Why can't women simply say "I'm not interested." to men?

[Xantippe]

I guess it is potentially depressing, as it is depressing to read most contemporary accounts of dating and singles.

In my parents day, an unmarried person was usually available for dating. Manners were mostly known and practiced. The " rules" were not all in black and white but were much clearer, even to those who broke the rules.

But now you cannot assume anyone is single, available, interested, courteous, principled.

Also, so many views expressed here, and elsewhere, presume “rules” that not all of us are privy to, nor interested in: “must have sex on the first, no second, no-the third date…did I get this right?”

I believe the current secular “rule” is something like third date.

Come to think of it, one of the problems with the “test drive” model is that a lot of cars that eventually perform pretty well barely get off the lot on their first outing, so the first drive or dozen drives doesn’t really do justice to their potential.

 

[Auntie_A]

I believe the current secular “rule” is something like third date.

Come to think of it, one of the problems with the “test drive” model is that a lot of cars that eventually perform pretty well barely get off the lot on their first outing, so the first drive or dozen drives doesn’t really do justice to their potential.

The problem, of course, in treating people like cars, is that people are trying out each other for races, thrills, and tricks, and not looking at things like reliability, gas mileage, and longevity. It makes humans begin to break down and crash a lot, if I may carry out the metaphor.

But back to the thread topic, I’m not sure women or men can simply state " not interested" for a multitude of reasons, including how complicated the whole scene is. Maybe the " go-between" or Yente idea is good for improving communication in a courtship?

 

[Faxero]

Males were made by God to be the dominant gender, and so we use dominance in everyday language, showing God’s might.

Woman were made by God to be the submissive gender, and so their principal speaking styles reflect God’s tenderness.

This article addresses common misunderstandings between male and female styles of communication.

:coffeeread: austincc.edu/colangelo/1318/woodgender.htm

According to the article, we males communicate to establish prestige, while woman communicate to establish emotional connections.

Men speak *abstractly *while woman speak concretely.

Woman use suggestive language, carefully phasing their sentences in order to cultivate colorful conversations and connections with others.

Men use instrumental language, speaking in “general terms that are removed from concrete experiences and** distanced from personal feelings**.”

In other words, we men are emotionally disconnected from others in everyday speaking while woman strive to become emotionally connected with others in everyday speaking.

Hence why we men can’t understand you woman and you women in turn can’t understand us. :dts:

Are woman “full of themselves”? Yes, they are, and Men are also full of ourselves. Human nature has indeed been tainted ever since the fall. Since we are tainted, the natural qualities of both male and female genders would assume unnatural qualities.

Ever since we have been tainted with sin, Men use dominance to murder and control others, while woman use their tenderness to ensnare the minds of the unwary.

But dominance and submissiveness in their purest, natural, SINLESS forms, are not bad at all!

 

[Xantippe]

But back to the thread topic, I’m not sure women or men can simply state " not interested" for a multitude of reasons, including how complicated the whole scene is. Maybe the " go-between" or Yente idea is good for improving communication in a courtship?

I think it’s unfair to ask people to answer questions that haven’t been asked.

So, when a guy asks “Want to come with me to the monster truck rally Friday night?” the answer to that question does largely reflect how the woman feels about him, but on the surface level, the reply is concerning whether or not she wants to go to that event at that particular time. If the woman replies, “No, I’m not interested in you,” it’s a rude non sequitur, because that wasn’t the question that was being asked.

If he asks, “Are you interested in me?” then, yeah, “No, I’m not interested in you?” is a reasonable answer, as is “No, let’s just be friends!”

But presumably there is often a grey area where the woman is open to becoming interested, but isn’t interested yet. That grey area is why it’s a good idea to avoid pouncing with too direct questions about her feelings or declarations of undying love too soon, because the idea is to give the woman’s feelings time to develop without pulling them up by the roots and examining them too soon. That procedure is likely to kill whatever feelings were starting to grow.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Males were made by God to be the dominant gender, and so we use dominance in everyday language, showing God’s might.

Woman were made by God to be the submissive gender, and so their principal speaking styles reflect God’s tenderness.

This article addresses common misunderstandings between male and female styles of communication.

