Why Christians Should Accept Psychic Phenomena

[Julia_Mae]

If we are outside of the physical universe, awaiting the final judgement and resurrection, then there will be no “seeing”, “communicating”, or “acting”, at least not in the sense of human understanding, because we will be outside the current space-time dimensions.

After the resurrection, we will all have bodies.

Ergo, I reject the author’s premise.

You can read it in Scripture, hear it from saints, or talk to a medium. They communicate with us, always have.

 

[GEddie]

You can read it in Scripture, hear it from saints, or talk to a medium. They communicate with us, always have.

Mediums are disallowed in Christianity, for the very good reason that the whole enterprise is deceptive. There is no reason that the voice opposite hers is the dead human being it claims to be. The world is full of deceptive spirits that we, lacking spiritual senses, cannot discern.

If you have involved yourself with mediums or equivalent, cease and desist and get thee to confession. Communication with the dead isn’t worth the risk. You have literally forever to renew your acquaintance with them, once you have become a pneumatikon soma.

God Bless, ICXC NIKA!

 

[greylorn]

Not sure on Protestant theology, but Catholics expect the resurrection of the body, so no need for telekinesis or telepathy then. However, before the resurrection, I don’t see why communication and action would not be through these methods.

I do want to mention that I don’t see how this quote of yours* is a proof that Christians should accept psychic phenomena. I don’t see why after-death communication would necessitate worldly psychic phenomena.

*I Google searched the title you gave and found no paper or book or anything, except this forum. Can you provide a link?

Not yet. Snafu at the print shop. Sorry about that.

I didn’t suggest proof of anything-- just good reasons to accept the reality of psi. Julia Mae’s arguments on this thread are far better than mine.

 

[greylorn]

If we are outside of the physical universe, awaiting the final judgement and resurrection, then there will be no “seeing”, “communicating”, or “acting”, at least not in the sense of human understanding, because we will be outside the current space-time dimensions.

After the resurrection, we will all have bodies.

Ergo, I reject the author’s premise.

I have to wonder if you have the slightest idea as to what “outside the physical universe” means.

Where will the post-resurrection bodies be located. Or, in what kind of supporting environment? Will they eat, breathe, have sex, procreate? What will they do?

I’m guessing that you have no clue about it, and likewise have no clue as to how something “outside” can affect something within without going within. Your beliefs appear confused.

 

[GEddie]

I have to wonder if you have the slightest idea as to what “outside the physical universe” means.

Where will the post-resurrection bodies be located. Or, in what kind of supporting environment? Will they eat, breathe, have sex, procreate? What will they do?

I’m guessing that you have no clue about it, and likewise have no clue as to how something “outside” can affect something within without going within. Your beliefs appear confused.

Outside the known physical universe (yes, I understand that he didn’t qualify his statement), there could easily be other areas where bodies can live. Our LORD had to go somewhere. He didn’t just swim off into outer space.

As to the pneumatikon soma, we know that procreativity will not take place, because our LORD Himself said so. As to eating and breathing, we cannot be sure, except HE did both after HIS Resurrection.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

 

[Benadam]

Outside the physical universe would be anything not bound by physical laws. The human soul because it is not made by earthly processes like animal soul but created directly from God is able to reach a state of being not subjugated to the laws of physics. Our original state offered rule over the powers of nature but not the physical laws. The Resurrection is the material participation in the freedom from physical laws won in union with the soul of Jesus :twocents:

 

[jdwood983]

Not yet. Snafu at the print shop. Sorry about that.

I didn’t suggest proof of anything-- just good reasons to accept the reality of psi. Julia Mae’s arguments on this thread are far better than mine.

I do like & accept Julia’s arguments, but my comment was based on the fact that this thread is titled Why Christians Should Accept Psychic Phenomena, but doesn’t offer a “good” answer to the “why?” question in the OP.

 

[greylorn]

I do like & accept Julia’s arguments, but my comment was based on the fact that this thread is titled Why Christians Should Accept Psychic Phenomena, but doesn’t offer a “good” answer to the “why?” question in the OP.

