Why can't women simply say "I'm not interested." to men?

[John_Lazarus]

I’m sure you are right.

I know that I don’t like upsetting people. Men or women. You never know how someone is going to react.

In addition, sometimes it isn’t that the woman isn’t direct. It is that a woman could hit a guy over the head with a two by four and the the guys would still be wondering if he just asked the right way, she might say yes.

I remember a Loony Tunes cartoon, with that poster boy for sexual harassment, Pepe Le Pew. He was chasing the cat (that he thought was a female skunk), he had her in an embrace and was trying to kiss her, and she smacked him upside the head with a sledgehammer. When he regained consciousness, he grinned at her and said, “Flirt.”

It has been years. I’ve been married for over 20. But I went out with a guy, as a favor to my BIL. The guy was new in town and had been invited to a big company gig. I agreed to go.

The guy couldn’t take no for an answer. “No, thank you.” “No, I can’t.” No." None of those worked.

I finally said, “Look dude, it was a mercy date. I am not interested. I will never be interested. Leave me alone.” What did he do? He asked if he could call me the next week.

…So does this mean we’re not on for the Dungeons and Dragons marathon next week??

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Yes, that’s true. The problem is the asker never really knows the background information, and the answerer never really knows how much the asker can figure out. I think it might be a good idea to offer a bit more information when making a more spaced out counteroffer, just to avoid misunderstandings.

This is true too. I personally would explain why rather than just saying how about next week. I’d say I have X, Y, and Z, but Saturday is free. How about then?

 

[Xantippe]

This is true too. I personally would explain why rather than just saying how about next week. I’d say I have X, Y, and Z, but Saturday is free. How about then?

Within reason.

If it’s “I’m having a pylonidal cyst drained this week,” then vagueness is probably in order. Some intimacies need to be saved for later in the relationship.

 

[chevalier]

1. I have never accepted a date from a guy that I didn’t see as having the tiniest bit of potential. However, that doesn’t guarantee that I will still like him after the first date. The main reason I continue to date men even if I’m not totally into them? I figure I might like him more if I get to know them better. It’s called giving someone a chance.

Procedural justice.

You never know about a person until you get to talk to them for a bit.

I’m always surprised with the kind of sense of fairness women develop. Being a chauvinist male pig one would normally expect that kind of thing only from men and then only those who were into formal sports.

That having been said, I think about 3 or 4 dates is plenty of time.

I always say if I met the right woman I’d probably know within the first hour after meeting her. But then life always turns out more complicated than that. This said, most problems in relationships go back to things people ignored before or failed to think about.

1. Oddly enough I get pressure from other females (think mothers who want grandchildren) when I reject men. I used to go out with guys I wasn’t all that crazy about in order to appease their insistence that I give every guy a chance.

Doesn’t surprise me.

I also get guilt trips from female friends about how cruel I am when I reject guys directly. I try to tell them that guys appreciate it and see it as more respectful to just be upfront

Of course. Unless they really are hypocrites who don’t care other than for getting their way (it’s a good thing the screen is not a mirror as I’m typing this ). Again, a calm, credible, down-to-earth no is the best help you can give a guy in such a situation. In fact, it’s almost therapeutic — if you compare it to trying to figure out what you wanted to say, whether that was what you really meant to say, whatever is wrong with him, whatever he’s done wrong etc. BUT, it really needs to be said that we men don’t give this kind of information to women. Even though perhaps it would be equally helpful in their case. It’s too hard to do. For example I can’t get myself to do it.

but apparently women seem to have this collective belief that dropping subtle hints is somehow morally preferable to being upfront and honest.

It does have the potential to spare people’s feelings and dignity. I can tell you, as a man, that it doesn’t feel too good when women are too direct and up to the point. That’s kinda like hearing your own mum say Santa does not exist!

I think it has to do with how girls are conditioned from an early age to always be nice.

I wish. But it probably has more to do with avoidance of confrontation or scratches on one’s own image, regardless of the sex. But perhaps I’m just being cynical.

I’ve had friends that intentionally treated their girlfriends horribly in order to avoid having to go through the process of breaking up with her.

While that happens, there is also withdrawal of charm, toning it down, taking away the incentive for people to fall in love etc. And that may obviously feel cold and rude on the receiving end.

This is something I learned but guys sometimes actually prefer to have the girl dump them.

Women take it really hard when you break up with them. Especially those with self esteem problems, which means practically everybody younger than 30-35 these days.

