Why Catholic ?

[retrovert]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

 

[diggnitty]

The difference is what you know to be true.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

Only a small handful of protestants will get to heaven, and not because they are protestant, but in spite of it. Our Lord said “the way is narrow” that leads to heaven. If it is that hard while having access to the sacraments, then it is an extreme rarity that someone who doesn’t have that access to pass through the pearly gates. Read my next post for clarification.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Baltimore Catechism on Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus:

1. Q. Are all bound to belong to the Church?
   A. All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it, cannot be saved.

Anyone who knows the Catholic religion to be the true religion and will not embrace it cannot enter into Heaven. If one not a Catholic doubts whether the church to which he belongs is the true Church, he must settle his doubt, seek the true Church, and enter it; for if he continues to live in doubt, he becomes like the one who knows the true Church and is deterred by worldly considerations from entering it.

In like manner one who, doubting, fears to examine the religion he professes lest he should discover its falsity and be convinced of the truth of the Catholic faith, cannot be saved.

Suppose, however, that there is a non-Catholic who firmly believes that the church to which he belongs is the true Church, and who has never – even in the past – had the slightest doubt of that fact – what will become of him?

If he was validly baptized and never committed a mortal sin, he will be saved; because, believing himself a member of the true Church, he was doing all he could to serve God according to his knowledge and the dictates of his conscience. But if ever he committed a mortal sin, his salvation would be very much more difficult. A mortal sin once committed remains on the soul till it is forgiven. Now, how could his mortal sin be forgiven? Not in the Sacrament of Penance, for the Protestant does not go to confession; and if he does, his minister – not being a true priest – has no power to forgive sins. Does he know that without confession it requires an act of perfect contrition to blot out mortal sin, and can he easily make such an act? What we call contrition is often only imperfect contrition – that is, sorrow for our sins because we fear their punishment in Hell or dread the loss of Heaven. If a Catholic – with all the instruction he has received about how to make an act of perfect contrition and all the practice he has had in making such acts – might find it difficult to make an act of perfect contrition after having committed a mortal sin, how much difficulty will not a Protestant have in making an act of perfect contrition, who does not know about this requirement and who has not been taught to make continued acts of perfect contrition all his life. It is to be feared either he would not know of this necessary means of regaining God’s friendship, or he would be unable to elicit the necessary act of perfect contrition, and thus the mortal sin would remain upon his soul and he would die an enemy of God.

If, then, we found a Protestant who never committed a mortal sin after Baptism, and who never had the slightest doubt about the truth of his religion, that person would be saved; because, being baptized, he is a member of the Church, and being free from mortal sin he is a friend of God and could not in justice be condemned to Hell. Such a person would attend Mass and receive the Sacraments if he knew the Catholic Church to be the only true Church.

I am giving you an example, however, that is rarely found, except in the case of infants or very small children baptized in Protestant sects. All infants rightly baptized by anyone are really children of the Church, no matter what religion their parents may profess. Indeed, all persons who are baptized are children of the Church; but those among them who deny its teaching, reject its Sacraments, and refuse to submit to its lawful pastors, are rebellious children known as heretics.

I said I gave you an example that can scarcely be found, namely, of a person not a Catholic, who really never doubted the truth of his religion, and who, moreover, never committed during his whole life a mortal sin. There are so few such persons that we can practically say for all those who are not visibly members of the Catholic Church, believing its doctrines, receiving its Sacraments, and being governed by its visible head, our Holy Father, the Pope, salvation is an extremely difficult matter.

I do not speak here of pagans who have never heard of Our Lord or His holy religion, but of those outside the Church who claim to be good Christians without being members of the Catholic Church.

 

[cascherman]

Only a small handful of protestants will get to heaven, and not because they are protestant, but in spite of it. Our Lord said “the way is narrow” that leads to heaven. If it is that hard while having access to the sacraments, then it is an extreme rarity that someone who doesn’t have that access to pass through the pearly gates. Read my next post for clarification.

I can’t quite say I agree, unless your clarifying post up-coming will say almost the opposite of your first.

I expect there will be many many protestants in heaven. Without the sacraments they will not have a full understanding of the true historical Christian faith, but some protestants I know have a downright obsessive love for Christ, and they are as the Catholic Church says, invincibly ignorant.

You may not agree with this but I think of it as if they have not had the chance to encounter the true Christian Church then they are like a man or woman who has ONLY heard twists and lies about Christ yet still believes in God, but does not believe in his Son.

This may be my own opinion, but I will not say that protestants will be few and far between in heaven. To be sure, I do not know if that will be so or not, it comes down to God’s grace.

 

[SemperFidelis]

I expect there will be many many protestants in heaven.

The Baltimore Catechism disagrees.

Without the sacraments they will not have a full understanding of the true historical Christian faith, but some protestants I know have a downright obsessive love for Christ, and they are as the Catholic Church says, invincibly ignorant.

They might be invincibly ignorant. But no one who dies with mortal sin on their soul can be saved, whether they are invincibly ignorant or not. How many protestants use birth control, etc. etc.? As stated above, there are only two ways to be absolved of mortal sin: Confession, which they can’t go to, or an act of perfect contrition, which is rare even among Catholics.

You may not agree with this but I think of it as if they have not had the chance to encounter the true Christian Church then they are like a man or woman who has ONLY heard twists and lies about Christ yet still believes in God, but does not believe in his Son.

This is probably true regarding most protestants. But they MUST be free of mortal sin at the time of death. That is hard to come by for a protestant.

This may be my own opinion, but I will not say that protestants will be few and far between in heaven. To be sure, I do not know if that will be so or not, it comes down to God’s grace.

“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” St. Matthew 7:13-14

If most Catholics won’t make it, I’m willing to bet very few protestants will.

 

[PapaSquash]

Semper

Good stuff.

The “loophole” if I can use the term, is that to be mortal, sin requires knowledge and intent. This may allow many God-loving non-catholics, who commit acts that, for you and I, require absolution or perfect contrition because we have been given the fullness of truth, to enter into his kingdom. (From those of us to whom much is given, much is expected.)

Is it irony that many of those who reject purgatory may stand to benefit so much from it?

And I’m not sure that perfect contrition is going to be so elusive for a prayerful Christian, steeped in scripture and truly sorry for his sins.
Not getting the sacramental benefits of Penance would, I think, make it much harder “work” to remain in the state of grace. (More irony perhaps?)

 

[retrovert]

The way I look at it is this. When we both get to heaven (Protestants and Catholics) they will find out we were right !!!

 

[palmas85]

I can’t quite say I agree, unless your clarifying post up-coming will say almost the opposite of your first.

I expect there will be many many protestants in heaven. Without the sacraments they will not have a full understanding of the true historical Christian faith, but some protestants I know have a downright obsessive love for Christ, and they are as the Catholic Church says, invincibly ignorant.

You may not agree with this but I think of it as if they have not had the chance to encounter the true Christian Church then they are like a man or woman who has ONLY heard twists and lies about Christ yet still believes in God, but does not believe in his Son.

This may be my own opinion, but I will not say that protestants will be few and far between in heaven. To be sure, I do not know if that will be so or not, it comes down to God’s grace.

I don’t believe that at this point in time that the majority of Protestants could be described as invincibly ignorant. No, most Protestants know pretty much what the Catholic Church teaches and believes in and they refute it wholy and completely. That is not invincible ignorance.

As to there being many Protestants in heaven, maybe, but I doubt it. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Semper

Good stuff.

The “loophole” if I can use the term, is that to be mortal, sin requires knowledge and intent. This may allow many God-loving non-catholics, who commit acts that, for you and I, require absolution or perfect contrition because we have been given the fullness of truth, to enter into his kingdom. (From those of us to whom much is given, much is expected.)

Is it irony that many of those who reject purgatory may stand to benefit so much from it?

And I’m not sure that perfect contrition is going to be so elusive for a prayerful Christian, steeped in scripture and truly sorry for his sins.
Not getting the sacramental benefits of Penance would, I think, make it much harder “work” to remain in the state of grace. (More irony perhaps?)

I understand your point here, but I have to disagree. The Lord said the “road is narrow.” Realizing this and the Dogma “outside the Church there is no salvation,” leads one to the logical conclusion that very few, visibly outside the Church will be saved (technically they’re not outside the Church, but imperfectly joined to her.)

 

[homewardbound]

The Catholic Church is the only faith here on earth where one can be truly close and have a real personal relationship with God. One based solely on His rules, His laws. It is His Church, so why would someone who loves God with his whole heart and soul not want to be completely obedient and as close to our Lord and Father as we can be?

As for whether or not many Protestants will go to Heaven or not, I don’t know. No one does. No one knows but God.

I believe there will plenty there. I believe some Protestants will get in and some Catholics will not. I will never believe for a second the stupidity of thinking only Catholics, or only Baptists, or only Muslim, or only Jews will be in Heaven. In Heaven, there will be no organized religion. Once we are all in unity with Christ we will not need one. There will only be our Lord and His guidelines for worship and praise and it will be better than any form of worship here on earth.

Also, I use the term “we” loosely. I definitely don’t assume I will 100% certainly be there.

 

[retrovert]

Very well put…

The Catholic Church is the only faith here on earth where one can be truly close and have a real personal relationship with God. One based solely on His rules, His laws. It is His Church, so why would someone who loves God with his whole heart and soul not want to be completely obedient and as close to our Lord and Father as we can be?

As for whether or not many Protestants will go to Heaven or not, I don’t know. No one does. No one knows but God.

I believe there will plenty there. I believe some Protestants will get in and some Catholics will not. I will never believe for a second the stupidity of thinking only Catholics, or only Baptists, or only Muslim, or only Jews will be in Heaven. In Heaven, there will be no organized religion. Once we are all in unity with Christ we will not need one. There will only be our Lord and His guidelines for worship and praise and it will be better than any form of worship here on earth.

Also, I use the term “we” loosely. I definitely don’t assume I will 100% certainly be there.

 

[Spirithound]

I expect there will be many many protestants in heaven. Without the sacraments they will not have a full understanding of the true historical Christian faith, but some protestants I know have a downright obsessive love for Christ, and they are as the Catholic Church says, invincibly ignorant.

You may not agree with this but I think of it as if they have not had the chance to encounter the true Christian Church then they are like a man or woman who has ONLY heard twists and lies about Christ yet still believes in God, but does not believe in his Son.

This may be my own opinion, but I will not say that protestants will be few and far between in heaven. To be sure, I do not know if that will be so or not, it comes down to God’s grace.

I think there is a difference between the “large” number of Protestants who arrive in Heaven, vs. the “small” percentage of Protestants who do so.

 

[Atemi]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

Not only Protestants, but also pagans and even atheists.

Once the non-Christian world hears that they can be saved even if they are not Christians, then they are simply most likely to maintain the status quo.

The inability or unwillingness of the Christian to differentiate between saved and lost is the greatest tool of the Enemy to relegate us to a life of spiritual impotence.

Telling someone that they merely have a better shot at salvation as a Catholic or Christian is not good news at all. For many, believing that kind of doctrine will result in damnation.

…

 

[fellowChristian]

John 6

54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

55"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

56"**He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. **

57"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.

58"This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

A practicing Catholic abides in Jesus by eating His flesh and drinking His blood in the most holy sacrament.

A Protestant says the whole Bible is to be taken “literally” but this is only “symbolic”.

1 Timothy 3:15
15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. **

Matthew 18:17
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

.

The Catholic Church follows scripture in that the Church is the sole authority. The Bible says the Church has the authority.

Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it

Jesus built a church. He didn’t write a book.

The church came first then the book and in that order. and then over a thousand years later the protestant reformation began. its not that hard to figure out. but our sins blind us from the truth.

 

[VociMike]

Why seek all the graces God desires to give? Why seek all the understanding God desires to provide? Why seek the deepest relationship with God possible? Why seek truth instead of error, knowledge instead of ignorance, obedience instead of disobedience, unity with God instead of separation from God?

Heck, I dunno.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

If you are traveling to a destination and several routes lead there. Would you not take take the one with the least obsticles, the least pitfalls and dangers. The one with the most helps and directional signs, the one with the most experienced guides?

 

[PapaSquash]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

Because God wants me to be in full communion with his Church. And I have to move towards “what is thy will for me” and away from “what’s in it for me?”

 

[clmowry]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

Hmm, How about this:

Do you think it would be a better idea to plan your retirement based on the assumption you’ll win the lottery or by following the investment advice of the world’s best financial planner during your working years?

Chuck

 

[Church_Militant]

Here’s a question I had posed to me. “If you Catholics believe protestants can get to heaven too, what difference does it make whether I stay protestant or join the Catholic Church”?
Anybody got an answer ??

The difference is between Christianity Lite and the Fullness of Truth.

Here’s how I explained that on a recent thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by **xfrodobagginsx **

There is no where in the bible to indicate that those are NOT works. There is plenty in the bible to indicate that it is by FAITH alone that we are saved. You are adding to salvation.

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Here… lemme be sure that you see that passage so that it stays in your mind and heart. I’ve been praying for you and trying to make sure that you see this warning because of the different gospel of men that you keep putting forth.

Remember…you’ve seen it. That means that you no longer have an excuse doesn’t it?

Quote:
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. {with him: or, with me}

And every faithful Catholic cries out AMEN! ALLELUIA!

But as I have shown you several times and you have now posted the specific passage that I was driving at (under the direction and guidance the Holy Spirit), that different gospel of men may be very dangerous.

Quote:
It is the gospel that saves, not baptism. There is a distinction:

1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}

So then the apostles preached a different gospel on the day of Pentecost under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when St. Peter preached, "[38] And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2)

And then St. Paul was led astray when he was preached the following by the man sent to him by the Holy Spirit? “[16] And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.” (Acts 22)

How can that be?

It cannot, can it? Therefore, in a contradiction between any given interpretation of men and the Word of God, that makes the men in error, correct?

Quote:
Communion is works. Good deeds are works. Baptism is works. The only thing is says to do is trust Him for salvation by FAITH.

Does it? I think we’ve shown many times over that this is only a errant teaching of men and that what you have been taught and continue to teach is just more of that same error.

If you cannot resolve that then perhaps you need to prayerfully begin to carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (2nd Timothy 2:15)