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Hisalone
Guest
I am the OP who posed the OP question so if you want to change the question start your own thread.
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Hisalone
Guest
Youll be sorry. Someday those velvet Elvis’ will be worth money. 
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Hisalone
Guest
thanks for sharing
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Randy_Carson
Guest
When the Apostles went forth to “make disciples of all nations”, they took people away from the false religions and converted them to Christianity. Paganism lost its people who were won for Christ.
The early Chistians did the same thing with the feasts and festivals. Paganism lost its holy days which were also won for Christ.
By way of example, how many evangelical churches in this country offer “fall” or “harvest” festivals on October 31 as a Christian alternative to Halloween for the kids?
The conversion of December 25 was no different…it just happened a long time ago.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
However, since scripture does record that they observed “the Lord’s day” - that is, Sunday, the day that He rose from the dead - there is some reason to believe that they would have recognized other significant days in His life. After all, the Jews were steeped in a culture of observance of annual feasts, weren’t they?
Correct. This is a “tradition” and not a “Tradition”. However, it is a devotion and not a doctrine, so you won’t get much mileage out of that.
Are you certain of this? The early Church was quick to gather up the bones and other relics of the martyrs, and early artwork suggest that the Church did not despise these things as you suggest.
This is simply untrue as archeology proves. “Petros and Paulus, pray for us.” The catecombs are filled with such graffiti from first and second century tombs.
So what? This is a discipline of the Church. However, if you need some explanation of the teaching of Jesus and Paul on the subject, I have lots of scriptures to support the practice.
Can you prove your assertion? The early Church did not observe Easter. Prove it.
It could…but not profitably.
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LilyM
Guest
Answer the rest of the question - do you actually celebrate Our Lord’s birth at the time of year that the Feast of Tabernacles falls, then?
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kalt
Guest
Proof? You can assert that, but you have to prove it. How do you come to that conclusion?
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kalt
Guest
Hisalone, when will you celebrate Christmas (if you do)?
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juliamajor
Guest
Much of the feasts ,methods of sacrifice,and laws of the OT are directly based on Pagan antecedents.Should we gut the OT- Should the Jewish people not celebrate Passover because of it’s pagan roots?
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Bennie_P
Guest
All truth points toward Christ, if it does not point to Christ then there is no light, no truth…
The Catholic Church even today has a time of Advent/ relflection while the rest of the world celebrate the winter holidays, though many of us fall prey to the world’s false idea of what is proper, there should be no sin in celebrating and be thankful for life with family and friends, using the birth of Christ as our focal point, for Christ is life and the light of the world. Pagans’ and non-believers’ light burns quickly and ends in ash and tears, lasting only an moment compared to Christ light which shines and endures on toward all enternity… :angel1:
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Bill_Pick
Guest
Hisalone, Have not seen any of your post latley have you been or did you celebrate Christmas or did you become a Atheist or a JW let us know and stay in touch, and have a Happy New Yearthanks for sharing
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juliamajor
Guest
Actually if you are going to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles-do it the Jewish way and not the neo-christian way.Sukkot is a harvest festival - the tabernacles(not really a good translation) was not the Tabernacle of the Lord but the booths or tents that the Jews used in the wilderness years
In Leviticus, God told Moses to command the people: “On the first day you shall take the product of hadar trees, branches of palm trees, boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook” (Lev. 23:40), and “You shall live in booths seven days; all citizens in Israel shall live in booths, in order that future generations may know that I made the Israelite people live in booths when I brought them out of the land of Egypt” (Lev. 23:42-43).
The Feast of Tabernacles you proclaim is NOT that of the Jews.But a construct by men-if you are going to celebrate Sukkot at least do it for the right reason-Ingathering of the harvest(which means it is closer to Thanksgiving in it’s meaning then Christmas) and not the Incarnation.
In Leviticus, God told Moses to command the people: “On the first day you shall take the product of hadar trees, branches of palm trees, boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook” (Lev. 23:40), and “You shall live in booths seven days; all citizens in Israel shall live in booths, in order that future generations may know that I made the Israelite people live in booths when I brought them out of the land of Egypt” (Lev. 23:42-43).
The Feast of Tabernacles you proclaim is NOT that of the Jews.But a construct by men-if you are going to celebrate Sukkot at least do it for the right reason-Ingathering of the harvest(which means it is closer to Thanksgiving in it’s meaning then Christmas) and not the Incarnation.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Again, you have to make distinctions of Christianized pagan days, pagans, and what it simply means to be human…
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juliamajor
Guest
If you celebrate Sukkot-do you.
A. Put up a booth
B.eat your meals in them
C. Have the four species
D.Wave the four species
E. circumambulate around your synagogue
F say prayers that welcome the seven shepherds of israel
G.Eat special foods?
If you don’t you are not celebrating the feast as stated by God in Lev. but creating your own imaginary feast day.
A. Put up a booth
B.eat your meals in them
C. Have the four species
D.Wave the four species
E. circumambulate around your synagogue
F say prayers that welcome the seven shepherds of israel
G.Eat special foods?