Had I provided a “good” answer to the question I posed, what would have been the point of asking it?

The point of the question and its introductory considerations was to provoke thought on the part of others. Seems like except for Julia Mae, that idea was more poorly received than my book on “Do It Yourself Family Dentistry With Dremel and Bondo.”

 

[jdwood983]

Had I provided a “good” answer to the question I posed, what would have been the point of asking it?

The point of the question and its introductory considerations was to provoke thought on the part of others. Seems like except for Julia Mae, that idea was more poorly received than my book on “Do It Yourself Family Dentistry With Dremel and Bondo.”

The point would have been the same whether or not you included a good answer: to see if others agree or disagree with your thoughts. I’ve always thought that that is the reason for starting any new thread on any forum. Anyway, my suggestion is that a differing thread title is in order, but I like the topic.

And I think more people than Julia received your provoked thought. I did, Benadam did, GEddie did, as did a few others. And could you just remind me, who was it that was complaining about who for exaggerating a tad in a different thread?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Mediums are disallowed in Christianity, for the very good reason that the whole enterprise is deceptive. There is no reason that the voice opposite hers is the dead human being it claims to be. The world is full of deceptive spirits that we, lacking spiritual senses, cannot discern.

If you have involved yourself with mediums or equivalent, cease and desist and get thee to confession. Communication with the dead isn’t worth the risk. You have literally forever to renew your acquaintance with them, once you have become a pneumatikon soma.

God Bless, ICXC NIKA!

Everyone here is such an expert in how the Other Side operates, yet, none of you have any first hand experience. Some here do, and there actually* are* ways to know that the information is known not to come from some spooky dark force y’all are constantly conjuring up in your imaginations.

Mediums are not forbidden, as some mediums are priestss, saints, and one was Jesus Christ. This is something that many many Catholics have first hand experience with, and talk about openly in their parishes. Some priests work with mediums. It’s a gift of the Holy Spirit, denying that would be the real sin.

 

[Julia_Mae]

As to the pneumatikon soma, we know that procreativity will not take place, because our LORD Himself said so. As to eating and breathing, we cannot be sure, except HE did both after HIS Resurrection.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

He did those things here, in Space/Time. Outside of Time, things are a bit different. There’s no matter, so… nothing material to eat.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Outside the physical universe would be anything not bound by physical laws. The human soul because it is not made by earthly processes like animal soul but created directly from God is able to reach a state of being not subjugated to the laws of physics. Our original state offered rule over the powers of nature but not the physical laws. The Resurrection is the material participation in the freedom from physical laws won in union with the soul of Jesus :twocents:

^^^+++

I do like & accept Julia’s arguments, but my comment was based on the fact that this thread is titled Why Christians Should Accept Psychic Phenomena, but doesn’t offer a “good” answer to the “why?” question in the OP.

I need to combine these, I’m spamming the thread.

The reason a Christian should accept psychism is the same reason a Christian should accept that the earth rotates around the sun, it is what it is. The thing we never need to fear as Christians is truth, as God is Truth. Did I not put links to the studies ITT? Let me know if anyone wants them and I’ll PM them or post them again.

Or try reading this: metaphysicalcatholic.blogspot.com/p/and-then-it-got-weird.html

 

[greylorn]

The point would have been the same whether or not you included a good answer: to see if others agree or disagree with your thoughts. I’ve always thought that that is the reason for starting any new thread on any forum. Anyway, my suggestion is that a differing thread title is in order, but I like the topic.

And I think more people than Julia received your provoked thought. I did, Benadam did, GEddie did, as did a few others. And could you just remind me, who was it that was complaining about who for exaggerating a tad in a different thread?

You and your henchmen seem to have dropped the ball, not received it. Unless i missed something, your game appears to be about gathering wood for a witch burning, rejecting any notion of psi on dogmatic grounds, without engaging whatever passes in you guys for minds.

About what I’d expect from someone who “thinks” that there should be a common reason behind every OP, a reason which meets his personal approval.

