Why can't we pray after we die?

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Wm777

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They say, after we die, we cannot pray for ourselves any longer, but I don’t quite understand how death is meant here. Is it physical or spiritual death or both?

What’s most confusing though seems to be simply why we cannot pray for ourselves after death… because it seems like we should always be able to pray…
 
I believe that’s only if we are in purgatory or hell…
In those places, others can pray FOR us, but if we’re in heaven, we can pray and intercede for others.
 
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This question really does confuse me though…

What you say seems more like spiritual death rather than physical death…

But, then, if that were so - another way to look at the question might be, if you’re in a state of mortal sin here on earth, then does it do any good to pray? My inclination is to say “of course so…”, but, then, it seems kind of strange to think of it that way…

On the other hand, I dont see what the advantage of being physically alive is either… I mean, okay, so we have free will here on earth, and - when we commit a sin - we have time to run to the confessional before we die… But - suppose we missed the confession before we died - isnt praying for an eternity more important than a few decades? Why go to Sheol or Hell? Who praises or appreciates God there?
 
From my understanding, in purgatory you can pray for others, just not for yourself.

In hell, you have no desire to pray, as you become a ball of pure hatred, having lost all of God’s grace. Pretty much you turn into an internet troll, but forever.
 
St Faustina has a rather unusual encounter with Jesus when she encounters - of all things - a rather large bug in the infirmary during winter…

Like most ladies, she didnt particularly like the bug, but then she sees Jesus, and he explains to her “See I’m sustaining it by thinking about it…”

So - if we cannot pray for ourselves after we die - then is it like God just forgets about us, if he doesn’t want us? That would seem to make sense when you consider the bug example. It’s like why would God sustain something futile?

But I still dont get why we can’t exercise free will to pray after we physically die (unless we are in Purgatory or Heaven)… I guess thirstypirate makes sense, but his explanation still seems to put the ball a bit more in our court than Jesus’ judgement…
 
Wm777 said:
But I still dont get why we can’t exercise free will to pray after we physically die
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My view: free will is not the same after we die. For those seeing God face to face (Beatific Vision), it becomes impossible to sin. For those in hell, which is for the faithless and those who reject God, it becomes impossible to do any good. In hell they are in total separation from God. For those in Purgatory, what is possible or not during that process of purgation, we do not really know. But we know that eventually they will see God.
Also, Heaven and hell are final destinations. The only place where it would make sense to pray for yourself would be in Purgatory.
 
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Wm777 said:
They say, after we die, we cannot pray for ourselves any longer, but I don’t quite understand how death is meant here. Is it physical or spiritual death or both?
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When you die, the soul survives the body. So, physical death, not spiritual death, is meant here.
Wm777 said:
What’s most confusing though seems to be simply why we cannot pray for ourselves after death… because it seems like we should always be able to pray…
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Sure we can still pray for ourselves after death, for we do not lose the ability to pray. The situation is different, though, depending on where you are. If you are in Heaven, you don’t need to pray for yourself, because you are already enjoying God in Heaven. If you are in hell, you don’t want to pray because you don’t want to be with God whom you hate. If you are in purgatory, you can pray for yourself, but your prayers for yourself will not do you any good because it is no longer meritorious. The place where you earn merit for yourself is here below, while you are still “on your way” to Heaven.
Wm777 said:
But, then, if that were so - another way to look at the question might be, if you’re in a state of mortal sin here on earth, then does it do any good to pray? My inclination is to say “of course so…”, but, then, it seems kind of strange to think of it that way…
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If you’re in a state of mortal sin here on earth, it will do you good to pray. In fact, it is the right time to pray when your prayers are meritorious. It may appear strange to you, but it is what it is. Our life here below is our place of trial. This is where God finds out who will be faithful to Him and who will not. This is the place where He opens His merciful love to repentant sinners – yes, you could still obtain forgiveness if you are truly repentant, and even if you die before you make it to the confessional. Because, strictly, only those who choose not to be with God, will go to hell after death.
 
Wm777 said:
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But - suppose we missed the confession before we died - isnt praying for an eternity more important than a few decades? …
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Always make an act of perfect contrition if you sin mortally, if you can honestly do so. It will restore your state of grace.