This said, it may be natural to think that limiting someone’s access to things to love you for will make that person hurt less when the break-up takes place, or that allowing your image to be tarnished in someone’s eyes will make it easier for that person to get over you. But I wouldn’t be too surprised if it turned out things don’t really work that way.

 

[chevalier]

Yesterday I met a girl at a triathlon. (By the way, races are great environments because everyone looks and feels good!) I talked to her, the convo was above average, so I got her number. There was NO mention of a boyfriend.

Then later I look at her Facebook (come on, you guys do this too) and it says she has a boyfriend.

My question is, should I call her? Also, why didn’t she mention her boyfriend??? Being subtle about rejection is one thing, but why couldn’t she be honest and direct about crucial information like relationship status? Do women understand how humiliating it is to flirt with a woman who is already in a relationship? We don’t want your boyfriends kicking our tails, you know!

A lot depends on the context in which she told you she has a boyfriend. Perhaps it was a casual mention meaning she wasn’t thinking consciously about it and she doesn’t read you as trying to flirt with her. Or perhaps she’s letting you down gently or protecting herself from unwanted advances, whether she has seen the need earlier or later (it sometimes takes some time to notice some things).

Understand how it works from the POV of someone who’s in a relationship. A girl who has a boyfriend isn’t too sensitive to guys. She isn’t trying to pick up signals. She isn’t analysing much. She isn’t worrying what guys think about her. It may take her more time than a single girl to notice that you’re flirting. On the other hand, people who are in relationships, even married people, aren’t made of stone. It may take them a while before they realize they’ve been forgetting themselves a little lately.

Generally, people aren’t 100% efficient, they make mistakes, are slow sometimes or have a bad day, aren’t following the shortest path to the solution. This is hard to allow for when you’re looking at someone’s behaviour analytically and especially comparing to some sort of ideal pattern of what a rational person supposedly does in order to achieve a set goal (which is, among other things, why the ‘reasonable person’ only exists in court rulings and law books).

 

[chevalier]

This is true too. I personally would explain why rather than just saying how about next week. I’d say I have X, Y, and Z, but Saturday is free. How about then?

Yeah. I probably do that too when I don’t want the other person (no matter who really) to feel bad about the protracted wait.

Reminds me of something. A couple of years ago I had that short and turbulent acquaintance with a certain remarkable person. While she wasn’t necessarily returning my interest in kind, she had that habit of inserting short relevant information to avoid unnecessarily hurting my feelings — for example when mentioning that she was meeting someone after work, she would add that it was a girlfriend, or that it was a business meeting, which took her one or two words to convey and didn’t interrupt her rhythm much, altough it was pretty obvious she was doing it on purpose (and probably letting it show). It was quite endearing.

Firstly, I don’t really think this has anything to do with gender. Men don’t generally come out and say “I don’t like you, I’m not interested” either.

Yeah. Women are mostly left to figure out why we aren’t calling any more, or why we are calling less often or not doing anything to move the relationship to the next stage. Unlike men, though, women are definitely not expected to phone and ask, so they have to take it in silence. Which is probably quite hurtful.

Secondly, nobody owes anyone else an explanation about why they do not like the other person, or are not interested in dating them.

True, and both sexes forget that. But the problem may be even more sensitive with women, as in the, ‘what’s wrong with me,’ kind of thing.

If she doesn’t want to go out with you, she can say “no thanks” or “I’m busy”, and that really should be answer enough.

Not necessarily. To some people — both speakers and audience — ‘I’m busy,’ really means, ‘I’m busy.’

Then there’s the cost of making a mistake. I took the hint fourteen years ago, you know. Turns out I was wrong. I learnt the truth by accident from her cousin who was my friend and only after several years. She was far advanced in a relationship with some other guy, so I never told her. She eventually married that guy.

Turns out odd chances are sometimes true. Ignore a dozen of such chance and you’ll have missed an open door once or twice.

(It took me more years to realize that she too had my phone number, so she could have given me a call. )

 

[chevalier]

I doubt that women, who have high intuitive powers, could be so clueless.

Women are just as clueless as men are. Their supposed advantage is way overstated, and it comes down to the fact that each sex misunderstands the other. Only less thought is given to women misunderstanding men, or less talk made.

Men don’t approach women they don’t know just to be in the friend zone. If a man approaches a woman, that means he is interested in her.

