Why Christians shouldn't drink alcohol (even if it's in moderation, it's a sin!)

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Gorgias said:
Well, for one thing, the use of recreational drugs is (generally always) illegal, while the consumption of alcoholic beverages can be legal.

On the other hand, people take drugs legally every day – the use of prescription drugs isn’t a sin! So, the comparison you’re making is between the use of a legal substance and the illegal abuse of other substances. Not a fair comparison, wouldn’t you say?

“Then [Jesus] took a cup, gave thanks, and said, ‘Take this and share it among yourselves; for I tell you [that] from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.’” (Luke 22:17-18)

I would say that God directly commanded it, given the Scriptural evidence… 😉

Tobacco use isn’t sacramental, though. It also doesn’t provide any nutrients. At least wines and beers have some nutritional value, albeit small…
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I m pretty sure that Jesus would not have drunk to the point where he got that “high” from drinking alcohol
The question for all drinkers from me will be whether you do drink for “pleasure” or not.I think if it is for pleasure it is sin.
I sometimes over eat chocolates. Eating chocolates is not a sin .But sometimes it gives me real momentary pleasure and I tend to over eat which I am sure is a sin(though a small one)
To explain this further I am sure I am not sinning as long as I eat I piece of chocolate every day.But occasionally I eat 7-8 pieces which is a sin (a smaller though)though it does not do any harm to my body in the long run.I fail to practice self control in that case.By eating excessive chocolates I am searching for that “pleasure”

Jesus drank only wine according to scripture.So If some one quotes scripture to say drinking is ok I would assume any drink which is not wine can be a source of sin

I really don’t think any one will drink beer and wine for its nutritional value(unless it is prescribed by a doc)
 
My only rules about alcohol are as follows:
  1. If I know someone who struggles with alcoholism or drunkenness, I will go out of my way not to drink around them because I would hate for my drinking to create for them a near occassion to sin.
  2. I drink in moderation, which means no more than say a rum and coke a week, and maybe a glass of wine every other day.
As for alcohol altering the mind, so does coffee. Also, Jesus turned water into wine (not grape juice). There are also several verses in scripture that suggest drinking a bit of wine is acceptable for digestion. Certainly sacred scripture speaks against drunkenness, but not drinking. The scriptures also speak against obesity, so does that mean we shouldn’t eat? It speaks against sloth, so does that mean we shouldn’t sleep? Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Drinking to the point of intoxication is a sin. Also, I disagree that a little alcohol alters your brain all that much. We are not protestant legalist teetotalers.
 
CMSUVulcan said:
The scriptures also speak against obesity, so does that mean we shouldn’t eat? It speaks against sloth, so does that mean we shouldn’t sleep? Drinking alcohol is not a sin. .
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While agreeing with all the good points you have raised I disagree with the above

Drinking alcohol is avoidable where as eating and sleeping are not avoidable.
Certainly over sleeping and over eating as you know are sins(though smaller ones)
 
My conclusion is if it for that “high or excessive pleasure” that one drinks it is a sin.Otherwise it may be not

PS:Every food gives you some pleasure.If drinking alcohol gives excessive pleasure and it is that excessive pleasure that one seeks from alcohol it is a sin

St. Alphonsus Liguori wrote the following when explaining gluttony:

“Pope Innocent XI has condemned the proposition which asserts that it is not a sin to eat or to drink from the sole motive of satisfying the palate. However, it is not a fault to feel pleasure in eating: for it is, generally speaking, impossible to eat without experiencing the delight which food naturally produces. But it is a defect to eat, like beasts, through the sole motive of sensual gratification, and without any reasonable object. Hence, the most delicious meats may be eaten without sin, if the motive be good and worthy of a rational creature; and, in taking the coarsest food through attachment to pleasure, there may be a fault.”[4]
 
Sky_River said:
My conclusion to all of this is basically this. It’s sinful and unwise for Christians to drink alcohol.
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Such would be an incorrect conclusion.

Sacred Scripture, the example of Jesus, the Apostles, Catholic moral theology etc is set against the idea.

One is though to live by the virtue of temperance.
 
St. Paul’s opinion:

“Stop drinking only water, and have a little wine for your digestion.”

(1 Timothy 5:23)
 
Nope, it’s not sinful to drink alcohol in and of itself. Well, having alcohol in very small and tiny quantities, such as a sip or two, or adding a tiny bit for flavor, is not sinful at all. That’s okay in my opinion.

