Why can't women simply say "I'm not interested." to men?

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I mentioned this before, but you’ll have better luck if you look at a woman as a person to get to know rather than as a potential date, even if you are attracted to her and interested.

And- not all men approach women just because they want to date them. Some guys are just friendly, and aren’t looking at every woman they talk to in a utilitarian way. The ladies aren’t the ones who need to “understand” anything here- a different approach is needed by any man who thinks just because he talks to a woman she should know he wants to date her. Frankly, I find that creepy. In my single days, if someone only approached me because he thought I was cute, but knew absolutely nothing about me and wanted a date I’d find it weird.

You want to make a woman feel comfortable. That does not include assuming she is interested in dating you when you know nothing about each other.
Thank you for reminding me that women don’t want to be hit on, and that women want men who are interested in learning about their lives.

However, this only works if you know you’ll see them again. What if it’s a situation in which you’re not sure you’ll see them again?

I’m 33 and have little time to spare. (You can call me young all you want; the fact remains, I’ll be 35 soon and 40 soon after that so I gotta start cracking. Plus in Korean culture I’ll be 36 next Lunar New Year, so I am overdue for marriage.) So that is why I am exploring all possibilities, including approaching total strangers.
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Avocadomom:
I don’t know if YOU’VE noticed this, but many men have a hard time taking a hint.

Is it because men are so full of themselves that they are easily able to ignore or rationalize away cues that a woman isn’t interested in them?

Why do men think it’s okay to keep pestering and pursuing women, even after the women have given verbal and physical cues that they do not want to date?

It’s considered impolite to outright reject someone. It’s understood by most people that an “easy let down” is a kinder way to protect the pursuer’s pride, while communicating that one is not interested in taking a relationship any further. For example…

“Would you like to go for drinks on Thursday night?”

“Oh, darn it. I have to visit my grandmother on Thursday. My schedule is really busy right now. I barely have time for anything.”

This is clearcut “no, and never” answer. Don’t keep asking!

“Would you like to go for drinks on Thursday night?”

“Oh, I wish I could but I already have plans with my grandmother! Are you available Friday or Saturday? I’d love to go then!”

This is a “yes” answer!

If someone is interested in dating you, they will move Heaven and Earth to make it happen. If someone seems chronically “busy” - it’s because she is trying to tell you to buzz off.
Men have a hard time taking a hint not because we are full of ourselves, but because we don’t speak the indirect language of women. What you wrote here is very helpful. I am one of the least arrogant people you’ll ever meet (yeah that sounded arrogant). But I didn’t fully understand the stuff you wrote until well after college.

Some boys grow up in situations in which they are out of the loop with culture. For me, growing up as an only child, with a Korean family setting, but in America, and being isolated from extended family, has put me out of the loop. I remember not fully fitting in with whites, and not fully fitting in with Koreans because, among other things, I didn’t dress and talk like them, and I also liked hockey. t didn’t help that my parents don’t have many friendships, and didn’t give good advice on dating. Neither does my dad value friendship that highly–my dad has always been a work-first guy. My dad would always say that once I find a job, the women will come. That never happened.
 
Thank you for reminding me that women don’t want to be hit on, and that women want men who are interested in learning about their lives.

However, this only works if you know you’ll see them again. What if it’s a situation in which you’re not sure you’ll see them again?

I’m 33 and have little time to spare. (You can call me young all you want; the fact remains, I’ll be 35 soon and 40 soon after that so I gotta start cracking. Plus in Korean culture I’ll be 36 next Lunar New Year, so I am overdue for marriage.) So that is why I am exploring all possibilities, including approaching total strangers.
It seems as though you want some kind of guarantee before you even bother talking to a woman. That isn’t the way things work, if you really want a relationship. Anytime you approach a woman, you don’t know whether she is single or not, or whether she will be interested in you or not. You have to put in the effort, and yes, the time. That is how dating works. I think if you want to put in as little time as possible, you should consider online dating instead. Then, you can put your specifications out there, and you know other women are there for the same reason. In real life, though, these things just take more time. And if you focus more on a woman’s potential as a mate right off, instead of who she is, if she’s a woman worth pursuing in the first place, that will turn her off.

I agree that 33 isn’t “young” necessarily (I am actually younger than you are) but you do have being male on your side. No ticking clock. But I think you’ll have a lot more luck with women if you don’t get ahead of yourself and just get to know people, and really value conversations for what they are instead of where you’d like them to lead. Women can sense desperation very easily. Dating takes effort and work, and humility, and if you don’t have the time for such things, then I don’t think you’re ready to date anyone at all.
 