Yeah, that’s usually true, though there are men who genuinely like to socialize or to entertain others with conversation, help them pass the time etc.

As for the second paragraph, no, a woman shouldn’t say, “Hi my name is ____; I have a boyfriend,” but a woman does have several minutes into the conversation to at least mention her boyfriend.

Perhaps a good idea, though it’d better not be an in-your-face mention. Someone could feel hurt when just being courteous or sociable.

Or, to abruptly end the conversation and say “It was nice meeting you.”

Which means it wasn’t nice meeting you. And the abrupt interruption and departure makes her look bad in the man’s eyes, yet another cold ill-mannered woman and good riddance. Nope. She has every right to be courteous and not do anything that could make her look any less than that.

Besides, even though men may often approach women with a different purpose in mind than just making new friends, the truth is that men make many such acquaintances all the time because at that stage there are no obligations yet, not even implied promises (though some women can take even a simple courteous conversation as a promise, but anyway). This means the man is totally free to move on to the next one. In return, I think, it’s only fair to not hold the woman to any special expectations either.

If you’re only seeing women’s value as a potential romantic partners, and not as a fellow human beings that might just be interested in being friends, maybe there is a reason you’re having troubles. I think it might be time to stop and reflect. I hope this didn’t sound harsh, but as a woman, I honestly would never even consider spending the rest of my life with a man who didn’t even have the patience to be my friend first. If they don’t have time in the beginning, then when?

While we’re surprisingly alike, men and women are wired differently in some regards. This is one of them. We can actually approach a woman just to make friends, or even with an open mind and not thinking where things could possibly go, but still we’re on the lookout for a wife (some simply for sex). Marriage may be inferior to consecrated celibacy, but it’s still an honourable calling, so you can’t blame men. Besides, don’t tell me single women aren’t on DEFCON 3, I’m too old to believe that.

For your information, while it’s possible for men to make friends first and welcome romance later, men are usually more frontloaded. This means a defined and prolonged friendship will typically kill romance because it makes you mahram. Whether male or female people can’t really put their feelings and desires in their pocket or totally adapt to one another’s preferred schedule or path of progression. So you can’t really expect a man to be able to kill the fire and then it back at full strength.

In theory I too am a fan of patience and some sort of romantic friendship (the kind where you’re taking 20 non-dates to play chess rather than 3 dates to start talking about loans and mortgages — show me which woman really is on the same page, by the way), but practice does funny things to theory.

Within reason.

If it’s “I’m having a pylonidal cyst drained this week,” then vagueness is probably in order. Some intimacies need to be saved for later in the relationship.

And no matter which stage, there is always room for courtesy and even some polite distance. Directness isn’t really the same as closeness.

 

[maryjk]

…So does this mean we’re not on for the Dungeons and Dragons marathon next week??

Nope. But my husband would be happy to participate . :thumbsup:

 

[chevalier]

Relationships should not be rushed, but for men on here I think the issue is romantic communication.

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

I’m 33 and I don’t have time to just get to know people. And I don’t have time for confusion. Yeah I need to be more direct from now on.

Well, yeah, but even with a man one can’t make it an explicit test ride or job interview. Some women actually do that, and it doesn’t feel good to be on the receiving end of it. (There are exceptions, but exceptions pretty much consist in leaving some things unsaid.)

I’m so tired of this single purgatory and I can’t take it anymore.

It’s okay to take a break! Sometimes you just need to rest and stop worrying for a while. I’ve mostly turned to books these last two years, and few things have ever felt so good.

Yep, all of this. I’d suggest not looking at every woman you talk to as a prospective partner, and just get to know people. And if you are going to get someone’s number with the intention of asking her out, tell her that directly: “I’ve really enjoyed talking to you, and I’d like to take you out sometime.”

Cultural differences apply. If you tried that where I grew up… (The mood would normally be much more subjunctive. )

Nope. But my husband would be happy to participate . :thumbsup:

Oh come on. You should 've brought your husband along without previous warning. That would have been fun.

---

Okay, Good People. Enough of me in this thread for now. Sometimes I get a little carried when my favourite subjects pop up.

 

[CaliLobo]

Don’t kid yourself, we can not pick up on the clue. Believe it or not, us women will often assume at first that you are just being nice or want to have a conversation. We don’t assume that talking to you is like some sort of weird pre-date “scout” out. It also doesn’t always cross our mind that we immediately need to mention our boyfriend. We’re just talking, right?

Update: Yep. I texted her that I wasn’t sure if she was in a relationship but I’d like to see her again. She said she was in a long-term relationship but it was nice to meet me.

However, I asked why she didn’t mention it earlier. She said she thought I was interested in talking about racing more, and that once I mentioned yogurt she was taken aback and didn’t know what to say. She said she is so friendly that she thinks friends first.

Ladies, please understand. Unless it’s for a business purpose, men don’t take the courage to approach and talk to women they don’t know so they can enter the just-be-friends zone!!

 

[Xantippe]

Update: Yep. I texted her that I wasn’t sure if she was in a relationship but I’d like to see her again. She said she was in a long-term relationship but it was nice to meet me.

However, I asked why she didn’t mention it earlier. She said she thought I was interested in talking about racing more, and that once I mentioned yogurt she was taken aback and didn’t know what to say. She said she is so friendly that she thinks friends first.

Ladies, please understand. Unless it’s for a business purpose, men don’t take the courage to approach and talk to women they don’t know so they can enter the just-be-friends zone!!

Isn’t that a little weird as an approach?

I talk to men socially fairly often (primarily friends’ husbands and dads from school) because that’s the requirement of the situation. Because it’s not a big deal, it’s not stressful. As a married lady, I’m just whiling away the time at school events or field trips or potlucks or birthday parties or whatever.

Maybe if you talked to more women just socially, you’d be less stressed out when trying to make a romantic approach?

 

[CaliLobo]

Isn’t that a little weird as an approach?

I talk to men socially fairly often (primarily friends’ husbands and dads from school) because that’s the requirement of the situation. Because it’s not a big deal, it’s not stressful. As a married lady, I’m just whiling away the time at school events or field trips or potlucks or birthday parties or whatever.

Maybe if you talked to more women just socially, you’d be less stressed out when trying to make a romantic approach?

I presume you wear your ring, so that’s how you mention your husband.

I’ve thought about talking to women just socially. Part of it is my lack of trust in letting things just happen. I feel like if I let go of the romantic issue, then the romantic issue will let go of me.

 

[underacloud]

Ladies, please understand. Unless it’s for a business purpose, men don’t take the courage to approach and talk to women they don’t know so they can enter the just-be-friends zone!!

Sorry, but you’re wrong on this point, and it probably affects your whole line of reasoning on these issues.

To be clear - I am a man.

As Xantippe suggests, if you talk to women more often in general, you may find that you build more confidence via having a better general rapport with them.

The woman you met at the race was more than willing to interact with you. She wasn’t single, but the next one might be. Just keep meeting women and building your converstational skills with them.

It is also worth noting that if you come across as generally friendly, single women at any given event may be more inclined to talk with you and have their guard down. If they think you are only approaching women you want to ask out, their guard may already be up.

 

[CaliLobo]

Sorry, but you’re wrong on this point, and it probably affects your whole line of reasoning on these issues.

To be clear - I am a man.

As Xantippe suggests, if you talk to women more often in general, you may find that you build more confidence via having a better general rapport with them.

The woman you met at the race was more than willing to interact with you. She wasn’t single, but the next one might be. Just keep meeting women and building your converstational skills with them.

It is also worth noting that if you come across as generally friendly, single women at any given event may be more inclined to talk with you and have their guard down. If they think you are only approaching women you want to ask out, their guard may already be up.

Let me clarify. I include “courage.” If I wanted to just be friends, there would be no issue of fear.

 

[underacloud]

Let me clarify. I include “courage.” If I wanted to just be friends, there would be no issue of fear.

There is always courage involved in approaching a stranger to talk. I’m suggesting that approaching people who you may not have immediately identified as potential dates may help build confidence and conversational skills.

There’s also the reality that for most people, we don’t know if we are interested in dating someone merely based on appearance or a first impression. So we need to meet lots of people before we can narrow things down. Developing the skills to get to know people in general will help overcome the fears associated specifically with meeting potential dates.

There’s also the possibility, as mentioned, that getting around and meeting people, and coming across as generally friendly, will make anyone who you do want to get to know as a potential date more inclined to be receptive to your approach.

Practice makes perfect. Practice your conversational skills.

 

[chevalier]

CaliLobo, I understand your frustration, but you don’t really have a claim, so to say. It’s understandable also that people just want to socialize and don’t need to bring up their ‘relationship status’ until it becomes relevant, and it doesn’t become relevant until something makes it — e.g. flirting or innuendo or allusions or whatever. But definitely not a simple social conversation. You need to be more overt than that if you wish to make relationship status immediately relevant and subject to mandatory disclosure.