What I’m talking about is having enough alcohol where it starts to affect your soberness, then it becomes sinful in my opinion. And I’m not just talking about being drunk. Even having one drink or glass can (albeit slightly) affect somebody’s soberness, as well as some of their judgement. They can still have their good judgement in that stage, they’re not really intoxicated to the point where they make stupid decisions while they’re drunk, but there’s still some bad effects.

Even one beer will slightly lower somebody’s inhibitions and slow down their thought processes.

What I’m talking about is drinking a glass of wine or beer to “relax”, which also means to get “buzzed”, which is sinful because your inhibitions are being lowered, even if you’re not drinking to get drunk or intoxicated.

The words in the bible that refer to wine, may very well have been referring to simply regular grape juice. Is there any evidence to support that the last supper wine was definitely alcoholic wine?
 
Bookcat said:
Originally Posted by Sky River
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As always cat - - excellent and succinct.

In defense of the OP though…May I suggest that he might be partly correct. While it is not sinful to drink alcohol it may certainly be unwise. Much of what is expressed in the OP regarding the effects of alcohol is true to one degree or another. Of course there are also numerous studies and reports that suggest moderate intake can actually be healthy.

Ultimately, the wisdom (or lack thereof) in drinking alcohol depends much on the individual.

But I repeat…this speaks to the wisdom factor…not the “sinful”.

More generally speaking…
Many point to the fact that Jesus drank wine and also the impossibility of keeping unfermented grape juice fresh…These are good points.
However - it should be recognized that throughout the ancient world fermentation was done more much more for the health (and storage) aspects than for the “effects” of alcohol on the brain. Beers and wines were simply healthier than the water in most cases and this is why it was used.
Thus, in the Biblical sense, the admonition to remain sober CANNOT be intended to mean complete abstinence from ALL alcohol. Tod do so in that day and age was to invite an early death.

Of course today we do not generally have the same issues that they did back then - at least not in many places. We understand about clean water issues etc. Thus making the alcohol aspect superfluous. But - as mentioned earlier…there are other health benefits reported from responsible alcohol use…

Just some thoughts…

Peace
James
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This is plain silly. You should stop now before God calls you to judgement for leading weak souls astray from centuries of uninterrupted Catholic moral teaching disagreeing with your assertions.

I’ll stick with the Magisterium here.
 
To the Op if even what you say as one glass of wine or one beer does not inhibite your jusdgemtn but lowers your inabitions, then the sin that may accure is not from the drink but in not following your better judgement.

And I have to ask why is haveing a glass of wine to help relax a sin?

Another thing all the talk about the chalice of the last supper keep in mind this was not the only time of the evening that wine would have been drank.

And again the Scripture tells us to not be a drunkard. It a person does become intoxicated that does not make them a drunkard. The person that had just to much at a social gathering is not at drunkard a drunkard is one that wroks hard to stay in that state of intoxication drinks to get in that state and lets all other things go just to drink to the point of intoxication.

These things you are stateing is the same as the Sadusees and Phariseess at the time of Christ in taking the Law that was given to the Hebrews to free them from the bondage of the Egypt they uses to bind them again in seretude with.

My advise, kick your shoes off lossen your belt pour a glass of ogg red wine ( maybe a nice chianti) turn on some good relaxing jazz and chill.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
To the Op if even what you say as one glass of wine or one beer does not inhibite your jusdgemtn but lowers your inabitions, then the sin that may accure is not from the drink but in not following your better judgement.

And I have to ask why is haveing a glass of wine to help relax a sin?

Another thing all the talk about the chalice of the last supper keep in mind this was not the only time of the evening that wine would have been drank.

And again the Scripture tells us to not be a drunkard. It a person does become intoxicated that does not make them a drunkard. The person that had just to much at a social gathering is not at drunkard a drunkard is one that wroks hard to stay in that state of intoxication drinks to get in that state and lets all other things go just to drink to the point of intoxication.

These things you are stateing is the same as the Sadusees and Phariseess at the time of Christ in taking the Law that was given to the Hebrews to free them from the bondage of the Egypt they uses to bind them again in seretude with.

My advise, kick your shoes off lossen your belt pour a glass of ogg red wine ( maybe a nice chianti) turn on some good relaxing jazz and chill.
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As somebody whose mind is currently altered by caffeine, nicotine and alcohol, I beg to differ. None of the aforementioned substances have in any way noticeably increased my propensity to act sinfully.