Thank you for reminding me that women don’t want to be hit on, and that women want men who are interested in learning about their lives.

However, this only works if you know you’ll see them again. What if it’s a situation in which you’re not sure you’ll see them again?

I’m 33 and have little time to spare. (You can call me young all you want; the fact remains, I’ll be 35 soon and 40 soon after that so I gotta start cracking. Plus in Korean culture I’ll be 36 next Lunar New Year, so I am overdue for marriage.) So that is why I am exploring all possibilities, including approaching total strangers.

Men have a hard time taking a hint not because we are full of ourselves, but because we don’t speak the indirect language of women. What you wrote here is very helpful. I am one of the least arrogant people you’ll ever meet (yeah that sounded arrogant). But I didn’t fully understand the stuff you wrote until well after college.

Some boys grow up in situations in which they are out of the loop with culture. For me, growing up as an only child, with a Korean family setting, but in America, and being isolated from extended family, has put me out of the loop. I remember not fully fitting in with whites, and not fully fitting in with Koreans because, among other things, I didn’t dress and talk like them, and I also liked hockey. t didn’t help that my parents don’t have many friendships, and didn’t give good advice on dating. Neither does my dad value friendship that highly–my dad has always been a work-first guy. My dad would always say that once I find a job, the women will come. That never happened.
I would second that about different communication. Men communicate in many cases quite literally-it isn’t a case of being “full of oneself” 🤷
 
I agree that 33 isn’t “young” necessarily (I am actually younger than you are) but you do have being male on your side. No ticking clock. But I think you’ll have a lot more luck with women if you don’t get ahead of yourself and just get to know people, and really value conversations for what they are instead of where you’d like them to lead. Women can sense desperation very easily. Dating takes effort and work, and humility, and if you don’t have the time for such things, then I don’t think you’re ready to date anyone at all.
I also wonder if God has closed the door on me.
 
I don’t know if YOU’VE noticed this, but many men have a hard time taking a hint.
Umm, many men ARE oblivious to the hints. Which is why this thread was created by the OP, asking why women arent more direct. 🤷

Dont forget about those womwn who give a clear “Yes” though, or will be the ones to initiate or suggest something datelike, and then will change their minds at the last second for whatever reason (most likely they never intended to do what they suggested). So for these, whats with the games? I find that kind of strange.
 
I’m 33 and have little time to spare. (You can call me young all you want; the fact remains, I’ll be 35 soon and 40 soon after that so I gotta start cracking. Plus in Korean culture I’ll be 36 next Lunar New Year, so I am overdue for marriage.) So that is why I am exploring all possibilities, including approaching total strangers.

I**f you are living in a major American city and are a guy and a professional with an advanced degree, 33 is not old. That is right around the age when a lot of women in large cities start getting very serious. They might, for instance, bail on a much-loved long term boyfriend at that point if the long term boyfriend wasn’t interesting in moving forward to marriage and family.

There’s also the issue that you may look substantially younger than your age, particularly to white women. You may find that your options actually improve as you look a little less boyish. **

Some boys grow up in situations in which they are out of the loop with culture. For me, growing up as an only child, with a Korean family setting, but in America, and being isolated from extended family, has put me out of the loop. I remember not fully fitting in with whites, and not fully fitting in with Koreans because, among other things, I didn’t dress and talk like them, and I also liked hockey. t didn’t help that my parents don’t have many friendships, and didn’t give good advice on dating. Neither does my dad value friendship that highly–my dad has always been a work-first guy. My dad would always say that once I find a job, the women will come. That never happened.
I think a lot of us were more or less raised by wolves, dating etiquette-wise. There’s nothing unusual about that. Just knowing that you have something to learn is actually a major step forward.

Best wishes!
 
Umm, many men ARE oblivious to the hints. Which is why this thread was created by the OP, asking why women arent more direct. 🤷

Dont forget about those womwn who give a clear “Yes” though, or will be the ones to initiate or suggest something datelike, and then will change their minds at the last second for whatever reason (most likely they never intended to do what they suggested). So for these, whats with the games? I find that kind of strange.
It’s terrible manners, but presumably the person felt cornered or pressured when they got the invitation and figured it was easier to say yes and then cancel later/pull a no show. People can also be very flaky this days when they get a “subsequent invitation” that is more appealing.