 

[Lorelei12]

Update: Yep. I texted her that I wasn’t sure if she was in a relationship but I’d like to see her again. She said she was in a long-term relationship but it was nice to meet me.

However, I asked why she didn’t mention it earlier. She said she thought I was interested in talking about racing more, and that once I mentioned yogurt she was taken aback and didn’t know what to say. She said she is so friendly that she thinks friends first.

Ladies, please understand. Unless it’s for a business purpose, men don’t take the courage to approach and talk to women they don’t know so they can enter the just-be-friends zone!!

I mentioned this before, but you’ll have better luck if you look at a woman as a person to get to know rather than as a potential date, even if you are attracted to her and interested.

And- not all men approach women just because they want to date them. Some guys are just friendly, and aren’t looking at every woman they talk to in a utilitarian way. The ladies aren’t the ones who need to “understand” anything here- a different approach is needed by any man who thinks just because he talks to a woman she should know he wants to date her. Frankly, I find that creepy. In my single days, if someone only approached me because he thought I was cute, but knew absolutely nothing about me and wanted a date I’d find it weird.

You want to make a woman feel comfortable. That does not include assuming she is interested in dating you when you know nothing about each other.

 

[maryjk]

I mentioned this before, but you’ll have better luck if you look at a woman as a person to get to know rather than as a potential date, even if you are attracted to her and interested.

And- not all men approach women just because they want to date them. Some guys are just friendly, and aren’t looking at every woman they talk to in a utilitarian way. The ladies aren’t the ones who need to “understand” anything here- a different approach is needed by any man who thinks just because he talks to a woman she should know he wants to date her. **Frankly, I find that creepy. In my single days, if someone only approached me because he thought I was cute, but knew absolutely nothing about me and wanted a date I’d find it weird. **

You want to make a woman feel comfortable. That does not include assuming she is interested in dating you when you know nothing about each other.

I agree.

My first thought would have been, “So you only want to get me into bed. You don’t really want to know me? Why should I bother?”

 

[Xantippe]

I presume you wear your ring, so that’s how you mention your husband.

**Neither one. I have pudgy paws, so I haven’t worn a wedding band for a while. (Sad but true.) Going almost everywhere with 1-3 kids does provide a strong visual cue, though. **

I’ve thought about talking to women just socially. Part of it is my lack of trust in letting things just happen. I feel like if I let go of the romantic issue, then the romantic issue will let go of me.

You can’t be chasing EVERYBODY all the time–it will just wear you out.

Maybe start with chatting up women you aren’t scared of and then work up to the more intimidating women? Remember–even the less intimidating women have single friends, single sisters, single cousins, etc. A lot of married women keep a mental list of “single friends or family that I want to get married soon.” Oh, and if the married woman is nice and interesting, that raises the odds that her friend or relative is also nice and interesting.

 

[Avocadomom]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but many women have a hard time telling men pursuing them, in black and white, that they are not interested.

Is it because women are so full of themselves that they think the man is going to be destroyed if she tells him this?

Why do women think it’s okay to string men along or drop hints about their lack of interest that men are just supposed to “get it” without her saying anything simple and clear?

Discuss

I don’t know if YOU’VE noticed this, but many men have a hard time taking a hint.

Is it because men are so full of themselves that they are easily able to ignore or rationalize away cues that a woman isn’t interested in them?

Why do men think it’s okay to keep pestering and pursuing women, even after the women have given verbal and physical cues that they do not want to date?

It’s considered impolite to outright reject someone. It’s understood by most people that an “easy let down” is a kinder way to protect the pursuer’s pride, while communicating that one is not interested in taking a relationship any further. For example…

“Would you like to go for drinks on Thursday night?”

“Oh, darn it. I have to visit my grandmother on Thursday. My schedule is really busy right now. I barely have time for anything.”

This is clearcut “no, and never” answer. Don’t keep asking!

“Would you like to go for drinks on Thursday night?”

“Oh, I wish I could but I already have plans with my grandmother! Are you available Friday or Saturday? I’d love to go then!”

This is a “yes” answer!

If someone is interested in dating you, they will move Heaven and Earth to make it happen. If someone seems chronically “busy” - it’s because she is trying to tell you to buzz off.