Mind-altering substances are very much a part of life, and used responsibly and without detriment to others, are not sinful. Caffeine can be used to mitigate the feeling of tiredness, nicotine can be used as a focusing aid, stress-reliever and antidepressant, and alcohol can be used as an anxiolytic sedative. Some people also use coffee, tobacco and alcohol because these drugs give them a pleasure.

Most people you meet on the street have had a morning coffee, some smoke tobacco, some have had a drink, some have anxiety and take benzodiazepine drugs, which have disinhibiting, anxiolytic and sedating properties much like alcohol, and some are depressed and take antidepressants, whose very purpose is to alter the mind. Some smoke marijuana medicinally, some take amphetamines for narcolepsy or problems with attention span, and in some jurisdictions, weight-loss. Some take morphine or other opiates for pain. These people are not sinning in using mind-altering substances.

Comparisons between pot and alcohol are indeed valid, as low doses of each have comparable effects. But if you go to the pharmacy with a cold, you might be given pseudoephedrine, a substituted amphetamine, whose effect on dopamine and norepinephrine on the brain is pretty much identical, although an order of magnitude weaker. You can freely buy codeine for a headache, which has nearly identical effects to morphine, although is a rather weaker version thereof. Both these drugs are noticeably similar to the related “hard drug” and can have a notable mind-altering effect, causing noticeable mood-elevation at fairly low doses in many people. People succumbing to the temptation of taking amphetamine-based decongestants when they have a runny nose need not go to confession, however.

You are free to abstain from each and every mind-altering substance if you wish to do so, but you cannot judge others for using these substances either recreationally or medicinally. As long as you respect Caesar, and by that I mean the laws in your jurisdiction, and use whatever substances are permitted for recreational or medicinal use in moderation and in a responsible manner, you are not sinning.
 
Sky_River said:
Here’s why. Alcohol is a mind altering drug. Even just somebody having one drink to “relax, but not to get drunk”, is still having their inhibitions lowered, as well as their thought processes slowing down, which violates the Bible’s commands to stay sober. Sometimes, even when they’re not drunk, alcohol may influence some people to say things that they wouldn’t normally say. Yes, they can still think clearly and they still can keep their basic judgement if they drink in moderation, it’s nowhere near as bad as a drunk person who’s judgement and soberness is totally impaired, but it’s still not right! Their soberness is still being impaired to some extent.

Christians that defend drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation are condoning the usage of mind altering drugs.

Even if drinking in and of itself isn’t a sin, in a culture that’s so harmed by the abuse of alcohol, why not decide to not drink, in an effort to influence everybody else not to drink, which might stop some people from using alcohol irresponsibly and dangerously.

Sure, having a glass of beer or wine is not on the same level as sin or wickedness as getting drunk is, but it’s still not right at all, in my opinion.

It’s definitely immoral for somebody to smoke pot, don’t you agree with me? Yes it is, because “drugs are bad” and us Christians shouldn’t be drug users. Yet you think nothing is morally wrong with using a mind-altering drug in the form of alcohol? A casual booze drinker is no better than a casual pot smoker, except they aren’t breaking the law. They are after the same psychoactive effect, that “buzz” one gets from a mind-altering drug. And that’s not good.

A marijuana smoker has their inhibitions lowered, which contradicts the Bible’s commands at soberness, however, a person that has a glass of wine is doing that same exact thing. What’s the difference? There is none. Both are using mind altering drugs for a “buzz”, which lowers their inhibitions, which the Bible condemns. By defending the moderate consumption of alcohol, Christians are acting no better than a pot smoker defending the moderate usage of marijuana, by stating “yes, getting drunk is immoral, but I don’t drink to get drunk, i drink to relax”, which is the same exact thing as a pot smoker saying, “i just get buzzed, i don’t get stoned”.

Most people that condone alcohol in moderation would never smoke marijuana (and rightfully so, using drugs is very immoral!). That’s because “drugs are bad” and they aren’t drug users. Yet they thought nothing of using some other mind-altering drug in the form of alcohol! Such hypocrites!

Yes I know that drinking small amounts of alcohol don’t lead to drunkenness and intoxication (which the Bible clearly condemns). But it still doesn’t make it right!

Just like a casual pot smoker, someone taking a few tokes isn’t going to be stoned and intoxicated (which is intoxication-the equivalent to being drunk). But it still doesn’t make it right to smoke pot, which is a drug! Also, alcohol is a DRUG! Remember that!

Yes I know that someone who has a glass of beer or wine isn’t really drunk or intoxicated! Technically, yes. But that still doesn’t make it right!

