Sherlock:
Oh fer Pete’s sake…look, why would anyone want to mess with the sacrament as it is?
That’s right. We don’t want to mess it up. That’s why under unusual situations and especially in emergencies it can be important to know the particulars precisely. As long as you have the ability to make it to a nice church confessional, there really isn’t any application to such speculation.
Good grief, how about some common sense here? With the odd exception mandated by odd situations, “physically present” means “with the priest” as is currently practiced in the sacrament.
OK, then what does “common sense” say about the prisoner over the phone situation? What if it were prisoner by closed circuit? Do you suggest that “common sense” can either objectively determine these things, or that these situations are unimportant enough the Church and her people should not concern themselves with them?
This nit-picking reminds me of the worst of scholasticism, with endless and fruitless debates about such weighty matters as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Subjective and pointless discussions about just what “personally present” means will get us…where? And why?
Why not? BTW, I agree with Marilyn vos Savant that probably no angels can “dance” on the head of a pin. I think her reasoning had something to do with their being able to have physical contact with the head of the pin exerting force against them. Therefore the answer is, “none.”
Are you simply curious and like to subject details to a kind of scientific method (as if this were a chemical compound, made up of precisely measurable units) for fun,
Speaking for myself, yes. I’m an engineer. I like taking apart things that work perfectly well so I can try to figure out how they work.
or are you wanting to make confession even easier?
Now you’re getting warmer. In my own case, I was totally frantic, and the telephone was the only tool I had to contact a priest.
(Feeling humbled by having to stand in line at the confessional? Self-esteem damaged by having to submit, like everyone else, to that tedious rite? Don’t like the kneelers at your church’s confessionals?
In the experience I mentioned, I was physically locked up and unable to stand in line at the confessional. My self-esteem is beyond damaging and has actually become a source of personal amusement, so that’s not a factor. As far as kneelers, you know I never really thought about them that much. Using the kneelers can be uncomfortable for me because I have gained some weight and my stomach boinks into the pew in front and keep me front balancing my center of weight over my knees, so I have to bend them a bit. Luckily during Mass I don’t sit in the pews so I can just kneel on the floor, or stay seated and act like the Rules Don’t Apply To Me.
Now, just for you! New!! Improved!! Fast and easy confessions!!! In between business meetings? Take care of those pesky obligations the quick and easy way, with Dial-A-Priest!!)
You know, I like that. Why not? I’ve thought about writing a web site program that could automate confessions entirely, but I never thought it would be sacramental – just like a training ground for people to practice up so they can build their confidence to go make a good and proper confession.
Shzeesh…our culture is already disconnected from real, breathing human beings. We don’t need the Church to add to that.
You are right. When I personally handled the data entry of thousands of personal comments by Wichita Diocese member in the Third Synod for review by bishop Thomas Olmstead, I got some pretty good idea on what people of different parishes think they need.
Parishes far away from the city had a whole different outlook. They cannot just come to events at the spiritual life center as easily as those of us at the diocese seat. They thirst for more contact with the Church beyond just going to Mass, for which they feel lucky they have a priest at all, and wish they had more multimedia and online resources for spiritual development and participation in programs those of us in town take for granted.
Let me turn this around a bit. You first chide us that we argue at all, but then you join the argument yourself by adding your opinion that telephone options are a negative thing. You want to argue too but not be seen hanging around with us to do it. I see how you are.
Let me ask you what the big deal is, if a sinner having a spiritual crisis of some sort, who lives 40 miles from the nearest live priest and has no car, calls the priest and wants absolution, then why do you not want the Church to allow that priest to handle the situation without the priest having to drive out 40 miles each way, and even then with possibly other conflicts. Why are you so against the Church being able to extend her reach by using technology?
Alan
From what Chris told me, she had one of the most beautiful spirits at that high school; most of the school took off for her funeral, and local and national dignitaries and politicians and leaders of many faiths attended that Catholic funeral. Even in her death she brought people together. :crying:
