Why can't women simply say "I'm not interested." to men?

[AnneElizabeth]

Oh no, people said hi to her. Such harassment

Lol @ the pravda on the potomac. You’d get the same thing if you had a dude walking around with his shirt off. But nobody would call that “harassment”, we’d be supposed to think it was compliments…that is if it ever made it into the media, which it wouldn’t.

If you don’t want these kinds of reactions, don’t walk around bad neighborhood dressed “like that”. This is just sound advice, but some people think it’s a part of “patriarchal rape culture” and will start a new walk over it…

They weren’t just saying ‘hi’ to her. Would you tell a passer-by who is MALE that you said hello to him because he is beautiful? No, of course you wouldn’t (unless maybe you were gay) **Its sexual. ** Its not just a ‘hello’. Its a hit. Its an inquiry of sex, of having possible sexual relations… with a total stranger.
Did you think the lady in that video was dressed "like that" (immodest)? She looked to me to have normal clothes on. She is dressed modestly. She is not even behaving immodestly. She is just walking.

 

[Xantippe]

They weren’t just saying ‘hi’ to her. Would you tell a passer-by who is MALE that you said hello to him because he is beautiful? No, of course you wouldn’t (unless maybe you were gay) **Its sexual. ** Its not just a ‘hello’. Its a hit. Its an inquiry of sex, of having possible sexual relations… with a total stranger.

Did you think the lady in that video was dressed "like that" (immodest)?  She looked to me to have normal clothes on.   She is dressed modestly.   She is not even behaving immodestly.   She is just walking.

Yeah. Her t-shirt and jeans are a little tight, but she’s otherwise very business-like and unresponsive, just walking briskly down the street.

There is no good reason to follow a strange woman for five minutes if she isn’t obviously thrilled to make your acquaintance.

Yet another item for my, “don’t want to live in NYC” file.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

This is from Egypt, but still interesting…

Male actor dresses as woman to experience sexual harassment …

youtube.com/watch?v=LvNZt1T5rAQ

@ 1:46 - it shows what some of us were speaking about earlier in this thread.

Here’s another interview with Waleed Hammad about the project…

youtube.com/watch?v=iBulb1veTzs

 

[Estevao]

She has a passable figure and she’s wearing a black t-shirt and dark skinny jeans, form-fitting, but not ridiculously so. That’s not the equivalent of a guy walking around shirtless all day. (And I don’t think even then he’d get that kind of response, unless he was in prison.)

I’m pretty sure that her pretty face and nice figure are doing 85% of the work here. What could she be wearing that would get less notice, short of a burka?

That’s also not a bad neighborhood, as far as I can tell. (In a BAD neighborhood, there’s almost nobody on the street, there are bars on all shop windows, boarded up, burned out houses, etc.) It’s just the big city.

So skin tight clothes are normal and modest now I guess? Meh, this world is crazy…

If you watch long enough, you’ll see that one guy followed her for five minutes with no response from her.

Props to that man for taking the time to protect her from all those pigs by escorting her to her destination!

There’s already been some discussion on Dark Light’s thread (I think) where people were mentioning the fact that if anything, more traditionally modest dress inflames perverts.

I have not experienced modestly dressed women ever getting cat calls. Of course modestly dressed women may attract perverts like me who want a trad wife…

 

[runwaymodel]

So skin tight clothes are normal and modest now I guess? Meh, this world is crazy…

Props to that man for taking the time to protect her from all those pigs by escorting her to her destination!

I have not experienced modestly dressed women ever getting cat calls. Of course modestly dressed women may attract perverts like me who want a trad wife…

Really? She wasn’t wearing a skimpy mini dress. Just jeans and a T-shirt. Good Lord…this makes me so sad and upset. I guess we are not safe no matter what we wear because some guy somewhere will try to redirect the blame back to us. Ridiculous.
I don’t think many guys realize how scary it can be when a man approaches us on the street. If we engage him in conversation or say hi back then he may see that as interest and an invitation to keep going, and if we ignore him and go about our business the man will get upset and say something rude. Now, there are ways you can approach a woman if you are genuinely interested but do it tenderly. Be a gentleman.

Modestly dress women also get cat called. It happens to me on the way to church all the time. I don’t know what gives people that right…or to honk. It’s not a compliment at all.

 

[DarkLight]

Props to that man for taking the time to protect her from all those pigs by escorting her to her destination!

Did you even watch the video? He was clearly not simply walking beside her, unless escorting someone comes with repeated demands that they talk to you and pestering for contact information from someone who has shown every sign of not being interested.

I have not experienced modestly dressed women ever getting cat calls. Of course modestly dressed women may attract perverts like me who want a trad wife…

I’ve been harassed repeatedly in winter. During winter, nevermind what I’m wearing underneath, I have on a thick coat that runs from my neck down to mid-calves. And I still would get harassed multiple times a week walking out on the street. I have a chest, and there’s just nothing short of a wire frame around my body that’s going to really disguise that.

Also, no offense, but most men in my experience aren’t terribly good at noticing catcalls, and most women aren’t going to talk about them with someone who thinks modesty will fix the problem - we don’t want to have to defend our virtue simply because some men were pigs to us on the street.

 

[Estevao]

It was a joke. Obviously the dude wasn’t escorting her.

yea it must suck to be a woman sometimes…

But sorry that woman knew the reaction she wanted, that’s why she had herself filmed lol. I hope she has fun spending the money she gets from the youtube hits.

 

[DarkLight]

It was a joke. Obviously the dude wasn’t escorting her.

yea it must suck to be a woman sometimes…

But sorry that woman knew the reaction she wanted, that’s why she had herself filmed lol. I hope she has fun spending the money she gets from the youtube hits.

That’s a pretty big jump in logic there. Wanting other people to know the sort of reaction you get is different from wanting that reaction. And sometimes even knowing you’ll get a certain sort of reaction from something doesn’t mean you want that reaction. So I’ve found that skirts, even long skirts, garner more attention than pants - but that’s not why I wear skirts.

I know I get harassed more with nice makeup and a good skirt and blazer than I do in jeans and a t-shirt. But I still wear nicer clothes because I have a job to do and I want to look like a professional young woman. And I find it too much of a pain to wear men’s jeans and a baggy t-shirt every time I go outside to cut down on harassment.

I certainly don’t particularly like being bothered regularly on the street, but I’ve thought about keeping a journal of what happened and when just so I have something to show to people who don’t really see what’s happening.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

It was a joke. Obviously the dude wasn’t escorting her.

yea it must suck to be a woman sometimes…

But sorry that woman knew the reaction she wanted, that’s why she had herself filmed lol. I hope she has fun spending the money she gets from the youtube hits.

My husband allowed his surgical biopsy to be filmed. It was a teaching hospital and they wanted to use it for instructional purposes.

But I can assure you that he did not want to be in the operating room with an IV in his arm and a gas mask on his face as the doctors cut his chest open.

 

[Xantippe]

And back to the thread subject–that’s what “not interested” looks like. She’s making no eye contact, she’s just walking straight ahead, minding her own business, and she is giving those guys absolutely no verbal or body language encouragement.

While the clothing is form-fitting, it also provides very good coverage (she couldn’t be more covered in conventional dress without long sleeves) and the dark colors suggest (to me, at least) that she is all business, just as her facial expression and her body language indicate.

To a reasonable viewer, nothing about this woman says, “I’d love to meet some strange men today!!!”

I also suspect that a knee-length or longer skirt would generate an even stronger response.

(I have to add that if you know somebody socially, “not interested” is going to be less clear, because there’s going to be more of an effort to preserve social niceties and your feelings.)

 

[Sarcelle]

So skin tight clothes are normal and modest now I guess? Meh, this world is crazy…

Props to that man for taking the time to protect her from all those pigs by escorting her to her destination!

I have not experienced modestly dressed women ever getting cat calls. Of course modestly dressed women may attract perverts like me who want a trad wife…

I mentioned before that my cousin who attends the EF mass in a church close to her home gets harassed constantly. She wears clothing suitable to the EF mass complete with mantilla or headscarf depending on the weather. She still gets harassed. In fact she gets more harassed when she is wearing modest clothing than when she is wearing jeans.

No, the men who are harassing her are not shouting compliments. The phrase, “Lay down and spread your legs” does not count as a compliment.

 

[Siegehammer]

It’s not important what the woman in the video was wearing or how attractive she is. Or what any woman wears or how attractive she appears, for that matter. All women should be able to access public spaces without being harassed. Period.

As long as the focus stays on what women wear or their perceived attractiveness, certain kinds of men will continue to harass women they think they can get away with harassing. The public conversation needs to shift away from the women in these instances and more towards, “Dude, stop asking like a jerk and leave her alone.”

 

[AnneElizabeth]

…

I have not experienced modestly dressed women ever getting cat calls. Of course modestly dressed women may attract perverts like me who want a trad wife…

Respectively, that’s because if you as a man are around the lady, the catcallers don’t do it. Its only when woman are alone (and vulnerable) that they do this.

…but I have a suspicion that you already know this. Just making it clear in case you don’t understand.

 

[Estevao]

Hey I’m not saying that women aren’t addressed in terrible manners quite often, but I’m saying that this video isn’t exactly an egregious example of it. Instead what you have are “hi, hey, how are you? Hey beautiful!”, and that’s just what made the cut. If you have a video saying something more disgusting, that would be a better piece.

And this video is being used by feminists to berate men for being men and trying to attract women. Apparently men need to learn that they should only speak when spoken to.

It’s just like this video that went viral in Canada soon after a Muslim Jihadist committed a terrorist attack, where two people acted out a scene at a bus stop where some White dude berated a dude dressed as a Muslim for being a terrorist, and the public around them roundly and publicly rejected this, and one of them even started a fight with the White dude.

But of course, this isn’t going to stop the media/colleges/public school system from teaching the naive youngsters that Canada is a racist country and white people need to do penance for the “white privilege” they have. Just like the feminists are trying to get men to do penance for being men and trying to attract women.

But the problem is they aren’t using any real evidence of “islamophobia” or sexism. Leftists need to find better propaganda.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Hey I’m not saying that women aren’t addressed in terrible manners quite often, but I’m saying that this video isn’t exactly an egregious example of it. Instead what you have are “hi, hey, how are you? Hey beautiful!”, and that’s just what made the cut. If you have a video saying something more disgusting, that would be a better piece.

And this video is being used by feminists to berate men for being men and trying to attract women. Apparently men need to learn that they should only speak when spoken to.

It’s just like this video that went viral in Canada soon after a Muslim Jihadist committed a terrorist attack, where two people acted out a scene at a bus stop where some White dude berated a dude dressed as a Muslim for being a terrorist, and the public around them roundly and publicly rejected this, and one of them even started a fight with the White dude.

But of course, this isn’t going to stop the media/colleges/public school system from teaching the naive youngsters that Canada is a racist country and white people need to do penance for the “white privilege” they have. Just like the feminists are trying to get men to do penance for being men and trying to attract women.

But the problem is they aren’t using any real evidence of “islamophobia” or sexism. Leftists need to find better propaganda.

I can’t believe you’re still single

 

[Xantippe]

Hey I’m not saying that women aren’t addressed in terrible manners quite often, but I’m saying that this video isn’t exactly an egregious example of it. Instead what you have are “hi, hey, how are you? Hey beautiful!”, and that’s just what made the cut. If you have a video saying something more disgusting, that would be a better piece.

**Think back to high school. If, as you walked down the hall every day, people said, “hey smarty!”, “hey, brainiac!”, “hey! Einstein!” and they did so dozens of times every day and that was the only interaction they had with you, wouldn’t you eventually start dreading going to school? Those are technically compliments, but it doesn’t feel like a compliment when you hear the same thing over and over again everywhere you go.

Also, how about the five minutes of the guy following her around? That could easily be the setup to sexual assault or longterm stalking–he could be trying to figure out where she lives, where she works, etc.**

And this video is being used by feminists to berate men for being men and trying to attract women. Apparently men need to learn that they should only speak when spoken to.

**1. In traditional etiquette, men would not address women they were not acquainted with (and vice versa). Hence, getting an introduction to someone you wanted to meet and talk to was a major task. (Hey, you can see this in Jane Austen! You should totally read Jane Austen!)

