Why Catholics Can't Sing

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T. More:
Has anyone read this?
Why Catholics Can’t Sing
amazon.com/gp/reader/0824511530/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-3380108-8422210#reader-link

You can read the introduction online. I am curious about others’ thoughts and experiences.
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Why Catholics Can’t Sing and Where Have you Gone MIchelangelo are both great books! The first time I read Why Catholics Can’t Sing was in the bookstore and I was laughing out loud!

I am very fortunate to attend Mass with the Oratorian fathers. The celebrate Mass reverently, choose good opening and closing hymns, have the congregation and choir chant the Kyrie in Greek and the Gloria, Sanctus and Angus Dei in Latin. The choir usually sings the offertory in Latin (sometimes in polyphany). Incense used every Sunday. And homilies that actually tell you something about Catholicism (I have actually heard homilies about the Church’s stance on abortion and contraception!).

With all of this going on the congregation nearly always sings their parts reverently and with feeling. I only with that there were more parishes like this. I grew up in a parish that started out with a clssically trained organist and good singing with a hand bell choir for Christmas Eve mass. But eventually to make things more “relevant” we got bad guitar playing and horrible cantors, which resulted in the general lack of participation. Gads, it was horrible.

Gray Mouser
 
Exporter:

I can sympathize with how you are distracted by singing and find it difficult to have an interior sense of worship and sing at the same time. I have had a similar experience.

I’ve been reading Church documents trying to understand the Church’s teachings on this issue. My understanding is that the Church highly encourages us to sing when appropriate to do so, but appreciates the fact that some people have a difficult time with it for various reasons. Those who have difficulty are free to find other ways to participate in a spiritual way in the Holy Sacrifice, but I get the impression that this is almost a compromise and that the better way is to lift our hearts, minds, and voices to God in the liturgy.

I attend the Tridentine rite. As a member of the congregation, I sing the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and the processional and recessional hymns. At first, my mind was completely focused on the act of singing. After about a year (I’m a slow learner) this was no longer the case and what I am singing is truly in my mind and heart. I feel that I am worshipping more fully now than when I prayed silently during Mass because I didn’t know how to sing the Latin. I have more of a sense of joining in the prayer of the entire Church to offer fitting worship to God.

I’m not saying this is what you should do. I’m just offering this as my experience.

Here are some interesting quotes from church documents regarding several of the things discussed in this thread:

Mediator Dei (Pope Pius XII) -

“They also are to be commended who strive to make the liturgy even in an external way a sacred act in which all who are present may share. This can be done in more than one way, when, for instance, the whole congregation, in accordance with the rules of the liturgy, either answer the priest in an orderly and fitting manner, or sing hymns suitable to the different parts of the Mass, or do both, or finally in high Masses when they answer the prayers of the minister of Jesus Christ and also sing the liturgical chant.”

Sacrosanctum Concilium (Vatican II document)

“Religious singing by the people is to be intelligently fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises, as also during liturgical services, the voices of the faithful may ring out according to the norms and requirements of the rubrics.”
“In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.”

“Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”

Pax Christi
 
Gray Mouser said:
Why Catholics Can’t Sing and Where Have you Gone MIchelangelo are both great books! The first time I read Why Catholics Can’t Sing was in the bookstore and I was laughing out loud!

I am very fortunate to attend Mass with the Oratorian fathers. The celebrate Mass reverently, choose good opening and closing hymns, have the congregation and choir chant the Kyrie in Greek and the Gloria, Sanctus and Angus Dei in Latin. The choir usually sings the offertory in Latin (sometimes in polyphany). Incense used every Sunday. And homilies that actually tell you something about Catholicism (I have actually heard homilies about the Church’s stance on abortion and contraception!).

With all of this going on the congregation nearly always sings their parts reverently and with feeling. I only with that there were more parishes like this. I grew up in a parish that started out with a clssically trained organist and good singing with a hand bell choir for Christmas Eve mass. But eventually to make things more “relevant” we got bad guitar playing and horrible cantors, which resulted in the general lack of participation. Gads, it was horrible.

Gray Mouser
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I am ssssooo glad this subject has come up . The poor singing in Dallas Churches is one of the most discouraging things for this convert from Anglicanism . I loved “Why Catholics Can’t Sing” .

