Why Christianity?

[clarkal]

patg:

Yes, but what were those HISTORICAL events? I always wondered about the many hundreds of people who rose to life from their tombs to rejoin society - you would think someone besides one gospel writer might have made note of that.

Yeah, one would think so. Good point.

 

[clarkal]

clarkal:

RMP,

Anyway, the works of Julius are lost, however, so it is really difficult to assess the validity of what Thallus wrote.

In addition, nobody really knows anything about Thallus. We don’t even know if “Thallus” is his correct name.
Clarkal

Actually, I should have said that some writings of Julius remain. None of Thallus’ writings are known to exist, however.

Anyway, it is still difficult, if not impossible, to assess.

 

[RobedWithLight]

The briefest reply we can make is: Why not ?

Gerry

 

[clarkal]

RobedWithLight:

The briefest reply we can make is: Why not ?

Gerry

I have seen what Christians claim is evidence for the validity of Christianity. However, it seems to me that this evidence usually falls apart when seriously analyzed, and I will not change my lifestyle dramatically for beliefs that I think are extremely doubtful. That would be really foolish and a huge waste of time of what is most likely my one and only life. I won’t risk it.

This does not mean, however, that I have completely closed my mind to Christianity. It just means that if I am to be convinced that it is true, the evidence will have to be good enough to surmount my doubts about it.

Clarkal

 

[RMP]

The evidence does not make the case fall apart, You just refuse to believe, just like Thomas did after the ressurrection, Until the LORD himself conforts him directly and personally.

My only point is: Many people say it is a hoax, no factual evidence. I was only showing that nonchristians wrote about it. Something (whatever you want to call it) existed worth describing, aka. christianity. Tell me with historical evidence and writings to support your beliefs, what started christianity then? Who started it? When and where did the hoax begin? What are your references, the BIBLE itself, how convenient? Where is your proof it is a hoax. All you can acuse is: it is made up! Where is YOUR evidence it is MADE up? This is what you believe, what evidence do YOU believe that denies the validity of christianity?
If you find the people that were challenged with the hoax of christianity it can be very revealing. Many early writings show their lack of understanding of mysterious events and accuse it of being a false religion of fanaticsm. Well, that means people thought it WAS a religion. WHY? These were honorable, intelligent men of their day, for non christians, I guess.

 

[clarkal]

RMP:

The evidence does not make the case fall apart, You just refuse to believe, just like Thomas did after the ressurrection, Until the LORD himself conforts him directly and personally.

Of course.

RMP:

My only point is: Many people say it is a hoax, no factual evidence. I was only showing that nonchristians wrote about it.

You concluded your previous post with this: *"There are many other NON believing people or historians of their day that record events IN HISTORY validating christian occurrences.

There is no doubt about the HISTORICAL events that took place at CALGARY and the years to follow.*"

I merely attempted to show some reasons as to why I and skeptics believe that those particular writings do not validiate Christianity, the existence of Jesus Christ, or his Resurrection. The only thing that some of those ancient writings validate is the existence of Christians in those times.

RMP:

Something (whatever you want to call it) existed worth describing, aka. christianity. Tell me with historical evidence and writings to support your beliefs, what started christianity then? Who started it? When and where did the hoax begin? What are your references, the BIBLE itself, how convenient?

Any growing religion would be worth noting and describing. I don’t see what this proves, though.

I do not know what, who, or when and where Christianity started. I hope I did not claim to have that knowledge, because nobody, I think, can know for sure. I suppose all that one can do is make an educated guess.

RMP:

Where is your proof it is a hoax. All you can acuse is: it is made up! Where is YOUR evidence it is MADE up? This is what you believe, what evidence do YOU believe that denies the validity of christianity?

I do not have proof (conclusive evidence) that Chrsitianity is a hoax, and I never said positively that Christianity is made up. I said that it appears that the evidence offered in its favor is unconvincing, and I simply offered some reasons as to why skeptics reject those particular ancient writings as proving the existence of Christ or the truth of his religion.