:coffeeread: austincc.edu/colangelo/1318/woodgender.htm

According to the article, we males communicate to establish prestige, while woman communicate to establish emotional connections.

Men speak *abstractly *while woman speak concretely.

Woman use suggestive language, carefully phasing their sentences in order to cultivate colorful conversations and connections with others.

Men use instrumental language, speaking in “general terms that are removed from concrete experiences and** distanced from personal feelings**.”

In other words, we men are emotionally disconnected from others in everyday speaking while woman strive to become emotionally connected with others in everyday speaking.

Hence why we men can’t understand you woman and you women in turn can’t understand us. :dts:

Are woman “full of themselves”? Yes, they are, and Men are also full of ourselves. Human nature has indeed been tainted ever since the fall. Since we are tainted, the natural qualities of both male and female genders would assume unnatural qualities.

Ever since we have been tainted with sin, Men use dominance to murder and control others, while woman use their tenderness to ensnare the minds of the unwary.

But dominance and submissiveness in their purest, natural, SINLESS forms, are not bad at all!

I do not think at all that dominance is the word you are looking for. That speaks to me of sinful nature.** It does NOT glorify God.** Jesus never expressed dominance- not even when they were nailing Him to a cross. Leadership, yes. Dominance, no way. Dominance is "lording it over " someone. Jesus did not mean for us to “lord it over” people, in fact in Matthew 20:25 said:

“You know that the rulers of the Gentiles** lord it over them,** and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”’

Leadership, on the other hand, is I think what Jesus wants. Lead people to Christ. Be solid. Be firm. Be unwavering… that is a man’s strength, besides being protective and providing for that of what needs and should be protected and provided for.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

The problem, of course, in treating people like cars, is that people are trying out each other for races, thrills, and tricks, and not looking at things like reliability, gas mileage, and longevity. It makes humans begin to break down and crash a lot, if I may carry out the metaphor.

But back to the thread topic, I’m not sure women or men can simply state " not interested" for a multitude of reasons, including how complicated the whole scene is. Maybe the " go-between" or Yente idea is good for improving communication in a courtship?

I don’t mean to pick, but how does looking at things such as “reliability, gas mileage, and longevity” is not treating a person like a car, carrying on the metaphor you used? I am disabled, I have medical problems… I don’t know if I have “longevity”… I could die two years from now or fifty, I don’t know… I certainly don’ t have reliability, at least in the physical sense- when I’m well enough, absolutely try my best to be. Does this mean I’m not worth anything then? What I"m trying to say is that with those things you mentioned, its still the mentality of ‘treating people like cars’. Only you put different emphasis on better traits to go on than worse.

How about just accepting people as people. ? Why do we have to ‘look for the best’ and the rest can just eat my dust type mentality? Is this pleasing to Christ? I can’t reconcile that.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I think it’s unfair to ask people to answer questions that haven’t been asked.

So, when a guy asks “Want to come with me to the monster truck rally Friday night?” the answer to that question does largely reflect how the woman feels about him, but on the surface level, the reply is concerning whether or not she wants to go to that event at that particular time. If the woman replies, “No, I’m not interested in you,” it’s a rude non sequitur, because that wasn’t the question that was being asked.

If he asks, “Are you interested in me?” then, yeah, “No, I’m not interested in you?” is a reasonable answer, as is “No, let’s just be friends!”

But presumably there is often a grey area where the woman is open to becoming interested, but isn’t interested yet. That grey area is why it’s a good idea to avoid pouncing with too direct questions about her feelings or declarations of undying love too soon, because the idea is to give the woman’s feelings time to develop without pulling them up by the roots and examining them too soon. That procedure is likely to kill whatever feelings were starting to grow.

Yes!

 

[Thorns]

I think it’s unfair to ask people to answer questions that haven’t been asked.

So, when a guy asks “Want to come with me to the monster truck rally Friday night?” the answer to that question does largely reflect how the woman feels about him, but on the surface level, the reply is concerning whether or not she wants to go to that event at that particular time. If the woman replies, “No, I’m not interested in you,” it’s a rude non sequitur, because that wasn’t the question that was being asked.

I don’t think it’s unfair, I think it’s being direct and honest. It ends up saving time.

I have a friend who was talking to this girl once and was building up to ask her out. She obviously picked up on it and felt the vibes he was sending, so she stated to him that she wasn’t interested in him like that, before he even got the the point of officially asking her out. There’s no lead on and he doesn’t feel pressured to keep building anything up if he knows there’s no chance and there was no excuse. He respected that a lot and she didn’t have to say “I am not interested in you for X reason” either. Just simply an upfront decline.

Same friend, got to know someone at his job a little more and asked her out. She declined, stating that she “doesn’t go out with co-workers.” Ok, so he thought that was pretty direct and he could manage that, but it later turned out to be indirect / a lie / an excuse, because eventually she became involved in a serious relationship with a man at their job, obviously a co-worker… So it’s not that she was opposed to dating a co-worker, she was opposed to dating him. This approach to many men is taken as disrespect.

 

[Thorns]

Relationships should not be rushed, but for men on here I think the issue is romantic communication.

You’ve mentioned this at least a dozen times in this thread, but you’ve never elaborated as to what exactly “romantic communication” entails, as I’m sure there might be many lurkers and others who are wondering.

Is romantic communication unspoken body language? Is romantic communication asking someone out on a date? Is romantic communication flirting? Is romantic communication being direct and telling someone that you like them? Or is it none of these things? Please explain.

It’s much like people who say “The way to become rich is to be successful.” For many people, you have to explain to them first how to become successful and the steps to get there. Otherwise, such a statement has little meaning.

 

[Xantippe]

I don’t think it’s unfair, I think it’s being direct and honest. It ends up saving time.

I have a friend who was talking to this girl once and was building up to ask her out. She obviously picked up on it and felt the vibes he was sending, so she stated to him that she wasn’t interested in him like that, before he even got the the point of officially asking her out. There’s no lead on and he doesn’t feel pressured to keep building anything up if he knows there’s no chance and there was no excuse. He respected that a lot and she didn’t have to say “I am not interested in you for X reason” either. Just simply an upfront decline.

Same friend, got to know someone at his job a little more and asked her out. She declined, stating that she “doesn’t go out with co-workers.” Ok, so he thought that was pretty direct and he could manage that, but it later turned out to be indirect / a lie / an excuse, because eventually she became involved in a serious relationship with a man at their job, obviously a co-worker… So it’s not that she was opposed to dating a co-worker, she was opposed to dating him. This approach to many men is taken as disrespect.

With the second one, she could have changed her mind about dating co-workers between the time your friend asked and when she went out with the other coworker. It wasn’t like there was only a 15 minute gap between the two events.

Also, maybe the full answer was, “I don’t go out with co-workers unless I think it has long term potential.”

 

[CaliLobo]

"CaliLobo:

Yesterday I met a girl at a triathlon. (By the way, races are great environments because everyone looks and feels good!) I talked to her, the convo was above average, so I got her number. There was NO mention of a boyfriend.

Then later I look at her Facebook (come on, you guys do this too) and it says she has a boyfriend.

My question is, should I call her? Also, why didn’t she mention her boyfriend??? Being subtle about rejection is one thing, but why couldn’t she be honest and direct about crucial information like relationship status?

maryjk:

You met her at a race. Could it be that she was only interested in talking to you about the race? Or running?

Do you really think that women should start all conversations with, “Hi, my name is XXXX. And I have a boyfriend. If you are looking for a girl friend, look elsewhere. If you are looking for a fellow runner, I would like to met up with you. But don’t be surprised when I bring my boy friend. He likes to run too.”

Could it be that she didn’t know you were “flirting?” That you were looking for a girl friend? Could it be that she just thought you were being nice?

Don’t kid yourself, we can not pick up on the clue. Believe it or not, us women will often assume at first that you are just being nice or want to have a conversation. We don’t assume that talking to you is like some sort of weird pre-date “scout” out. It also doesn’t always cross our mind that we immediately need to mention our boyfriend. We’re just talking, right?

