Why couldn't the Church...Marriage question

[hudson]

How come the Church couldn’t validate Marriages at the time of Marriage. That way people know that there is no chance that their Marriage isn’t valid. Is there something that can happen during the Marriage that can cause this not to work? I thought an annulment stated there was never a valid Marriage in the first place. So why not validate them from the beginning?

 

[srferdave]

A valid marriage consist of 3 things. God and husband and wife. The priest performs the actions necessary to validate a marriage. But if either husband or wife did not do their part in participating in the marriage than it isn’t valid because one of the aspects of marriage is not present. Lying to husband about not being able to have children is an example of not doing your part to make the marriage valid.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

And various psychological issues that might later be found to have prevented one party from giving valid consent would likely not manifest themselves until some time had passed.

 

[valentino]

He’s right.Sometimes a person is forced into marriage by say parents.That would be a cause for invalidity also.

 

[Corki]

All marriages perfomed in the Church are valid unless and until proven otherwise. When a priest witnesses a marriage he is saying it **is valid **based on the facts available at the time. Part of the required marriage prep is to find out as many of those facts and influences as possible. It is only if something comes to light later that a marriage would be investigated.

 

[Garyjohn2]

They do their best to validate the marriage before hand. (the priest that is). He asks if there are previous marriages, if it is the couples’ free will, ect ect.

Still, there are some things you can’t just dig up or force people to answer. The priest cannot see into someone’s heart, or see if they are lying!

 

[puzzleannie]

How come the Church couldn’t validate Marriages at the time of Marriage. That way people know that there is no chance that their Marriage isn’t valid. Is there something that can happen during the Marriage that can cause this not to work? I thought an annulment stated there was never a valid Marriage in the first place. So why not validate them from the beginning?

bingo
that is what marriage preparation is supposed to be all about
you know, the same preparation that people complain about so strenuously because it is “not pastoral” and “makes people jump through hoops.” No there is no way to mount a full scale formal legal investigation with witnesses in every case, we could not afford it. Can you see telling engaged couples it will last a year or more?

the couple as it is must supply affidavits of free status from witnesses who know them, undergo psychological testing that tries to uncover problem areas so they can be addressed, meet with sponsor couples to learn Catholic teaching on marriage and how to successfully deal with conflict and so forth.

What further preparation do you suggest that will insure a marriage does not break down? If you find a recipe, bottle and sell it, you will make a fortune and probably win a nobel prize.

 

[Fink]

Its not a valid marriage until its consummated.
Impotence (permanent) at the time of the wedding would make it invalid.

 

[agapewolf]

Its not a valid marriage until its consummated.
Impotence (permanent) at the time of the wedding would make it invalid.

The first part is not true. A marriage is valid at the time of vows. It is indissoluable once its consummated.

but this is not really part of the discussion.

 

[Seatuck]

How come the Church couldn’t validate Marriages at the time of Marriage. That way people know that there is no chance that their Marriage isn’t valid. Is there something that can happen during the Marriage that can cause this not to work? I thought an annulment stated there was never a valid Marriage in the first place. So why not validate them from the beginning?

What do you mean by “validate”? It rests upon the couple along with the priest but mainly the couple to do the discernment about whether they are ready for marriage or not. Better education is key. Families are in such disarray these days that children are not growing up with any knowledge of truly good marriages. Without doing serious psychological studies on people I don’t know how the church would be able to “validate” a marriage prior to the wedding.

 

[x1980x]

What do you mean by “validate”? It rests upon the couple along with the priest but mainly the couple to do the discernment about whether they are ready for marriage or not. Better education is key. Families are in such disarray these days that children are not growing up with any knowledge of truly good marriages. Without doing serious psychological studies on people I don’t know how the church would be able to “validate” a marriage prior to the wedding.

What I think the OP is asking about is whether or not, at the time of Catholic Marriage, the couple and priest can all “agree” to waive grounds for annulment.

e.g.:

Priest: "Ok, so what we are agreeing is that even if it turns out that either of you believes that the Church has the power to dissolve a sacramental marriage, that the marriage will still be valid, right? And if it turns out later that you did not fully intend to live a faithful marriage, then the marriage will still be valid and you do waive any and all right to an annulment? And if it turns out that your parents coerced you into this, then the marriage will still be valid and that no claim of nullity may be asserted?

Bride: “Yes. Whatever the circumstances, this marriage has to be valid.”

Groom: “I agree.”

 

[Corki]

What I think the OP is asking about is whether or not, at the time of Catholic Marriage, the couple and priest can all “agree” to waive grounds for annulment.

e.g.:

Priest: "Ok, so what we are agreeing is that even if it turns out that either of you believes that the Church has the power to dissolve a sacramental marriage, that the marriage will still be valid, right? And if it turns out later that you did not fully intend to live a faithful marriage, then the marriage will still be valid and you do waive any and all right to an annulment? And if it turns out that your parents coerced you into this, then the marriage will still be valid and that no claim of nullity may be asserted?

Bride: “Yes. Whatever the circumstances, this marriage has to be valid.”

Groom: “I agree.”

First of all, an annulment is not the dissolution of a sacramental marriage.

Second, making such an agreement might itself make the marriage invalid.

Other than lack of form issues, most marriages that are investigated by the tribunal were flawed due to some problem that wasn’t known to the priest or even to both spouses at the time of the marriage. If they don’t know about it, they can’t validate it.

FWIW, there is a movement in some states to voluntarily agree at the time of the marriage to forgo “no fault” rights. There is also a movement within the Church for couples to be required to follow canon law on civil divorce. Many couples today separate without the approval of the bishop or for reasons other than those allowed by the Church.

 

[eegardner]

If marriage preparation sessions are done properly and all parties are 100% honest then this could be possible.

However as some have said, if someone is not honest about something, maybe hiding a previous marriage, maybe one of them are pretending to be a baptized Christian just to please the other one. Or a forced marriage that one is afraid to admit to. If these or something else is hidden from the priest, he can only act with the knowledge that he has been given. He would believe the marriage is valid and the ‘ceremony’ (I purposely did not say marriage) would happen. If this information comes out later, the marriage would be found out as never being valid.

 

[Corki]

If marriage preparation sessions are done properly and all parties are 100% honest then this could be possible.

However as some have said, if someone is not honest about something, maybe hiding a previous marriage, maybe one of them are pretending to be a baptized Christian just to please the other one. Or a forced marriage that one is afraid to admit to. If these or something else is hidden from the priest, he can only act with the knowledge that he has been given. He would believe the marriage is valid and the ‘ceremony’ (I purposely did not say marriage) would happen. If this information comes out later, the marriage would be found out as never being valid.

Even so, there will be weddings celebrated with flaws that no-one even knew about. One of the grounds is mental illness. Many illnesses are incremental with diagnosis coming years after the wedding but the illness actually beginning before the wedding. Same thing with alchoholism.