Why converting Muslims is taboo in the Catholic Church

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Elizium23

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Why converting Muslims is taboo in the Catholic Church

The comments by the archbishop in here just made me stop and say “wow.” They are very insightful and reveal how we are regarded and treated in that part of the world. Likewise, I know it is difficult for Americans to separate in our minds “being Arab” from “being Muslim”.
"But since, he added, “The Muslims do not see the difference between Christians and Westerners, because they do not distinguish, themselves, between what is religious and what is political and social. What precedes the Westerners is perceived by the Muslims as preceding the Christians. Now, Western behaviour, especially on the cultural and political level and in a general way, harms the religious and national sensitivity of the Muslims, their values, their ethics and their culture. Consequentially, this forms an obstacle to their openness to Christianity and to their possible evangelisation.”
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In fact, he explained, “The majority of Muslims are convinced that the relaxing of mores, the exploitation of weak and poor peoples, the disdain of the Muslim religion that they feel from Westerners, comes from Christians. What can be done to stop the Muslims from confusing Christianity and the West, Christians and Westerners, and to not feel ridiculed and frustrated? The Synod, in its configuration of new evangelisation, should lean towards this question, to learn how to avoid, as much as possible, tensions and misunderstandings and what to do so that the Muslims may be more receptive with regards to the Church and to the Gospel.”
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interesting post. I think we sometimes fall to understand Islamic view of things and that unlike any other religion, Islam is very much a political and cultural religion. It does not allow any reformation since its 7th century founding. Muslims themselves don’t recognize any separation between their religion, political state and culture. They would see things like Hollywood and its morals as a sign of Christian morals which we know is not. Western cultural moral decline is a sign of the West leaving its Christian roots. Likewise, there are few Muslim converts because there is death threats to Muslims who leave the faith. One seminar put on by Protestants in Virginia featuring Muslim converts to Christianity had to get police protection for its speakers. Religious statements that are made by political authorities in Muslim countries are completely compatible with Islamic theology. Maybe this Bishops frustration in reaching out to Muslims is that there is little dialog or can be like there is with other religions and faith. It’s all or nothing and attempts at dialog have failed because in Islamic theology, you either submit to Allah and his prophet or you are an infidel.
 
One thing I admire about Muslims is that they do not have a separation of public and private life. They glorify Allah in totality and put him above human laws when forced to choose between state and God.

When I hear about people supporting things like abortion for the sake of “not imposing beliefs” on others I just feel like pulling out my hair. What do you think that Jesus would say about that? Does not help that courts rule in favor of legalism rather than what is bloody obviously just so that even a child knows that it is wrong. A homeless man going to jail for years for stealing hundred dollars and a billionaire stealing billions but getting only months because of a slick lawyer is injustice to me!

For the sake of “rationality” many people ignore their conscience. I wish there were a Catholic state. The west is becoming purely secular and I do not agree with the alternatives available to the west.
 
Well, apparently it’s so taboo to talk about converting Moslems that only 3 people even wanted to comment on this.

Well, Islam is the second biggest faith next to Christianity. So, we are going to need to know how to convert them. I think it’s hugely important, and I wish other people on this forum realized how important it was too. As Catholics we all need to know how to address this HUGE issue: Islam.
 
Elizium23 said:
Why converting Muslims is taboo in the Catholic Church

The comments by the archbishop in here just made me stop and say “wow.” They are very insightful and reveal how we are regarded and treated in that part of the world. Likewise, I know it is difficult for Americans to separate in our minds “being Arab” from “being Muslim”.
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With respect, the archbishop ignores the main reason for Muslim resistance . A contempt for Christianity. And he seems to forget the reason for the battles of Lepanto and Malta. To be humiliated by the West has been a bitter pill, but it is more like the feeling of white Southerners toward the North after the War, a hatred that was vented on the blacks, a race which THEY held in contempt.
 