So I talked about this last night with my friend (who is married and has dated and slept with lots of women) and his friend (who has dated and slept with lots of women).
**
They both say the above statements by maryjk and WingsofEagles are false, and that women DO assume that a man is interested when they approach them.**

They said that the reason why she didn’t tell me she had a boyfriend is that she didn’t want me to know. By saying “Hey I’m not sure if you have a boyfriend but I’d like to see you again,” I made her feel guilty about it and she had to fess up.

**What I should’ve done was not mention it at all, and maybe I could’ve slept with her.

If this is true, this would then be another example of how women say one thing and mean another, often because of social pressures not to appear slutty.**

For example, women will often talk as if they are not interested in sex at all, but we know that is not true–this is just anti-slut defense kicking in. Women also talk as if they are not interested in dating a redhead, or a short man, or someone who’s not in the military, but they will fall for the right redhead, short man, or non-military if he comes along.

Women say one thing and mean another all the time. Could this girl from the race have been another example?

 

[DarkLight]

I don’t think it’s unfair, I think it’s being direct and honest. It ends up saving time.

I have a friend who was talking to this girl once and was building up to ask her out. She obviously picked up on it and felt the vibes he was sending, so she stated to him that she wasn’t interested in him like that, before he even got the the point of officially asking her out. There’s no lead on and he doesn’t feel pressured to keep building anything up if he knows there’s no chance and there was no excuse. He respected that a lot and she didn’t have to say “I am not interested in you for X reason” either. Just simply an upfront decline.

I have never had this happen. Far more common is when you say you’re not interested the guy responds with “Oh, well what’s wrong with me?” or even “What, you think you’re too good for me?”

 

[Peebo]

I guess some men just won’t accept a simple “not interested”…some men still think that females need to be dominated…just like some men who rape women because the woman “led him on till he couldn’t stop himself”…utter garbage…I’m a man and I’m darn sure if a female told me to stop I would get the hint pretty quick…it’s all about some men have that caveman mentality…men kill their wives…girlfriends…or perceived girlfriends because if they can’t have them…nobody else will…some females like to flirt also…it doesn’t take long to figure them out and leave them alone

 

[pensmama87]

So I talked about this last night with my friend (who is married and has dated and slept with lots of women) and his friend (who has dated and slept with lots of women).

Ugh. I’m not quoting your whole post because it was really hard to read the first time. So you have regrets now because you think you could have gotten away with using the poor girl even though she had a boyfriend? Wow.

I’m a woman and am not the way your friends say women are. Not that men like that would know, because I generally gave them a wide berth (and wasn’t likely to socialize in the types of places where they would go to pick up girls.)

You need to decide what your goal is. Is it to pick up chicks and hook up a lot, or is it to get married to someone who’s marriage-ready? You are highly unlikely to find a girl in both groups.

 

[Xantippe]

Ugh. I’m not quoting your whole post because it was really hard to read the first time. So you have regrets now because you think you could have gotten away with using the poor girl even though she had a boyfriend? Wow.

I’m a woman and am not the way your friends say women are. Not that men like that would know, because I generally gave them a wide berth (and wasn’t likely to socialize in the types of places where they would go to pick up girls.)

You need to decide what your goal is. Is it to pick up chicks and hook up a lot, or is it to get married to someone who’s marriage-ready? You are highly unlikely to find a girl in both groups.

Yes.

 

[Lorelei12]

So I talked about this last night with my friend (who is married and has dated and slept with lots of women) and his friend (who has dated and slept with lots of women).
**
They both say the above statements by maryjk and WingsofEagles are false, and that women DO assume that a man is interested when they approach them.**

They said that the reason why she didn’t tell me she had a boyfriend is that she didn’t want me to know. By saying “Hey I’m not sure if you have a boyfriend but I’d like to see you again,” I made her feel guilty about it and she had to fess up.

**What I should’ve done was not mention it at all, and maybe I could’ve slept with her.

If this is true, this would then be another example of how women say one thing and mean another, often because of social pressures not to appear slutty.**

For example, women will often talk as if they are not interested in sex at all, but we know that is not true–this is just anti-slut defense kicking in. Women also talk as if they are not interested in dating a redhead, or a short man, or someone who’s not in the military, but they will fall for the right redhead, short man, or non-military if he comes along.