If you don’t you are not celebrating the feast as stated by God in Lev. but creating your own imaginary feast day.
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Joshua27
Guest
I know not many of us do, but I wonder…
Indeed, what if it’s not a matter of what one religion does versus another when it comes to the holidays?
What if we are Christians…the same as defined as followers of the God of Israel…the same God of Israel that gave the Jews laws and instructions to follow? How is it that we can arbitrarily choose to follow our own…because of what we believe are more important aspects of our relationship with God?
What we “feel” are most important is fine, but what did God (of Israel) “say” to do?
What if God (of Israel) is quoted as saying He does not change [so he has not change] and is the same forever [so He’s the same now as He was back then]?
What if God (of Israel) is quoted as saying that rememberance of His Laws shows as a perpetual (continuous, everlasting, daily) covenant with Him?
What if God is quoted as saying that we should not take anything from pagan religions…even if it IS to be converted and used in worship of Him (God of Israel)?
What if the Messiah - himself a Jew - is on record as honoring certain Jewish Holidays; that He is on record commanding people to follow God’s Laws (the very same of the OT); that He is on record as saying He hasn’t come to destroy the Laws of God (OT); the very same Jewish Messiah we all claim to follow, as Christians today?
What if God is quoted commanding us to use the heavenly stars as our yearly calendar and as a sign of major events and Holy days?
What if God is quoted as commanding us that a new year starts only when the Barley has reached its highest in the field; and based on a Luna cycle (instead of a Solar cycle)?
What if the birth of the Messiah is preceeded by ‘something’ that occurred in the stars of heaven…something that would corroborate on this calendar we are supposed to follow, as a specific day?
What if we hold Sacred Tradition (and religious tradition) as more important; more sacred than the words (and Word) of God (of Israel); of the very Christ we follow “thus saith the Lord”]?
What if we as followers of the God of Israel (whatever christian religion), are only supposed to honor the Sabbaths of God as Holy Days?
What if the prophet Daniel is recorded as having a vision of an “enemy” who sought to change God’s original “times” & “laws” (calendar and commandments)?
What if that “enemy” was indeed successful at changing the times & laws of our faith hundreds of years ago?
What if I told you that every major holiday we hold in reverence today - with exception of secular days - can be found on the luciferian calendar as their Holy days [from official source]…everything from Groundhogs Day to Yule? Look it up.
Indeed, what if it’s not a matter of what one religion does versus another when it comes to the holidays?
What if we are Christians…the same as defined as followers of the God of Israel…the same God of Israel that gave the Jews laws and instructions to follow? How is it that we can arbitrarily choose to follow our own…because of what we believe are more important aspects of our relationship with God?
What we “feel” are most important is fine, but what did God (of Israel) “say” to do?
What if God (of Israel) is quoted as saying He does not change [so he has not change] and is the same forever [so He’s the same now as He was back then]?
What if God (of Israel) is quoted as saying that rememberance of His Laws shows as a perpetual (continuous, everlasting, daily) covenant with Him?
What if God is quoted as saying that we should not take anything from pagan religions…even if it IS to be converted and used in worship of Him (God of Israel)?
What if the Messiah - himself a Jew - is on record as honoring certain Jewish Holidays; that He is on record commanding people to follow God’s Laws (the very same of the OT); that He is on record as saying He hasn’t come to destroy the Laws of God (OT); the very same Jewish Messiah we all claim to follow, as Christians today?
What if God is quoted commanding us to use the heavenly stars as our yearly calendar and as a sign of major events and Holy days?
What if God is quoted as commanding us that a new year starts only when the Barley has reached its highest in the field; and based on a Luna cycle (instead of a Solar cycle)?
What if the birth of the Messiah is preceeded by ‘something’ that occurred in the stars of heaven…something that would corroborate on this calendar we are supposed to follow, as a specific day?
What if we hold Sacred Tradition (and religious tradition) as more important; more sacred than the words (and Word) of God (of Israel); of the very Christ we follow “thus saith the Lord”]?
What if we as followers of the God of Israel (whatever christian religion), are only supposed to honor the Sabbaths of God as Holy Days?
What if the prophet Daniel is recorded as having a vision of an “enemy” who sought to change God’s original “times” & “laws” (calendar and commandments)?
What if that “enemy” was indeed successful at changing the times & laws of our faith hundreds of years ago?
What if I told you that every major holiday we hold in reverence today - with exception of secular days - can be found on the luciferian calendar as their Holy days [from official source]…everything from Groundhogs Day to Yule? Look it up.
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jmcrae
Guest
It’s hardly “arbitrary.” People didn’t just suddenly invent Christmas one day - there was a gradual build-up to it, starting with the fact (indisputable to Christians) that God became a man and dwelt among us, and this is an important fact to celebrate.
God (Jesus) established the Church and set the Apostles in authority over it. He said to them “What you bind on earth is bound in Heaven; what you loose on earth is loose in Heaven.” (Matthew 16:19, to Peter alone, and then to all of the Apostles in Matthew 18:18) - this means that the Apostles (today, their lawful successors) can freely set times and seasons of celebration.