RMP:

If you find the people that were challenged with the hoax of christianity it can be very revealing. Many early writings show their lack of understanding of mysterious events and accuse it of being a false religion of fanaticsm. Well, that means people thought it WAS a religion. WHY? These were honorable, intelligent men of their day, for non christians, I guess.

I’d reply, but I’m not sure that I understand what you are saying here.

Clarkal

 

[RMP]

So basically you have no faith in man. You have no faith in religion. You have no faith in apostolic tradition. The Word of mouth being handed down from one generation to the next. Why? Because it could be false or it could have changed for the worst, why trust anyone? It seems to me, How can you have faith in anything? If I told Ive been the Longview TX, would you believe me? I cant prove it. Nobody has written about it. I have no pictures, no one was with me. Would you believe me if I told I was?
To not have faith in man, being skeptical, is unhealthy when takin to extremes like your position. What can you believe in unless it looks you right in the face, especially about JESUS christ and his church. Christians only ask that you seek the what we DO have (bible, writings of christianity, history in general) and make a decision. I dont think you have looked at christianity with an open mind, but from a distance. Call it fear, or whatever. Once you do, it WILL change your life. But change is scary. Im a christian, trying to change every day, it is still scary sometimes when I realize how much more I should do in life. But I do not doubt the religion at all.
The Catholic church teachs THE truth to the entire world. The world has never listened. The world doesnt even understand WHAT the church teaches most of the time.
Are you aetheist, agnostic? or something else?

 

[clarkal]

RMP:

So basically you have no faith in man. You have no faith in religion. You have no faith in apostolic tradition. The Word of mouth being handed down from one generation to the next. Why? Because it could be false or it could have changed for the worst, why trust anyone? It seems to me, How can you have faith in anything? If I told Ive been the Longview TX, would you believe me? I cant prove it. Nobody has written about it. I have no pictures, no one was with me. Would you believe me if I told I was?
To not have faith in man, being skeptical, is unhealthy when takin to extremes like your position. What can you believe in unless it looks you right in the face, especially about JESUS christ and his church.

That is not true.

I have different degrees of faith in men depending upon the situation and claim.

If you told me that you had been to Longview, Texas, I would generally believe you. However, if I had a good reason to believe that you were lying, I would apply the appropriate degree of skepticism to your claim. It would be ridiculous for me to apply the same amount of skepticism that I do to religious, supernatural, or paranormal claims to ordinary statements and situations. And I don’t, because religious claims and the like are extraordinary claims, and I firmly believe that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

RMP:

Christians only ask that you seek the what we DO have (bible, writings of christianity, history in general) and make a decision. I dont think you have looked at christianity with an open mind, but from a distance. Call it fear, or whatever. Once you do, it WILL change your life. But change is scary. Im a christian, trying to change every day, it is still scary sometimes when I realize how much more I should do in life. But I do not doubt the religion at all.
The Catholic church teachs THE truth to the entire world. The world has never listened. The world doesnt even understand WHAT the church teaches most of the time.
Are you aetheist, agnostic? or something else?

I was a practicing orthodox Catholic, and I seriously considered entering the religious life. When I started to have questions and doubts about the faith, I delved into apologetics looking for answers, but I was left feeling unsatisfied. At one point during this process, I decided that I should find out the reasons why some rejected my faith. To make a long story short, I came to the conclusion that the skeptical side of the fence was correct in its skepticism and that there was no good reason for me to believe in Christianity, religion in general, or any paranormal or supernatural claims. In fact, there was reason to believe the contrary – and good reason at that, so I thought and still think to this day.

I am an atheist.

Clarkal

 

[RMP]

I am an atheist.

Cmon, be honest… your agnostic!
Atheism would require some irrefuttable PROOF that you have been likewise searching for in christianity. So, frankly I cannot believe you are atheist at all. To be athiest, You would have to have FAITH that GOD doesnt exist. Rather ironic.