yourself be brainwashed. Kill your TV…

 

[everyoneshero]

I agree with distracted, love God and love others are the two most important commands we are given. Why aren’t we acting as though they are the most important? Why do we waste so much time squabbling about the things that are not as important? Sometimes I think all of this seperation is just an excuse. We don’t all have to believe the same things to do good things for God.

 

[dzheremi]

If Catholics and Protestants got together to fight abortoin and other evils… maybe they would realize that these differences, while very real and important, are NOT as important as saving lives (whether physical lives or spiritual or whatever… .). I feel you are missing my point…

Yes, I apparently did miss the point. I thought you were using abortion as an example of an issue on which we can all agree and then asking why there weren’t more things like that on which we can be unified. So that’s why I phrased my answer as I did. I didn’t realize that the entire thread was supposed to be about abortion. Sorry.

Havne’t you ever considered agreeing to disagree on some things so as to be more powerful in achieving goals we both believe in???

Yes. If I didn’t believe that, how else would I have any friends? I do that every day with my Muslim, Protestant, Orthodox, and Atheist/Agnostic friends, as well as some Catholics too. That’s fine. Again, I misunderstood your question.

Isn’t ending abortion (saving lives) more important than arguing doctrine to death???

Yes.

especially considering the fact that arguing doesn’t do much to change people’s mind anyway… a lot of the time, it is a total waste of time…

I agree, and yet we still do it, even in this thread.

Even when we agree we don’t always understand each other!

 

[ChristianKnight]

Too many Christians are becoming adaptive. They use the word, for one thing, then ignorei t for the next. I am an example. My best friend is a lesbian pagan. I love her to death, cause she is an actual friend, she will not tell a lie about me, she won’t let go a secret I tell her. I don’t agree with her ways, she knows that. That is why when people discuss religion, we talk about why smurfs are blue.

 

[Fisher]

“And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; but have walked after the imagination of their own heart, and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them: therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood, and give them water of gall to drink. I will scatter them also among the heathen, whom neither they nor their fathers have known: and I will send a sword after them, till I have consumed them.”
Jeremiah 9:13-16

We must repent of our wrongdoing (or lack of doing). We must get on our face before Him and tell Him how sorry we are for being so disobedient. We must apologize for only thinking of ourselves. We must tell Him we are ashamed of our pride and our stupidity in following the ways of man. Seek Him. Seek His face.

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” (2Chronicles 7:14)

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If i could just save ONE baby… one lost Mother…

and that thought makes me happy…

That’s a beautiful thought.

I saw the producer and star of the movie “Bella” on Life on the Rock.

He was recounting his first ever trip to an abortion clinic protest. He is a famous Mexican soap opera star, so he was recognized by a young Mexican couple on their way in.

To make a long story short, he talked them out of having an abortion. They contacted him months later to tell him that they had had the baby and gotten married. They named the baby after him.

I get chills just typing this. What an impact that must have! Just think if we all did that just one time in our life!

 

[distracted]

I agree with distracted, love God and love others are the two most important commands we are given. Why aren’t we acting as though they are the most important? Why do we waste so much time squabbling about the things that are not as important? Sometimes I think all of this seperation is just an excuse. We don’t all have to believe the same things to do good things for God.

Very well said (I especially liked the first four words

(its not every day i find someone who agrees with me )

Anyway… i like the point you make about how maybe its an excuse… an excuse to not do some uncomfortable things that we probably need to be doing… I feel somewhat like a hypocrite because i have yet to contact (whomever i need to contact) to get involved in pro-life work (more)… True, i do have things i have kind of gotten “locked into” for a week or so… but i could do more to stop abortion. Right now, i leave info in public places… As stated eslewhere… if i could only save ONE life… it will all be more than worth it…

Now that i think about it, when you save ONE life… you really save at least TWO… when you save a baby, you save his/her mother from self-desturction… and possible Hell… We can all at least do THAT can’t we - put info in public places anonymously???