i was in a taxi cab and asked the driver abotu god and he told me he was muslim, i accepted that we both have the god and found joy in that, but beyond that i failed to evengalize primarily because i am not good at it espiecally against islam

but a good way of looking at islam and i read this on here i believe, or some site ,

its like watching tv and we both are seeing god in the tv (not litarelly this is a illustration), they are getting a blurred vision, so what they see and bleieffve or read in to is different but the source is still god… that is the best way ive looked at it ,

i dont know my overall stance on islam either whether they are peaceful or not, and i had a tough conversation with my friend who compared the islamic jihad to the christian crusades, again i commented with some good stuff but still weak in this respect
 
pwlj_christ87 said:
i was in a taxi cab and asked the driver abotu god and he told me he was muslim, i accepted that we both have the god and found joy in that, but beyond that i failed to evengalize primarily because i am not good at it espiecally against islam

but a good way of looking at islam and i read this on here i believe, or some site ,

its like watching tv and we both are seeing god in the tv (not litarelly this is a illustration), they are getting a blurred vision, so what they see and bleieffve or read in to is different but the source is still god… that is the best way ive looked at it ,

i dont know my overall stance on islam either whether they are peaceful or not, and i had a tough conversation with my friend who compared the islamic jihad to the christian crusades, again i commented with some good stuff but still weak in this respect
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I would suggest you do some research in this area. I believe it is important to have an open mind, be very cautious of the materials you read (make sure you’re using reliable sources), but also have a mind set in apologetics as this may prove to be very beneficial to you in the future. Remember prayer and love are the ultimate weapons used to win the hearts of men. Most converts are won over by the love that we display, not the arguments.
 
Semper_Zelare said:
Well, apparently it’s so taboo to talk about converting Moslems that only 3 people even wanted to comment on this.

Well, Islam is the second biggest faith next to Christianity. So, we are going to need to know how to convert them. I think it’s hugely important, and I wish other people on this forum realized how important it was too. As Catholics we all need to know how to address this HUGE issue: Islam.
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20,000 Americans are converting to islam each year. Islam is on track to being “the” largest religion in the very near future. I say we begin preparing our children for persecutions and martyrdom.

Please, everyone, learn more about the Islamic view of the end times.
 
I do missionary work in Tanzania. The local bishop there is very keen on converting Muslims and those who follow the African tribal religions.

Tanzania has some really interesting regulations on prostelization ( which is one of the big reasons there is little religious infighting there)

But he is doing it by having the best schools and by being the primary source of medical support.

Only about half of the students in his schools are actually Catholic. But in there, the students have to learn about Catholicism.

His main thrust is that it is rather difficult to convert adults, one of the biggest reasons is that the Muslim and Tribal males are unwilling to give up multiple wives, or the possibility of having multiple wives. When you get them as kids in the schools, it is substantially easier.

So yes, the conversion process is well under way, just not as much in the Arab world.
 
RobbyS said:
With respect, the archbishop ignores the main reason for Muslim resistance . A contempt for Christianity. And he seems to forget the reason for the battles of Lepanto and Malta. To be humiliated by the West has been a bitter pill, but it is more like the feeling of white Southerners toward the North after the War, a hatred that was vented on the blacks, a race which THEY held in contempt.
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Instead of comparing this to the civil war and it’s aftermath, the is a fatwa against anyone leaving Islam for something else. It is prescribed in the Koran that there is death to anyone who would leave. There has been contempt for Christianity from the start then Islam burst out of Arabia and started conquering their surrounding neighbors and offered convert, become a second class over taxed quasi-slave or death. Yes, there is bitterness of Lepanto and Malta and the Sept 11 lose at Vienna but contempt for people of the book runs much deeper and has always been there.
 
Brendan said:
I do missionary work in Tanzania. The local bishop there is very keen on converting Muslims and those who follow the African tribal religions.

Tanzania has some really interesting regulations on prostelization ( which is one of the big reasons there is little religious infighting there)

But he is doing it by having the best schools and by being the primary source of medical support.

Only about half of the students in his schools are actually Catholic. But in there, the students have to learn about Catholicism.

His main thrust is that it is rather difficult to convert adults, one of the biggest reasons is that the Muslim and Tribal males are unwilling to give up multiple wives, or the possibility of having multiple wives. When you get them as kids in the schools, it is substantially easier.

So yes, the conversion process is well under way, just not as much in the Arab world.
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thank-you for your work in Tanzania and for your Bishop there! It is a capital crime to leave Islam in any Muslim countries, that is why you do not see many conversions. If the leave, they risk their lives.
 