On the other hand, it’s also possible that the woman had some sort of health or family emergency she figured would make be unappealing to you if she explained it in frank detail. “I couldn’t go out because I needed to stay near the toilet” or “my sister was threatening to kill herself…again” might be things that she prefers to keep to herself.

So, maybe give it one more try if you really like the person? Maybe in a month?
 
Update: Yep. I texted her that I wasn’t sure if she was in a relationship but I’d like to see her again. She said she was in a long-term relationship but it was nice to meet me.

However, I asked why she didn’t mention it earlier. She said she thought I was interested in talking about racing more, and that once I mentioned yogurt she was taken aback and didn’t know what to say. She said she is so friendly that she thinks friends first.

Ladies, please understand. Unless it’s for a business purpose, men don’t take the courage to approach and talk to women they don’t know so they can enter the just-be-friends zone!!
Gee, CL, I don’t want women I approach to think I’m hitting on them. :nope:

Especially since some of them don’t seem to know what a male wedding ring is…:doh2:
 
I presume you wear your ring, so that’s how you mention your husband.

I’ve thought about talking to women just socially. Part of it is my lack of trust in letting things just happen. I feel like if I let go of the romantic issue, then the romantic issue will let go of me.
Practice, my friend, practice.
 
I also wonder if God has closed the door on me.
Why? He gave you a set of tools and you aren’t done using them yet. Perhaps you need to narrow down your search, zoom in, cast your net where the fish are.

But as far not having the patience for stuff goes, you may need a holiday, some time off from women. It’s okay to take some. Kinda like a job, you need to let go from time to time, think about something else.
 
Umm, many men ARE oblivious to the hints.
Yeah, but so are women. Subtle hints are always clearer to the person dropping them than the person supposed to pick them up.
If you are living in a major American city and are a guy and a professional with an advanced degree, 33 is not old. That is right around the age when a lot of women in large cities start getting very serious. They might, for instance, bail on a much-loved long term boyfriend at that point if the long term boyfriend wasn’t interesting in moving forward to marriage and family.
Uhm. Women in that particular situation aren’t the best relationship material.

Nice catch, the youthful look thing.
 
I’ve definitely been called my fair share of things for saying “I’m not interested”! As I think have many women. Especially in a public setting I’m probably more likely to demur so I don’t end up in a scene, or dealing with a guy who’s now aggressive.

Then again, I might also point out that displaying non-interest too early can also get a negative reaction. Pointing out that you’re unavailable right away is likely to get you called stuck-up. (“What, think you’re so pretty every guy wants you?”)
 
depressing thread. 😦
Why?

Often my threads are a little inflammatory, but I really appreciate being able to see why women aren’t so upfront. I didn’t grow up with sisters (only child), in fact I just had a date for the first time in years so I don’t get much time talking with women and entering their world. So at least this thread has helped.
 
Why?

Often my threads are a little inflammatory, but I really appreciate being able to see why women aren’t so upfront. I didn’t grow up with sisters (only child), in fact I just had a date for the first time in years so I don’t get much time talking with women and entering their world. So at least this thread has helped.
You’re ok Estevao, its nothing that you have done specifically and its not that anyone’s posts were particularly upsetting, its just the fact that there is so much misunderstanding between the sexes, speaking as a single woman, it seems pretty hopeless and depressing.

Also, there were some comments peppered within this thread that were kind of harsh and were generalizing. I realize people do this, and I am guilty of it as well, it just hurts to read it, even if I don’t think I’m one of those they are kind of putting down.

None-the-less, I do enjoy reading and appreciate the discussions here at CAF that the singles often start.

I probably should not have posted my comment… emotional knee-jerk reaction, I guess.
 
Why?

Often my threads are a little inflammatory, but I really appreciate being able to see why women aren’t so upfront. I didn’t grow up with sisters (only child), in fact I just had a date for the first time in years so I don’t get much time talking with women and entering their world. So at least this thread has helped.
It’s a little depressing though how many women have cited men being aggressive as a reason to not say no directly, though…
 
Why?

… I didn’t grow up with sisters,…
I can relate to this… I have no brothers. No uncles. A few male cousins, but hardly ever saw them growing up, and when I did, they were not at all talkative. It doesn’t help in understanding the other gender. I totally get that. I had male friends at school, but most of them ended up being homosexuals, so I’m not sure if that changes anything or not, but I would assume it does.
 
I can relate to this… I have no brothers. No uncles. A few male cousins, but hardly ever saw them growing up, and when I did, they were not at all talkative. It doesn’t help in understanding the other gender. I totally get that. I had male friends at school, but most of them ended up being homosexuals, so I’m not sure if that changes anything or not, but I would assume it does.
I wonder if the marriage crisis is being aggravated by couples having less children.
 