Women say one thing and mean another all the time. Could this girl from the race have been another example?

I think you need to let this go and stop overanalyzing it. If she didn’t want you to know she had a boyfriend so that she could sleep with you, why do you suppose that she told you she was seeing someone when you talked to her? You think she felt guilty for not telling you in the first place, but wouldn’t have if she’d slept with you?

A lot of the time, things really are just how they look. You can drive yourself crazy trying to “figure out women”, or just be direct and honest and not assume all women are shady and trying to manipulate you somehow.

 

[Lorelei12]

Ugh. I’m not quoting your whole post because it was really hard to read the first time. So you have regrets now because you think you could have gotten away with using the poor girl even though she had a boyfriend? Wow.

I’m a woman and am not the way your friends say women are. Not that men like that would know, because I generally gave them a wide berth (and wasn’t likely to socialize in the types of places where they would go to pick up girls.)

You need to decide what your goal is. Is it to pick up chicks and hook up a lot, or is it to get married to someone who’s marriage-ready? You are highly unlikely to find a girl in both groups.

Yep, all of this.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

So I talked about this last night with my friend (who is married and has dated and slept with lots of women) and his friend (who has dated and slept with lots of women).
**
They both say the above statements by maryjk and WingsofEagles are false, and that women DO assume that a man is interested when they approach them.**

They said that the reason why she didn’t tell me she had a boyfriend is that she didn’t want me to know. By saying “Hey I’m not sure if you have a boyfriend but I’d like to see you again,” I made her feel guilty about it and she had to fess up.

**What I should’ve done was not mention it at all, and maybe I could’ve slept with her.

If this is true, this would then be another example of how women say one thing and mean another, often because of social pressures not to appear slutty.**

For example, women will often talk as if they are not interested in sex at all, but we know that is not true–this is just anti-slut defense kicking in. Women also talk as if they are not interested in dating a redhead, or a short man, or someone who’s not in the military, but they will fall for the right redhead, short man, or non-military if he comes along.

Women say one thing and mean another all the time. Could this girl from the race have been another example?

So is your goal now to sleep around? Men that have slept with lots of women usually live a certain kind of lifestyle. If a man approached me in a bar, I assume that he’s hitting on me. If he approaches me at a race, not necessarily. I also would question why you are going to believe your buddies who sleep around vs. two women. They are going on their OPINION and we are going on what actually goes on in our heads.

 

[underacloud]

So I talked about this last night with my friend (who is married and has dated and slept with lots of women) and his friend (who has dated and slept with lots of women).
**
They both say the above statements by maryjk and WingsofEagles are false, and that women DO assume that a man is interested when they approach them.**

They said that the reason why she didn’t tell me she had a boyfriend is that she didn’t want me to know. By saying “Hey I’m not sure if you have a boyfriend but I’d like to see you again,” I made her feel guilty about it and she had to fess up.

**What I should’ve done was not mention it at all, and maybe I could’ve slept with her.

If this is true, this would then be another example of how women say one thing and mean another, often because of social pressures not to appear slutty.**

For example, women will often talk as if they are not interested in sex at all, but we know that is not true–this is just anti-slut defense kicking in. Women also talk as if they are not interested in dating a redhead, or a short man, or someone who’s not in the military, but they will fall for the right redhead, short man, or non-military if he comes along.

Women say one thing and mean another all the time. Could this girl from the race have been another example?

If you want to sleep with lots of women, take the advice of these friends of yours (and online blogs on how to pick up women, etc.

If you want a wonderful marriage - a meaningful lifelong friendship and a fulfilling sexual relationship - take the advice of people here.

If you choose the former, which I hope you do not, please stop posting your questions here. None of us wants to help you pick up women and use them for sex. If you want our help in finding a wife, we are more than happy to offer advice based on Catholic principles and personal experience.

 

[Xantippe]

If you want to sleep with lots of women, take the advice of these friends of yours (and online blogs on how to pick up women, etc.

If you want a wonderful marriage - a meaningful lifelong friendship and a fulfilling sexual relationship - take the advice of people here.

Yes.