Nothing is being taken from the pagan religions, other than in the most general way. The date - well, every day of the year is holy to someone. December 25th makes sense because it is nine months after March 25th, which was the date that the Apostles and their followers celebrated the Annunciation (the coming of Gabriel to Mary) - now, some might debate whether Mary became pregnant with Jesus on exactly the same day, however it is not unreasonable to think that she did, since the Scriptures show that she had already become pregnant when she arrived at Elizabeth’s house not many days later. With regard to the telling of the Nativity story, yes, the pagans have story-telling - but they don’t tell the Nativity story. With regard to gathering for worship, yes, the pagans do that, too, but they don’t gather in Catholic Churches to worship Jesus Christ - they gather in other kinds of places to worship their own deities.
The Luciferians got their calendar from us because the whole point of their existence is to mock the Catholic Church, so of course their calendar mirrors ours - how can they mock us, without at the same time imitating us?
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juliamajor
Guest
What you state is a virtual impossibilty.If you are a nation and are not cut off by being on an island or sequestered in some physical manner you will adopt customs by cultural dispersion.Cultures bleed their customs via merchants, nomads,invading forces, treaties, etc. this is not speculation this is historical fact.The Israelites have adopted and adapted many cultural aspects of pagan societies.Israelite altars , Israelite sacrifices were copied from the Canaanite civilization -and canaanite society predates Israelite society.Their altars are almost identical with the “horn” around them.The sacrificial portions and manner of oblations again were taken from pagan sources- they adopted then adapted them.
Circumscion was not unique to the Israelites and could have been adopted in Egypt.Passover and the feast of unleavened bread also developed from and precede Israelite society.They are very ancient shepherd and grain festivals.Again the adopted and adapted.The oldest name for God “El” along with many of God’s names are adopted and adapted from canaanite religion.If you try to divorce all pagan influences fvrom every aspect of the religion of Israel then you wouldn’t have much left.But if you see that adopting and adapting cultural aspects of those surrounding you was a way of spreading YHWH’s name and fame then maybe you’ll understand why Christianity adopted and adapted from pagans just as the Israelites did.If anyone says they are totally free of any pagan influences from the past they are either very ignorant or lying.
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rdscheirer
Guest
Where in the Bible does it say “three wise kings”- please don’t upset the Sola scriptura fans- there were three gifts but no metion of the number of the MagiFor centuries people were waiting for the King who was foretold would be born and free them, On the day He was born, the angels came and informed the shepherds, Three wise kings came to see Him from the east.
Yes the day as per your say is important, but if Catholic church feels we should celebrate it on 25th December, than we are all for it.
God Bless you.
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rdscheirer
Guest
From what I have read by lots of sources in the historical vein, the shepherds in Dec would probably have been in the valleys as Dec is cold even in Israel. Most of the meterologic/historians say the time would have been April or after. Who cares- obviously some do- or could it have been that there was global warming to allow the sheep to be in the mountains
All I know is that my Savior was born of God and Man and became flesh to suffer our transgrestions and attone for or sins.
All I know is that my Savior was born of God and Man and became flesh to suffer our transgrestions and attone for or sins.
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Joshua27
Guest
So there was a gradual build-up to saying “this is what we will celebrate”.
Wow…Such audacity, because you will not find one statement from Messiah or God granting of this power to anyone. What you will try to do is assume this power was included from a prior power given. But the Messiah and God were always explicit in their authority of the apostles. Nowhere does it say they could freely set times and seasons. I challenge you to find proof, sir.
Nothing is being taken…but generally, yeah?
Research Emperor Constantine I and his desire to unify the Roman Empire in 312?AD. Research how all other pagan religions were worshiping on Sunday for their god “Sol Invictus”. Research how Constantine wanted peace so he “suggested” that the pope change the holy day. Research how - prior to the change - there were Popes, a Catholic Church and Christianity (spread throughout nations for more than 200 years during persecution) who’s holyday was Sabbath day. This is historical fact. This is not a general pagan influence…this is substancial. But now you’ll probably go and say, “yeah we copied, but we made the day holy with meaning”, yet you will not have an answer to, “are you following what God - and the Messiah - ‘SAID’ to follow?”
This isn’t about anyone else “well other people have holy days”]…this is about those who claim to follow the God of Israel, as all Christians (Catholics, Protestants, Pres.) and Jews do, and yet we say “I’ll follow Him, my way” (such is an oxymoron).
You then go on to explain the altruistic reason for our decision to celebrate what we want to celebrate. How vain are we? Messiah did not come down and tell us “remember my birthday”; or, “remember when I was conceived”. There was one thing he explicitly said to hold in rememberance of Him.
Prove that theirs came second, sir…prove that ours came first. I can prove that ours was changed by Pope Gregory XIII [did you know he added days]…prior to that, it was changed by Emperor Julian (a pagan). We do not follow God’s Calendar.
You see…you have no answer for my specific “what ifs”. In my last post I presented to you God’s perspective - taken directly from the recorded pages of He and His Son’s lips - and you argue me as if they are my points of view.
For a moment, imagine yourself standing before God and Messiah…Would you actually still give them the same explanation you gave me?
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