Why Concupiscence?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Oren
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
O

Oren

Guest
Not sure if this is the right forum for this question. But, how come baptism doesn’t take away concpiscence? Wouldn’t it make more sense if it did?
 
Oren said:
Not sure if this is the right forum for this question. But, how come baptism doesn’t take away concpiscence? Wouldn’t it make more sense if it did?
Click to expand...
It was concupiscence that caused Adam and Eve to fall. Baptism restores us to the supernatural (divine) life that we had with God prior to the fall but does not increase what God has designed for us as humans. So, while God does allow us to partake in His divine nature as adopted sons and daughters He does not intend for us to be better than His original plan for us in Adam and Eve.

Does this make any sense? Sometimes I cannot fully express what I mean but I hope this helps…God Bless…teachccd 🙂

P.S. The New Advent definition is kind of tough for those that are new to these big Catholic words. 😃
 
If baptism took away concupiscence, that would mean taking away our free will to choose good or evil. If we’re automatically good, without having to fight the pull towards evil, where’s the merit in that?
 
Let me see if I can recall this from wrote.

Man’s concupicence was injured or wounded during or with the fall… The sacrements restore our concupicence or better strengthens it… When we sin we are wounded to the degree that we sin. If we continue to sin without the sanctifying grace that God gives us through the sacraments we become even more wounded… this state becomes serious over time. Mortal sin is a sure shot way of becoming seriously wounded. We have to learn or delelop our consciences to the teachings of the Church to better be restored…

I’m not a real fancy writer and know where to find and understand things. Working on improving that though. Hoping to work towards a theology degree soon.
 
teachccd said:
It was concupiscence that caused Adam and Eve to fall. 😃
Click to expand...
Really? I thought that the Church teaches that concupiscence is the effect of original sin, not the cause of original sin. And it cannot be both.
 
The sensuous appetite existed before the fall but was in harmony with reason. I believe that Augustine thought that concupiscence had motivated Adam & Eve but the Church does not teach this. She only teaches that they took it upon themselves to disobey God-and that was original sin-we don’t really know more than that I believe.
 
davidv said:
Really? I thought that the Church teaches that concupiscence is the effect of original sin, not the cause of original sin. And it cannot be both.
Click to expand...
No, it cannot be both and I will further my search on this as I thought that I had the correct information. But as a teacher of the faith it is my reponsibility to research the truth. I may stand corrected. Thank you and rest assured that this question does not surface often, especially when teaching Junior High…God bless, teachccd
 
Oren,

Concupiscence remains because God allows it to remain. Baptism could have conceivably removed concupiscence (and death!) but in God’s providential design it does not.

The Council of Trent in Session V gives us this reason:
But this holy synod confesses and is sensible, that in the baptized there remains concupiscence, or an incentive (to sin); which, whereas it is left for our exercise, cannot injure those who consent not, but resist manfully by the grace of Jesus Christ; yea, he who shall have striven lawfully shall be crowned.
Click to expand...
VC
 
Yes,
Concupisence. Hard to remember for some people, sometimes a stupid little poem helps – sort of like ring around the rosies and the plague. Ashes! Ashes!

Pro - sorta means for, that’s progress when moving forward.
Con, as everyone knows is imperfect, so it isn’t good to be conned.
Now, If progress means to move forward what does congress mean?

But after you pause and figure out the clause, you’ll notice a pedagogue through the fog., Rather than move back you are on the right track to the end of this encounter.

A cupid little poem with commercial insight, is aimed at cupidity as a notion. But if done imperfectly done, and sex has not won, concupiscence is the motion.

To be simply put, concupiscence is – as well as “is” is the notion – any desire which sets one on fire without God’s consent to the motion. It isn’t as if, the mind is a bore – and God is the lock and the keeper, but ignore the outcome and go with the flow, and soon the results are a problem.

I dunno, seems a bit long for CCD… 😃

Oren,

In what way would you think it makes more sense if concupiscence didn’t exist?
 
Hi Oren, basically God wants you to cooperate in your santification process,

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

2 Peter 1

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Be encouraged, we all are in the same boat, working together.

or as red green would say, Keep your stick on the Ice.
 
I know this is an old thread, but I think it’s an issue worth further examination… why does concupiscence remain after baptism?
Verbum_Caro said:
Oren,

Concupiscence remains because God allows it to remain. Baptism could have conceivably removed concupiscence (and death!) but in God’s providential design it does not.

The Council of Trent in Session V gives us this reason:

VC
Click to expand...
Christ has transformed suffering and death from a punishment into a gift - the means to eternal life. Our death will become our resurrection; but what does concupiscence bring? How has it been ‘sanctified’ by Christ? As far as I understand, it mitigates the guillt associated with sin but at the same time increases our tendency to sin… I don’t understand why or how there is any benefit to us either way.

Can anyone shed some more light on this?
 
Neithan said:
I know this is an old thread, but I think it’s an issue worth further examination… why does concupiscence remain after baptism?

Christ has transformed suffering and death from a punishment into a gift - the means to eternal life. Our death will become our resurrection; but what does concupiscence bring? How has it been ‘sanctified’ by Christ? As far as I understand, it mitigates the guillt associated with sin but at the same time increases our tendency to sin… I don’t understand why or how there is any benefit to us either way.

Can anyone shed some more light on this?
Click to expand...
To me it has to do with the will. God wants us to willfully choose Him. Sin, whether Adam’s original sin or personal sins that followed, is to choose something other than God as the highest good. Until our wills are perfected, i.e. we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength-no longer with even the potential of placing anything above Him-and our neighbor as ourselves-we’ll still struggle with concupiscence -and so we’re still in the process of conversion/justification.

Adam willfully fell and with him all mankind. We must, with Gods grace, willfully rise. When we’re willing to give up that which attracts us over God we’ll know for ourselves why we’ve chosen Him as the highest good and our perfection will be complete and order restored to creation. God never overrides man will as a general rule-and sin is the choice man made-and the very thing which separates us from Him and brought us death.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top