On another subject, his book"Where Have you Gone MIchelangelo’ There are a few of us trying to answer this call. I am a Painter/Sculptor who regularly works for the Church. I would be very happy to show you what I have been doing to make things at least a little better. If you would like to see it go to www.hillstream.com

Those of you who have praised your parishes singing–WHERE ARE YOU?? I want to visit!
 
You get more hearty singing of the old latin standards in my parish than anything else (Credo III, Missa de angelis etc.). I also think that the effect of receiving the Holy Eucharist regularly tends to deepen the interior life and the prayer of quiet. This has it’s effect on the external ‘show’.
 
Jim ov Cov:
You get more hearty singing of the old latin standards in my parish than anything else (Credo III, Missa de angelis etc.). I also think that the effect of receiving the Holy Eucharist regularly tends to deepen the interior life and the prayer of quiet. This has it’s effect on the external ‘show’.
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Jim it is very good to hear from a Brit . How is the singing in the UK?
 
I think most people don’t sing because the music is too difficult to sing to. It seems that the music is chosen to test the ability of the canter or the organ. Most people want to sing simple hymns and to have them repeated often enough to be comfortable with them. There are many hymns that I love and are almost never sung. I think it would be better if the music was chosen by every one not just a small group. Many times they have taken surveys about the direction of our church, air conditioning, catholic groups,… but no one has ever asked what music we would like to sing.
 
I like them and I hate to see them go out of style. I also feel that they have a different conation from every day use. I think it is good to be a little formal when speaking to God the Father just as you should show a little different respect for you parents then you do for you friends. In the same way I feel that I can be less formal with Christ, my brother. I just wish people would stop trying to make my religion more meaningful using their viewpoint of what is meaningful to them.
 
I’m a muso in the Youth Music Group and one of my pet peeves is the way our congregation just DOESN’T sing!!!
Okay let’s give them some credit - they would sing the occasional song, like “The Power of Your Love” which, apparently I’ve been told had always been a St. Marks’ favourite…LoL~ Hope The Power of Your Love didn’t make some of you whince… but give us some allowances, it’s a ‘youth Mass’ :o
no one has ever asked what music we would like to sing.
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That’s prob. because if you do a survey, the congregation might not neccessarily pick music that goes with the readings? That’s what our priest taught us as a general rule of thumb…

Oh my goodness, I definiately second (third? forth?) the comments about music in impossible keys~ Our Church’s Gospel Choir does it… the keys suit ONE man - the lead guitarist/singer in their group and the rest of us are either impossibly high or impossibly low (depending on octaves). shivers not to mention … their music is more sentimental than liturgically correct…

Anyhows, do pardon my ranting! I should stop bashing our other music groups hey… lol

I guess for me the hard thing with being in music minstry sometimes is that lack of silence thing too… our practices always run late into literally moments before Mass starts, and during Mass it can be easy to get mechanical about singing the music without praying it too… then after we receive Holy Communion we barely have moments to pray before we have to launch into the communion song… sighs (I’ve insisted we musos receive last, in between the two songs, so there’s a decent moment of silence, and so that we can pray too… but that hasn’t happened yet~)
Any fellow musos struggle with the same things??

Cheers!
 
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Benedicite:
I guess for me the hard thing with being in music minstry sometimes is that lack of silence thing too… our practices always run late into literally moments before Mass starts, and during Mass it can be easy to get mechanical about singing the music without praying it too… then after we receive Holy Communion we barely have moments to pray before we have to launch into the communion song… sighs (I’ve insisted we musos receive last, in between the two songs, so there’s a decent moment of silence, and so that we can pray too… but that hasn’t happened yet~)
Any fellow musos struggle with the same things??

Cheers!
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In our parish the choir receives first. We only have a few seconds before we begin the Eucharistic hymn.

We at least have a minute of silence afterwards. All parishes were ordered to sing one verse onlyand then observe a period of silence. I try to never have a meditation song last longer than a minute (“O, Lord I am Not Worthy”, e.g.) and then the priest will maintain silence for a minute. This is when I say post-communion prayers.
 
I go to Mass to worship primarily to worship God and secondarily to get guidance from the reading and the homily. on the subject of singing, everyoneone who knows me well will tell you I couldnt carry a tune in a bushel basket so I leave it to professionals. singing is just rah rah, its not substance. howabout leaving out the music and getting back to worship!
 
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aspawloski4th:
I go to Mass to worship primarily to worship God and secondarily to get guidance from the reading and the homily. on the subject of singing, everyoneone who knows me well will tell you I couldnt carry a tune in a bushel basket so I leave it to professionals. singing is just rah rah, its not substance. howabout leaving out the music and getting back to worship!
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As St. Augustine said, “He who sings prays twice.” That’s what we’re doing, not just mere “rah rah”. We sing not only hymns to our Lord, but the sung prayers that have been a part of our liturgy for centuries, like the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei, the Gloria.

It’s fine if you don’t feel comfortable singing (although at a recent Mass I stood in front of a very tone-deaf parishoner who was singing with all her heart and appeared to take great joy in it. I’m sure it put a smile on God’s face, it did on mine). Don’t criticise the rest of us as not having substance because we wish to worship (yes, worship!) in this manner.
 
All,

Great thread! This might be off the subject, but I’ve thought of leaning Day’s book against the rectory front door, ringing the bell and running. My cowardly nature coming out.
So I’m open to suggestions on how to approach my pastor. Things are actually pretty good musically at my parish, the only real problem is the relatively new abuses of canned music and microphones on the cantors and choir (our parish church built in the 1800s has great acoustics and amplification just isn’t needed, and really detracts from the quality of the singing).

Our pastor seems pretty ‘with it’ musically, but as I wear a hearing aid, he asked me once if I could hear everything okay, and I made the suggestion that the singers stop using amplification, and he just looked at me. He probably thought that more noise is better for deaf people… not so!!!:eek: Thanks and God bless.

Dave
 
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aspawloski4th:
I go to Mass to worship primarily to worship God and secondarily to get guidance from the reading and the homily. on the subject of singing, everyoneone who knows me well will tell you I couldnt carry a tune in a bushel basket so I leave it to professionals. singing is just rah rah, its not substance. howabout leaving out the music and getting back to worship!
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Many of the songs are ssssoo pointless and boring that , if they were all that could be sung, I would agree with you— but don’t blame all music for a few daft poets. I have heard others say , and I agree, that the church is not in a Theological Crisis --it is in an Artistic Crisis. The Liturgy, Music,architecture and Art have been so Dumbed down, it now often communicates something false about God. The words may be true but the impression is one of a half-heartedness.

Just to let you know that it need not be that way look at this (And this by a Methodist–I wish you could hear the tune):

Arise, my soul, arise,
Shake off thy guilty fears;
The bleeding Sacrifice
In my behalf appears;
Before the throne my Surety stands;
My name is written on His hands.

He ever lives above
For me to intercede;
His all-redeeming love,
His precious blood to plead:
His blood atoned for all our race,
And sprinkles now the throne of grace.

Five bleeding wounds he bears,
Received on Calvary;
They pour effectual prayers,
They strongly speak for me:
Forgive him, Oh! forgive, they cry,
Nor let that ransomed sinner die.

The Father hears him pray,
His dear anointed One;
He cannot turn away
The presence of his Son:
His Spirit answers to the blood,
And tells me I am born of God.

My God is reconciled,
His pard’ning voice I hear;
He owns me for his child,
I can no longer fear:
With confidence I now draw nigh,
And, Father, Abba, Father, cry!
 
seeker jen. I have no problem with you worshiping the way you want. there was 2 things I was thinking of when I said rah rah, first adding additional hymns to Mass, to thew normal processional, offaatory, and recessional., my parish does that way too much, so much so I have friends that call it a conceart. the other thing I was thinking of was a typical protestant service. here in grand rapids michigan that would be a christian reformed service. a bunch of music and a serman. no substance. in this day and age people are trying to add more music to Mass to make it more entertaining. Mass is not supposed to be entertaining, its supposed to be worship of God, you need get nothing out if it, you should be just there to worship God and thaTS IT. THE whats in it for me attittude americans have these day has furtunately filtered into american catholics , which is too bad. when will it all end?! lets just get back to worship of God, and leave entertainment to the tv.
 
While I have to agree that music, like everything of beauty here on earth is “analogical” (except for the Sacraments, which are truly beautiful) to what the “beauty” of Heaven will be like, but as someone said above, we’re supposed to sing and praise the Good God, as commanded by Himself in scripture again and again. St. Thomas Aquinas’s definition of the beautiful is roughly,

The beautiful is that whose apperception pleases.