1. Are the men attracting the woman? Do you think that street catcalls are an effective method of meeting a serious girlfriend, wife, or (heck) one night stand? Do you think that after 3 minutes of following, another 2 will do the job?
2. Men aren’t being berated for trying to attract women. They are being berated for being rude, stupid and selfish and making public streets feel unsafe to women who are minding their own business and would like other people to learn to do the same.**

It’s just like this video that went viral in Canada soon after a Muslim Jihadist committed a terrorist attack, where two people acted out a scene at a bus stop where some White dude berated a dude dressed as a Muslim for being a terrorist, and the public around them roundly and publicly rejected this, and one of them even started a fight with the White dude.

But of course, this isn’t going to stop the media/colleges/public school system from teaching the naive youngsters that Canada is a racist country and white people need to do penance for the “white privilege” they have. Just like the feminists are trying to get men to do penance for being men and trying to attract women.

**???

Not following your line of logic.

Are you seriously defending the moral right of men to yell stuff at women they don’t know and to follow those women around?

Also, this might be “trying to attract women,” but it isn’t “attracting women.” I bet there isn’t a single CAFer who met his wife by catcalling her on the street.

This doesn’t attract women (unless it’s attention they get once in a blue moon). It threatens and annoys the women who get most of it. You might as well try to attract women by sending them bags of rotting garbage.
**

But the problem is they aren’t using any real evidence of “islamophobia” or sexism. Leftists need to find better propaganda.

Tell me if I’m following your logic:

1. There isn’t such a thing as street harassment of women. It’s a figment of feminists’ imaginations (despite the fact that several CAF women complain of it).
2. It’s totally OK to engage in street harassment practices.

 

[petitfleur]

First of all a feminist is any person who believes men and women should have equal rights. They don’t believe women are better, and aknoedge men and women are different. I am pretty sure most people here believe that.
You are on a Catholic forum. Do you know the Catholic Church respects the dignity of all people. All people were created by God, that God loves all individuals, and therefore deserve to be treated with respect and dignity no matter what they look like, how they are dressed, race, ethnicity, and even gay people should be treated with respect. I also hope you understand that treating women as a means for your own happiness without concearned for their own happiness is what they mean by “objectifying women”. It is morally wrong.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Anyone remember that 90’s song ‘No Scrubs’?

I feel like we have a chorus of ladies singing that song in unison while one guy tries to catcall over us. Sorry Estevao, but we don’t want no scrub

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Oh no, people said hi to her. Such harassment

Lol @ the pravda on the potomac. You’d get the same thing if you had a dude walking around with his shirt off. But nobody would call that “harassment”, we’d be supposed to think it was compliments…that is if it ever made it into the media, which it wouldn’t.

If you don’t want these kinds of reactions, don’t walk around bad neighborhood dressed “like that”. This is just sound advice, but some people think it’s a part of “patriarchal rape culture” and will start a new walk over it…

Expecting to pick up a woman by behaving like this is just stupid. If someone followed me like she was followed, I would probably walk into the nearest business and call the police on my cell phone.

And for what it’s worth, I get the most harassment in a business suit. There is a subset of men out there that takes a lot of joy in turning visibly off-limits women into objects. It’s frightening and humiliating and they know it-that’s why they do it. Women in suits, pregnant women, and even nuns in habits are often singled out for a special kind of sexual harassment.

 

[Jay82]

Hey I’m not saying that women aren’t addressed in terrible manners quite often, but I’m saying that this video isn’t exactly an egregious example of it. Instead what you have are “hi, hey, how are you? Hey beautiful!”, and that’s just what made the cut. If you have a video saying something more disgusting, that would be a better piece.

I think you are missing the point. Posting a video or description of egregious events makes it clear, but it also makes people think this stuff doesn’t happen often. The fact is that some men say or do things in subtle or seemingly innocent ways to make women uncomfortable or objectify them in every day situations. Recognizing the little things is what is more important since they happen so much more frequently.

This video is a perfect example of how actions/comments will make a woman feel uncomfortable while much of it will generally go unnoticed. Men that are saying ‘Hey baby’ or ‘Hey Beautiful’ as they eye her up and down or stare…well it isn’t meant as a real compliment or in an innocent manner. It has innuendo in it and the motives are not pure by any means. These men are objectifying the woman in the video.