Nonetheless, I’m glad that I generated this particular thread. Julia Mae has caught the ball and scored, showing how to integrate psi phenomena with the experiential reality behind a Church with a more fascinating history than its members realize.

 

[GEddie]

He did those things here, in Space/Time. Outside of Time, things are a bit different. There’s no matter, so… nothing material to eat.

Actually, there is matter there, if only HIS human body!

 

[Benadam]

Really as christians we can only view psychic phenomena through the lense of what was natural in our original state. Then was a profound unity experienced. One reason was because of the penetrating gaze that is natural to a soul with an unobstructed view. Earthly life didn’t end when the body could no longer be animated by the soul. It ended in elevation body and soul. Imagine human life without graveyards. Imagine human life connected to the generations who came before.

That relationship, before the fall, that would have been between those who live on earth and those who’s earthly life has ended. Imagine the profound connection if death didn’t obstruct communion between human life on earth and human life that has transcended it’s earthly life.

Because this unimagineably intimate connection is natural to human life in it’s original state I think all the phenomena experienced by psychics, are remnants of the natural powers of human life in it’s original state. How one defines the experience and the terminology used to express it depends on the reality construct the reciever operates from.

 

[Julia_Mae]

That relationship, before the fall, that would have been between those who live on earth and those who’s earthly life has ended. Imagine the profound connection if death didn’t obstruct communion between human life on earth and human life that has transcended it’s earthly life.

Because this unimagineably intimate connection is natural to human life in it’s original state I think all the phenomena experienced by psychics, are remnants of the natural powers of human life in it’s original state. How one defines the experience and the terminology used to express it depends on the reality construct the reciever operates from.

This is an interesting post. In my own experience, which includes a background in paleoanthropology and general science, so I tend to look for those explanations. OTOH, I am also Catholic and when we refer to the Church Triumphant and “all the angels and saints on whose constant intervention we rely for help,” that unimagineably intimate connection you spoke of seems so far beyond the realm of anything as mundane as human science, and so much more real.

However, I believe the Global Consciousness Project, without intending to, has given us the first objective evidence of the existence of consciousness outside of Time responding to events in Time. This is a brief older You Tube 3 minute report: youtu.be/itQMALL__bE

I just found that the GCP site seems to have been taken offline, but this link will take people to the older site: global-mind.org/intro_bottom.html These scientists are all about explaining how the psi phenomena they have already demonstrated to exist, works. Part of that is the theory of noosphere: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere

For a look as science investigating psychism generally, folks can peruse this site: princeton.edu/~pear/

In the non-science realm, Benadam said this: **Imagine the profound connection if death didn’t obstruct communion between human life on earth and human life that has transcended it’s earthly life. **

What do we say? “Dying You destroyed our deaths, rising You restored our life.” They are right here. Or, we are right there, it’s this separation that is the illusion.

It’s like being in a cabin in the woods on a starry moonlit night. From inside, under a harsh electric bulb, the windows look painted black and you can see nothing outside. But from the outside, everything is bathed is the glow of natural light and you can see the people inside the cabin through the windows very clearly.

It isn’t like we aren’t in the woods, we are just spending Time in the cabin.

 

[jdwood983]

You and your henchmen seem to have dropped the ball, not received it. Unless i missed something, your game appears to be about gathering wood for a witch burning, rejecting any notion of psi on dogmatic grounds, without engaging whatever passes in you guys for minds.

I don’t believe you have read my comments in their entirety. So here’s what I said on the subject matter of the OP:

Not sure on Protestant theology, but Catholics expect the resurrection of the body, so no need for telekinesis or telepathy then. However, before the resurrection, I don’t see why communication and action would not be through these methods

I don’t see any wood-gathering here. I agree with your assertion of communication/action after death. I readily accept psychic phenomena in our world though I remain skeptical of those who are using it for worldly gain. All I’ve said otherwise is that I don’t think your OP is a definitive proof that one should accept psychic phenomena.

About what I’d expect from someone who “thinks” that there should be a common reason behind every OP, a reason which meets his personal approval.