DeSanto said:
20,000 Americans are converting to islam each year. Islam is on track to being “the” largest religion in the very near future. I say we begin preparing our children for persecutions and martyrdom.

Please, everyone, learn more about the Islamic view of the end times.
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I completely agree. I mean, just look at Nigeria. What is the Catholic Church doing? turning the other cheek in the face of persecution.

What are the moslems doing? Killing Christians. Sure, maybe not all of them are, but the Salafists are and that’s all that matters. Islam has been about violence, submission, and political domination since its inception.

Our culture teaches us to be tolerant of all views. But, the Catholic Church does not. As a Catholic, I am intolerant of Communism, Secularism, and Islam. These ideologies are dangerous. These ideologies lead to the death of Christians. I judge ideologies on their merits. So, because Jews and Bhuddists can live in peace with Christians, I respect them.

It doesn’t appear that Moslems can live in peace with Christians. Correct me if I’m wrong.
 
Semper_Zelare said:
I completely agree. I mean, just look at Nigeria. What is the Catholic Church doing? turning the other cheek in the face of persecution.

What are the moslems doing? Killing Christians. Sure, maybe not all of them are, but the Salafists are and that’s all that matters. Islam has been about violence, submission, and political domination since its inception.

Our culture teaches us to be tolerant of all views. But, the Catholic Church does not. As a Catholic, I am intolerant of Communism, Secularism, and Islam. These ideologies are dangerous. These ideologies lead to the death of Christians. I judge ideologies on their merits. So, because Jews and Bhuddists can live in peace with Christians, I respect them.

It doesn’t appear that Moslems can live in peace with Christians. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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The same allegations have been made towards us plenty of times, you know. One could go on for days about the atrocities committed by religious people in the name of yet contradicting their religion.
 
robwar said:
thank-you for your work in Tanzania and for your Bishop there! It is a capital crime to leave Islam in any Muslim countries, that is why you do not see many conversions. If the leave, they risk their lives.
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No thanks necessary, it’s something that I enjoy.

Fortunately, Tanzania is not a ‘Muslim’ country. It is just about evenly split, 1/3 Muslim, 1/3 Christian (mostly Catholic) and 1/3 Tribal religions. The coastline is primarily Muslim ( with the island of Zanzibar being about 98% Muslim. The north and west are predominatly Catholic, due to Belgian missionaries coming east from the Congo, with some Lutherans due to the 19th status as a German colony, and Anglicans due to the post WW-I take over by the British.

The southern areas are mostly tribal religions. The area I go to is about 50% Catholic, 40% tribal and about 10% Muslim

The government has taken a keen interest on squashing any sectarian violence. They ahve seen what it has done in other parts of Africa and want no part of it. That means that active prosteliztion is out, but so are any reprisals if a person willing converts.
 
robwar said:
Instead of comparing this to the civil war and it’s aftermath, the is a fatwa against anyone leaving Islam for something else. It is prescribed in the Koran that there is death to anyone who would leave. There has been contempt for Christianity from the start then Islam burst out of Arabia and started conquering their surrounding neighbors and offered convert, become a second class over taxed quasi-slave or death. Yes, there is bitterness of Lepanto and Malta and the Sept 11 lose at Vienna but contempt for people of the book runs much deeper and has always been there.
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Not many Americans know anything about the history of Islam. An Italian should. Should, but almost no Americans. I remember standing in the museum at Toledo one December morning many years ago, look at the huge banner that graced Don Juan’s flag ship. I have mentioned this to many educated Americans. I get blank looks. But they knew a little bout the American Civil War.
 
TeenageConvert said:
The same allegations have been made towards us plenty of times, you know. One could go on for days about the atrocities committed by religious people in the name of yet contradicting their religion.
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When Christians commit violence, it contradicts our religion. I believe that is also the case for Jews, Buddhists, etc.

Is that the case for Islam? Does committing violence contradict Islam? Violence seems to be the rule when it comes to Islamic history, not the exception. And, I’m pretty sure the terrorists can find scriptural justification for violence in the Koran. Just look at Muhammad… his life is held up as the “perfect example”, and he led many raids against pagans/ Jews, whoever.

If Muhammad killed people, how can killing your enemies be viewed as bad by Moslems? That’s what their “prophet” did. If he is the perfect example, then doesn’t his example justify violence?