So while St. Augustine explained a great deal about the reasons for his conversion, he tells the compelling story of his heart being moved to tears of love and conversion as he listened to the beautiful hymn singing of the congregation at the Catholic Cathedral. Singing hymns, and as appropriate, listening to beautiful liturgical music played and sung, is supposed to help us to lift our hearts and minds (and bodies) to God, or, to pray. It is (supposed to be) a help. All the church instructions about liturgical music are simply to guide the pastors and musicians to help the congregation to pray. Granted, if you can’t carry a tune (but anyone with normal hearing can learn to carry a tune, it is the same as learning your numbers, shapes and colors), you may want to “sing quietly”, that’s fine, but liturgical music should have the same effect on us as it did on St. Augustine! So, let us pray for loving obedience to all the teachings and instructions of our Holy Church!
Dave
 
I think a lot of us (myself included) simply feel too embarassed to sing. I mean, people can hear you! The singers in my parish are definately the minority and I’m too shy to join them…

I daresay there are many who don’t sing for fear of showing too much enthusiasm; sadly, this is especially true among young people.
 
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aspawloski4th:
I go to Mass to worship primarily to worship God and secondarily to get guidance from the reading and the homily. on the subject of singing, everyoneone who knows me well will tell you I couldnt carry a tune in a bushel basket so I leave it to professionals. singing is just rah rah, its not substance. howabout leaving out the music and getting back to worship!
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While I can understand this attitude I have to strongly disagree with it. Things like the tradition of chanting the Gospel and the ordinaries of the Mass as well as the images of the heavenly liturgy in the Bible where the angels and saints are singing make it clear that singing is not just “rah, rah” stuff but rather the normative way in which God is worshipped in prayer. Ini the Byzantine rite the entire liturgy is sung!

As for not being able to carry a tune, neither can I just ask my wife 🙂 BUt the great tthing about gregorian chant is that it seems designed for those of us who can’t sing. After a few times at it it comes fairly easily I have found.

Gray Mouser
 
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JohnCarroll:
I am ssssooo glad this subject has come up . The poor singing in Dallas Churches is one of the most discouraging things for this convert from Anglicanism . I loved “Why Catholics Can’t Sing” .

On another subject, his book"Where Have you Gone MIchelangelo’ There are a few of us trying to answer this call. I am a Painter/Sculptor who regularly works for the Church. I would be very happy to show you what I have been doing to make things at least a little better. If you would like to see it go to www.hillstream.com

Those of you who have praised your parishes singing–WHERE ARE YOU?? I want to visit!
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JOhn, I checked out your website and all I can say is outstanding! We need good Catholic artists like you to help make churches beautiful again. (And I mean beautiful as churches, not as good looking pole barns! lol).

The sculpture is great, although I have to say I love the paintings even more (especially the “Crucifixion with Saints”). Reminds me of some renaissance pieces I’ve seen.

As for where I go to Mass, all I can say is, come to the Pittsburgh Oratory when next you are in town! Actually, the “smalls and bells” Mass is celebrated at Heinz Chapel at Pitt as part of the Oratorians’ work with college students, although the Sunday Mass at the Oratory itself is getting better musiic recently, I have noticed.

Gray Mouser
 
Gray Mouser:
JOhn, I checked out your website and all I can say is outstanding! We need good Catholic artists like you to help make churches beautiful again. (And I mean beautiful as churches, not as good looking pole barns! lol).

The sculpture is great, although I have to say I love the paintings even more (especially the “Crucifixion with Saints”). Reminds me of some renaissance pieces I’ve seen.

As for where I go to Mass, all I can say is, come to the Pittsburgh Oratory when next you are in town! Actually, the “smalls and bells” Mass is celebrated at Heinz Chapel at Pitt as part of the Oratorians’ work with college students, although the Sunday Mass at the Oratory itself is getting better musiic recently, I have noticed.

Gray Mouser
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Thank you Gray Mouser
It sounds as if you have a beautiful Mass . I will try to remember to look for the Heinz Chapel when I come to Pittsburgh.
 
Seems like a very interesting and informative book.
Less than half sing in my parish…we have a cantor who leads, we have guitar music, an organ and a box that produces music…they refer to it as “Cynthia”. :eek: So we have it all and still not a great participation…
I love to sing…problem is that I’m tone deaf:o sooo my husband and family have respectfully asked if I would spare them and everyone else!
Could this be one of the reasons?😉
Annunciata:)
 
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