Don’t see where “personal approval” comes in, but why wouldn’t there be a common reason behind every OP? Isn’t the internet forum meant to be for the transmission of ideas and thoughts from one person to many or starting a discussion about some topic (via question or statement form). Isn’t that what you are actually doing here?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Isn’t the internet forum meant to be for the transmission of ideas and thoughts from one person to many or starting a discussion about some topic (via question or statement form). Isn’t that what you are actually doing here?

I’m here for the lovely parting gifts.

where’s Vanna?

 

[promethius]

I have to wonder if you have the slightest idea as to what “outside the physical universe” means.

Granted I hold my degree in physics, I would say that I have as reasonable a concept as can be expected.

Where will the post-resurrection bodies be located. Or, in what kind of supporting environment? Will they eat, breathe, have sex, procreate? What will they do?

I see that you are not educated in Catholic end-times theology… I’m not asserting that we have our physical bodies outside of a physical universe. Instead, we teach that our bodies rest in the grave until the final judgement (when we die, we only go through the particular judgement), at which point the earth… and assumably the whole universe… is remade and perfected. I can’t tell you exactly what that means, only that there will be a new world on which we will reside in our bodies… I can’t even tell you whether or not that world will involve any of the same physical laws as this one does.

So I guess I can forgive your snark because of your ignorance of catholic theology.

I’m guessing that you have no clue about it, and likewise have no clue as to how something “outside” can affect something within without going within. Your beliefs appear confused.

Of course I have no clue about anything that happens outside the universe. You don’t either. No one has any clue. If there were continuity of laws between the inside and the outside of the universe, there would be an outside to begin with.

However, I have a theory based on the book “Imagining the Tenth Dimension”:

If we consider a two dimensional existance encountering a three dimensional cube, what does the being in the two dimensional existance perceive? Answer: a playing card of zero width. At that point it’s possible for said being to touch anywhere in the cube without actually entering the cube. The same might be said if we collapse all dimensions (including time), which would explain how a being of singular existance could touch all places and all times at the same eternal “moment”

Again, of course, this is only conjecture, since you, I, and the entire scientific community do not and never will understand what it is like to exist outside of the universe.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Well we actually are to have bodies in Heaven since there will be a ressurrection of the body. I know we can be contacted by God in our thoughts but I think we have been restrained by our bodies or that our souls don’t have this ability. I actually am a magician and I will be the first to tell you that all psychics are frauds. If you can show me someone who can actually do these things in a scientific setting, then I would believe. Unfortunately for them, I know how they appear to do it and will not fall for it. Besides, if there were real psychics they would take Jame Randi’s challenge and make a million dollars. They would win the lottery. They would be millionaires.

I’m late to this, but things you should know:

1. Randi is a rabid atheist and his test has been proven to be so “biased” so that one will NEVER WIN.
   And HE decides what is “acceptable” or not to test. and if you do not “meet his sytandards,” you are automatically a “fake.”
   There are FAR beytter scientific people who would give far better tests than Randi. Remember, he is a DEBUNKER, so his mind is ALREADY made up.
   Nothing you say will convince him. So no matter what the results of the tests. are, he will look at them from that viewpoint. His test is set up so that you will NEVER win the money.
2. That is far too “total” of you to say ALL of them are frauds. You have looked at ALL evidence and ALL recorded instances of “psychic phenomena” to make that estimate?
3. I personally believe in psychic phenomena, but I also agree that MOST (not all) of it does not come from God. Some of it does, but one has to test it. Like Paul said---- “test the spirits.Not all spirits come from God.”

And I also agree with the Church that, even though psychic phenomena is real, one should stay away from it (unless it intrudes itself on your life, in which case one needs to address it). Ultimately, it is your relationship with God that matters and your salvation that matters, NOT dealing with psychic phenomena.
Psychic phenomena is interesting—IF looked at from the view of admiring the wonder of the Universe only-----if one becomes obsessed with it and preoccupied with it, then one should avoid it. If it leads you away from the Faith and God and Christ, it is wrong.