Catechism
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; [620] for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. …
1058 The Church prays that no one should be lost: “Lord, let me never be parted from you.” If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God “desires all men to be saved” ( 1 Tim 2:4), and that for him “all things are possible” ( Mt 19:26).
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Making an act of perfect contrition is possible but it was never said by anyone that it is easy, especially in a highly stressful situation when you may well be in a lot of pain or even suffering brain damage. What is also true is that someone may die so suddenly that they do not have time to make any act of contrition whatsoever, that person may well be damned.
 
oliver109 said:
What is also true is that someone may die so suddenly that they do not have time to make any act of contrition whatsoever, that person may well be damned.
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God is not an arbitrary legalist.

Don’t you think God knows the human heart well enough that he knows who would repent and who wouldn’t?

Does it seem right for the Omnipotent God to say “well gee Joey, I know if you hadn’t been crushed by that Mack truck instantly you would have repented… But since you didn’t say the sinners prayer, I’m gonna have to have my angel show you to the door… Buh bye.”

I don’t recognize or worship that petty, impotent “god.” Unfortunately, it seems many of my co-religionists worship a false god who is utterly alien to me. My God is the Just Judge of All, who takes into account every little detail and never renders an unjust verdict or decree.
 
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Who says that we can’t? That’s certainly not the teaching of the Catholic Church or the Orthodox churches. Those in heaven, are more alive, not less.
 
Wm777 said:
another way to look at the question might be, if you’re in a state of mortal sin here on earth, then does it do any good to pray? My inclination is to say “of course so…”, but, then, it seems kind of strange to think of it that way…
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On this side of eternity, one can always repent. If however, one dies, (body and soul separate), and one is in mortal sin, they go immediately (their soul) to hell. Where there is no getting out. Prayers do them no good. At the end of time, and the resurrection of the dead occurs, then body and soul reunite. If the soul was in heaven they are now in heaven body and soul. If the soul was in hell, they are now in hell body and soul. Purgatory ceases to exist. Anyone in purgatory at the time, is reunited with their body and goes to heaven

Purgatory as the CCC states, http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=purgatory&xsubmit=Search&s=SS.
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Wm777:
On the other hand, I dont see what the advantage of being physically alive is either… I mean, okay, so we have free will here on earth, and - when we commit a sin - we have time to run to the confessional before we die… But - suppose we missed the confession before we died - isnt praying for an eternity more important than a few decades? Why go to Sheol or Hell? Who praises or appreciates God there?
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Hell in the CCC http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=hell&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

We send ourselves to hell by our actions. God is judge, and pronounces our direction based on how we chose to live.
 
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ChristMyLife said:
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oliver109:
What is also true is that someone may die so suddenly that they do not have time to make any act of contrition whatsoever, that person may well be damned.
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God is not an arbitrary legalist.

Don’t you think God knows the human heart well enough that he knows who would repent and who wouldn’t?

Does it seem right for the Omnipotent God to say “well gee Joey, I know if you hadn’t been crushed by that Mack truck instantly you would have repented… But since you didn’t say the sinners prayer, I’m gonna have to have my angel show you to the door… Buh bye.”

I don’t recognize or worship that petty, impotent “god.” Unfortunately, it seems many of my co-religionists worship a false god who is utterly alien to me. My God is the Just Judge of All, who takes into account every little detail and never renders an unjust verdict or decree.
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AND

God knows who is in the book of life before He created the world. It’s not a book that grows and shrinks throughout history. It doesn’t change. He knows EVERYONE and where EVERYONE goes, before the foundation of the world. No surprises. It’s US who don’t know. It’s US who have to live our lives in the time of history we live in, in the proper faith. Just as with Jeremiah, God knows EVERYONE before they are born Jer1:5 RSVCE - “Before I formed you in the womb I - Bible Gateway Thus He knows where they will spend eternity from the foundation of the world. One is either in the book of life from the foundation of the world or they aren’t.

Jesus looking ahead in history, IMV gives the scariest passage in scripture and He ought to know, given He does all the judging… Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway
 
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A soul in Purgatory praying for himself does not really make sense. It’s like doing a strict bread and water fast for a day and then also deciding to abstain from meat that same day. There’s really no new additional merit there. That merit is already included in your fast–you can’t get more merit for something that is already being accounted to you. On the other hand, while you are doing your bread and water fast, a friend could abstain from meat and offer that up on your behalf. That would be an addition of merit.

A soul in purgatory is expiating or making satisfaction for his sins–that’s what purgatory ultimately is. When we pray for such a soul, we are providing an additional help to him in this regard.

Since the soul is already fully engaged in expiating his sins, he’s essentially already accomplishing what praying for himself would accomplish. But the prayer of another for him helps him.
 
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