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C
cathopologist
Guest
If Christianity ‘divorced’ itself from the Torah, then it would become Islam. Full of revelations that has no lineage or historicity whatsoever.
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RobHom
Guest
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
God does not like “divorce”. Besides Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. Those who fall from Grace, or refuse to believe in the Savior Jesus Christ and follow him, then the Law abounds and convicts. Only Jesus can save us. But the moral Law (Tora) is needed for those in the World who refuse Jesus Christ. Where there is no Mercy or Grace the Law is always there.
St. Augustine “The New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament”.
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cathopologist
Guest
Amen and true that!
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dzheremi
Guest
As Christians, we recognize that our forefathers in the faith were Jews. There were no Christians, as such, in those days. There were only Jews considered heretical for their belief in Jesus, but they still kept Jewish customs and considered themselves Jews. Jesus Christ was also a Jew.
I would rather we die out as a community than have this lineage torn apart so that Christianity will make “more sense” to a non-Christian. This is where we came from, and without it what do we have? Or better yet, what do we not have? Cathopologist said it best.
I could say that it would make more sense to me if Islam did not try to present itself as an Abrahamic religion, since it is apparently based on how the other members of this tradition are corrupted and wrong and hence it is correct even though it contradicts their tenents in several major ways, but you would not accept this, Paarsurrey. And you’d be right to not accept it. You must believe as a Muslim that your religion is the restoration and perfection of the faith of Abraham, even if both the Christians and the Jews do not see it that way. So I would be wrong to expect you to throw away your own vision of your faith and its history on my account.
Then again, perhaps this is not such a great analogy. Mainstream Christians accept that we have historically grown out of a group of heretical Jews. Muslims, and please correct me if I am wrong, do not accept that they have grown out of another community, despite some evidence that Muhammad was taught by Gnostics and other heretical Christian groups present in Arabia at that time. This is why you must go so much farther in denying or re-writing history than any other group. Suddenly great Jews and Christians of the past must be Muslims one and all, or else how exactly does Islam fit in with the other Abrahamic religions? I will leave it to you to ponder that, with the reminder that you have lost adherents over this very question (our old Orthodox friend Silouhan mentioned this in the story of his conversion to Christianity, and I can’t believe that he should be the only one who ever asked that).
I would rather we die out as a community than have this lineage torn apart so that Christianity will make “more sense” to a non-Christian. This is where we came from, and without it what do we have? Or better yet, what do we not have? Cathopologist said it best.
I could say that it would make more sense to me if Islam did not try to present itself as an Abrahamic religion, since it is apparently based on how the other members of this tradition are corrupted and wrong and hence it is correct even though it contradicts their tenents in several major ways, but you would not accept this, Paarsurrey. And you’d be right to not accept it. You must believe as a Muslim that your religion is the restoration and perfection of the faith of Abraham, even if both the Christians and the Jews do not see it that way. So I would be wrong to expect you to throw away your own vision of your faith and its history on my account.
Then again, perhaps this is not such a great analogy. Mainstream Christians accept that we have historically grown out of a group of heretical Jews. Muslims, and please correct me if I am wrong, do not accept that they have grown out of another community, despite some evidence that Muhammad was taught by Gnostics and other heretical Christian groups present in Arabia at that time. This is why you must go so much farther in denying or re-writing history than any other group. Suddenly great Jews and Christians of the past must be Muslims one and all, or else how exactly does Islam fit in with the other Abrahamic religions? I will leave it to you to ponder that, with the reminder that you have lost adherents over this very question (our old Orthodox friend Silouhan mentioned this in the story of his conversion to Christianity, and I can’t believe that he should be the only one who ever asked that).
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