I’m sure you don’t mean it this way, but this was a kind of women-blamey misogynist way of putting the question.

Placating men can often a rational choice: a form of self-defence to protect against setting off an aggressor.

By way of illustration, on Thursday night, I was chatting with a friend at a pub, outside (because she smokes), when a drunk man shambled up to us. “I was thinking the exact same thing,” he hiccuped. As we’d been discussing her brother’s 30’s birthday party, we informed him that this was probably unlikely. But we politely endured him as he dominated our conversation, insisted on hugging me, and talked too long (which was any time at all) about his obsession with my friend’s hair. I escaped inside, and my friend followed a few moments later. The guy had asked for her phone number, and she had declined, informing him that she was married and, by the way, her husband was at the bar. “Why did I say that? I wouldn’t have been interested in him even if I weren’t married,” she told me. “Being married was, like, the sixth most pressing reason you weren’t into him,” I said (though probably less coherently). We later agreed she had said this because aggressive men are more likely to defer to another man’s domain than to accept a woman’s autonomous rejection of him. It’s just automatic, as a woman, to do that kind of thing.

Last Saturday, I experienced a similar thing when I went for a run round my corner of Birmingham. It was early on a weekend morning, and the streets that had been full of more-or-less blotto pedestrians the night before were now quiet. When I paused outside a newsagents to stretch, a man sitting at a bus stop over the street from me began yelling obscene comments about my body, (running shorts are apparently a temptation to some. I don’t care if I look immodest in this particular situation). By pure chance, a (platonic, male) friend of mine came out of the newsagents. And because I hugged him (even a 'I’m kind of gross because of running but it’s nice to see you" sort of hug), the guy over the road shut up. The apparent “boyfriend” was enough to make the guy stop being disgusting - but not the fact that he was being obscene, itself.

These are actually forms of male aggression that I think only women see (and not even all women, probably – or at least who may not see it as aggression). But even when men are afforded a front seat to harassment, they don’t always have the correct vantage point for recognising the subtlety of its operation. Four years or so ago, I was sitting in a pub in Oxford with a male friend. Another young woman was alone at the bar when an older man scooted up next to her. He was out of it, rather aggressive, and sitting too close, but she smiled curtly at his ramblings and laughed softly at his jokes as she patiently finished her drink. “Why is she humouring him?” my friend asked me. “You would never do that.” I was too embarrassed to say the two things I immediately wanted to say: “Because he looks scary” and “I do it all the time.”

We have to recognise that sometimes for women, placating men like this is a rational choice, a form of self-defence to protect against setting off an aggressor. But to male bystanders, it often looks like a warm welcome, if not a confusing rejection-non-rejection, and that helps to shift blame in the public eye from the harasser and onto his target, who’s failed to respond with the type of masculine bravado that men more easily recognise.

Louis C.K., who is adorable, and who has always recognized pervasive male violence against women in his stand-up — spelled out how this works in an episode of Louie (thank you, anonymous American friend of mine), where he recalls watching a man and a woman walking together out on a date. “He goes to kiss her, and she does an amazing thing that women somehow learn how to do — she hugged him very warmly. Men think this is affection, but what this is is a boxing manoeuvre.” Women “are better at rejecting us than we are,” C.K. said. “They have the skills to reject men in the way that we can then not kill them.”

Now I am NOT saying that all men are particularly aggressive, or anything like that at all. I’m just trying to flag up that on some occasions, women don’t like to say a straightforward “no” because the reaction of a man to that straightforward “no” might not be a straightforward “Oh, ok.” This is one of those moments when, were I remotely interested in Twitter, the hashtag #YesAllWomen might need an outing. As a victim of sexual assault once upon a time I feel I’m in a reasonable place to testify to this.

It is most certainly not because “woman are so full of themselves”.
👍👍👍👍👍👍
 
depressing thread. 😦
I guess it is potentially depressing, as it is depressing to read most contemporary accounts of dating and singles.

In my parents day, an unmarried person was usually available for dating. Manners were mostly known and practiced. The " rules" were not all in black and white but were much clearer, even to those who broke the rules.

But now you cannot assume anyone is single, available, interested, courteous, principled.

Also, so many views expressed here, and elsewhere, presume “rules” that not all of us are privy to, nor interested in: “must have sex on the first, no second, no-the third date…did I get this right?”
 
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