Just like someone having one puff of a joint isn’t stoned or intoxicated. But that still doesn’t make that right either. Is that moral and OK to do? No, of course not! So why should doing that very same thing with another mind altering drug (aka alcohol), be condoned? That’s very hypocritical and inconsistent if you ask me, to condone the moderate consumption of alcohol. We shouldn’t have double standards as Christians. Sin is sin.

Shouldn’t us as Christians realize that we should simply just stop defending and justifying this mind altering drug called alcohol, simply because of our cultural bias and because of it’s popularity and social acceptance? We wouldn’t do that very same thing with other mind altering drugs, so what makes alcohol any different?

Also, yayin and oinos can also mean regular grape juice also. Those words don’t really prove that drinking alcohol is condoned in the Bible. In fact, proverbs 31 4 even states that kings and princes are not supposed to drink wine, as well as strong drinks.

My conclusion to all of this is basically this. It’s sinful and unwise for Christians to drink alcohol.
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Apparently you have never been to a Catholic wedding reception. :rolleyes:
 
Sky_River said:
Even one beer will slightly lower somebody’s inhibitions and slow down their thought processes.

What I’m talking about is drinking a glass of wine or beer to “relax”, which also means to get “buzzed”, which is sinful because your inhibitions are being lowered, even if you’re not drinking to get drunk or intoxicated.
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What’s wrong with “slightly” lowering one’s inhibitions? Especially if generally, you are quite anxious, uptight and a bit shy? Do people with anxiety disorders sin by taking their medication too?

What’s wrong with slowing down your thought processes if you’ve got a racing mind and can’t fall asleep? Are sleeping pills sinful too?

What’s wrong with getting “buzzed” and enjoying the pleasure a drink can give you, much like you get a warm buzz when the sun is out after a long, cold winter? Do people who go on spring walks for pleasure sin?
 
Sky_River said:
My conclusion to all of this is basically this. It’s sinful and unwise for Christians to drink alcohol.
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All this reminds me of Baptists I grew up with who thought drinking a beer and committing adultery were on the same plain.
 
I get where you are coming from but it speaks more if you have self control and can control your will and you are not a slave to a passion or addiction. As far as the wine used in the last supper there is evidence that it was wine and not grape juice. Grape juice wasn’t invented until the19th century by Thomas Welch when he pasteurized the grapes and grape juice grapes are different then wine grapes. Vitis vinifera are wine grapes and Vitis labrusca are grape juice grapes. Grape juice grapes are found only in the Eastern United States thus why they have names like Concord, Niagara, Catabwa, and Delaware. 80% of labrusca cultivated are Concord grapes. Vitis vinfera grapes grow only in the Mediterranean, Central Europe, Southwest Asia, and from Morocco to Iran.
 
Sky_River said:
What I’m talking about is having enough alcohol where it starts to affect your soberness, then it becomes sinful in my opinion.
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Again that’s your opinion. What is sinful for others is not defined by one person’s opinion, sin is defined by the teachings of our Church, and our Church does not teach that drinking alcohol is sinful. If you don’t wish to do it then that’s fine, but you have no authority to determine what is and what isn’t sinful. And your own interpretation of scripture is not relevant either. As Catholics we rely on our Church’s interpretation of scripture, as to rely on our own personal interpretation to determine sin and truth would result in billions of different versions of the Truth, which simply cannot be.
Sky_River said:
It’s definitely immoral for somebody to smoke pot, don’t you agree with me? Yes it is, because “drugs are bad” and us Christians shouldn’t be drug users.
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Why is it definitely immoral? Has our Church decreed that it is? Or do you say this because it is illegal? Alcohol is a drug, tobacco is a drug, cannabis is a drug. it is not the taking of these drugs, but any immoral actions that result that are sinful. Smoking cannabis is not in itself an immoral act (just as drinking alcohol is not in itself an immoral act).
 
abinjoy said:
I think it is a sin.I strongly feel there is no such thing like drinking in moderation not being a sin.The degree of sin may from person to person.

By the same logic can I watch an adult movie in moderation(For eg: watch just 5 mins of an hour long movie) : lol Or can I watch till the point where I start feeling temptation?

Why would one want to drink alcohol when there are good substitutes?Alcohol certainly has some power which other fluids may not be having.So if one is searching for that special “power” of alcohol it is sin I think
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Well, you aren’t God. Why do you think you can determine what is and is not sin? Our Church has not declared drinking alcohol in moderation to be a sin, and most people are not alcoholics and can stop when they need to. This is not sinful.
 
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