Obviously, the Christian parallel is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Sure, you can twist the Bible to justify violence. But, you can’t say that Jesus killed anyone, murdered anyone, or was violent. Jesus Christ was the perfect example, not Muhammad. Jesus was without sin, Muhammad was a sinner (even by the Moslem’s admission btw).

My final point is: if you can go on for days about atrocities committed by religious people which CONTRADICT their religion, then you sure wouldn’t be talking about Islam.
 
Semper_Zelare said:
When Christians commit violence, it contradicts our religion. I believe that is also the case for Jews, Buddhists, etc.

Is that the case for Islam? Does committing violence contradict Islam? Violence seems to be the rule when it comes to Islamic history, not the exception. And, I’m pretty sure the terrorists can find scriptural justification for violence in the Koran. Just look at Muhammad… his life is held up as the “perfect example”, and he led many raids against pagans/ Jews, whoever.

If Muhammad killed people, how can killing your enemies be viewed as bad by Moslems? That’s what their “prophet” did. If he is the perfect example, then doesn’t his example justify violence?

Obviously, the Christian parallel is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Sure, you can twist the Bible to justify violence. But, you can’t say that Jesus killed anyone, murdered anyone, or was violent. Jesus Christ was the perfect example, not Muhammad. Jesus was without sin, Muhammad was a sinner (even by the Moslem’s admission btw).

My final point is: if you can go on for days about atrocities committed by religious people which CONTRADICT their religion, then you sure wouldn’t be talking about Islam.
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it depends on the majority sect in that area for violence to occur usually against a minority.
it does not matter in any way in those instance(s) is what the minority is (whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc…) for “retribution” to happen sadly.

as Matteo Ricci said “you have to become part of the culture in order to change the culture”

Shalom
God Bless
 
aragonjohn1 said:
it depends on the majority sect in that area for violence to occur usually against a minority.
it does not matter in any way in those instance(s) is what the minority is (whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc…) for “retribution” to happen sadly.

as Matteo Ricci said “you have to become part of the culture in order to change the culture”

Shalom
God Bless
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Fine, I accept that. But it doesn’t refute anything I said about Islam, which is the subject of this thread.

I accept that it might be human nature that when in the majority you are likely to persecute the minority. Fine, that is human nature. But, Islam does not call Moslems to rise above that. Muhammad was violent, why should Moslems be non-violent when their prophet was?

At least Judaism and Christianity call their followers to live righteously, even though they might fall short. Sure, Jews, Christians, and Moslems have all persecuted people. But, I posit to you, and to this thread that Islam encourages persecution. Persecution is part of Islam, it is in the Koran, it is in the life of Muhammad. Persecution is not part of Christianity or Judaism, it is not something we’re called to do by the Bible, and it most certainly is not in the life of Jesus who was without sin.

If Catholics were to start killing people tomorrow, the Pope and Catholic leaders everywhere would denounce them (the IRA). When Moslems start firing missiles at Israel tomorrow, they are going to be praised by Islamic clerics across the Moslem world.

What say you?

Pax vobiscum.
 
Semper_Zelare said:
Fine, I accept that. But it doesn’t refute anything I said about Islam, which is the subject of this thread.

I accept that it might be human nature that when in the majority you are likely to persecute the minority. Fine, that is human nature. But, Islam does not call Moslems to rise above that. Muhammad was violent, why should Moslems be non-violent when their prophet was?

At least Judaism and Christianity call their followers to live righteously, even though they might fall short. Sure, Jews, Christians, and Moslems have all persecuted people. But, I posit to you, and to this thread that Islam encourages persecution. Persecution is part of Islam, it is in the Koran, it is in the life of Muhammad. Persecution is not part of Christianity or Judaism, it is not something we’re called to do by the Bible, and it most certainly is not in the life of Jesus who was without sin.

If Catholics were to start killing people tomorrow, the Pope and Catholic leaders everywhere would denounce them (the IRA). When Moslems start firing missiles at Israel tomorrow, they are going to be praised by Islamic clerics across the Moslem world.

What say you?

Pax vobiscum.
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I completely agree with you it is just sad that there are people who Get hurt when in fact that should not happen.

Shalom
God bless you on you’re journey
 
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