Why couldn't the Crusaders keep control of the Holy Land?

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  1. If it was really God’s will (“Deus vult”) why weren’t the Crusaders allowed to keep control of Jerusalem? Wouldn’t it have been easier for Christianity to spread, and to suppress the teachings of Mohammed?
  2. Did people really believe that Pope Urban II declared the Crusades in accordance with God’s will? Is it true that the Pope exclaimed that “Christ command’s it (the Crusade)”? fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html
  3. How come the Muslims have a better reputation of being more merciful than the Christians? Also, how could the Crusaders have justified the killing of all non-Christians?
 
  1. simply because it wasnt.
  2. they obviously did.
  3. because muslims allowed christians and jews under certain conditions. and jews were INITIALLY better off among the muslims than the christians. crusaders only massacred the people of jerusalem, otherwise in other cities they let them go. Like in nicaea, the muslim family of the turkish chief was given a royal treatment after they were captured and set free without hassle. Jerusalem suffered a massacre because they instead of surrendering they allowed the siege to conclude into the storming of their city.
 
Wouldn’t it have been easier for Christianity to spread, and to suppress the teachings of Mohammed?
maybe if the europeans had been preoccupied with the middle east, it would have been the muslims who landed in the new world. and all filipinos including yours truly would have been muslim now. thank god i’m not muslim. 😃

so yeah its good that the jews ended up getting that bloody holy land. 👍
 
The answer to the OP’s question is a long and complex one. There was much infighting and division in the Crusader camp. The modern concept of military discipline did not exist then and all of the four leading princes had self-interest that impacted, to a greater or lesser degree, the overall mission.

In addition, there was much distrust among the various ethnic groups which comprised the Crusader armies, further dividing them.

Feudalism, which is not well understood today, did not exert a unifying influence on the dozens of different groups. As a consequence, the Crusading armies became yet even more divided and distrustful.

In fact they were never a coherent fighting force. Their early victories can be attributed to their better armor weapons and numbers, but once the Turks and Saracens got organized and realized what they were up against, this disunity became a fatal flaw.

But there are so many other factors involved in the defeat; shortsightedness, lack of military intelligence, poor judgment, underestimating the enemy, a narrow focus on tactics without considering strategy and so on.

To gain a better understand of this monumental and crucial failure, I suggest Hillaire Beloc’s book, The Crusades. It is an enjoyable and easy read.
 
rpp,

the ancient Israelites were probably not as prepared as the Crusaders were, yet they were able to overrun the pagans. The difference between them failing or not was God. If God was not with the Israelites they wouldn’t have made it to the promised land.

Maybe the Crusaders thought that they would be helped in the same way. Maybe the Muslims did too of course!

If God willed the apparently “Holy” Crusades, Christians would have won. Maybe the Crusaders didnt have the holiness that God wanted.
 
rpp,

the ancient Israelites were probably not as prepared as the Crusaders were, yet they were able to overrun the pagans. The difference between them failing or not was God. If God was not with the Israelites they wouldn’t have made it to the promised land.

Maybe the Crusaders thought that they would be helped in the same way. Maybe the Muslims did too of course!

If God willed the apparently “Holy” Crusades, Christians would have won. Maybe the Crusaders didnt have the holiness that God wanted.
It is often a myth that the Crusades were a complete failure for the Christians. While they were not able to maintain the Kingdom of Jersusalem, they were able to stop the invasion of Constantinople by the Muslims, at least for a few hundred years. They also were able to establish a new code of tolerance for religion in the Holy Land. Previous to the Crusades Muslims often spread religion by the sword, burning churches, synogogues, etc. Also, the zeal of the Crusades would only continue thorughout Europe, to a point where Spain, Sicily, and other European lands were reconquered by the Christians. The Crusaders failed to keep the Holy Land, but they succeeded in protecting mainland Europe, by destroying much of the Islamic Empire’s wealth and military. Otherwise, this empire would of very well swept past Constantinople, Greece, Eastern Europe, and possibly Western Europe.
 
“ignatius insight”? that sounds biased. the site is very catholic. they would obviously try to whiten up bad records.
I havent looked at the link yet, but yeah, Im not so sure if their information will be “unbiased”.

Doesn’t necessarily mean they will be inaccurate, though.
 
“ignatius insight”? that sounds biased. the site is very catholic. they would obviously try to whiten up bad records.
Perhaps you should focus on the author rather then the title of the website to determine bias. It quotes “Thomas F. Madden is Associate Professor and Chair of the Department of History at Saint Louis University. He is author of A Concise History of the Crusades and co-author of The Fourth Crusade.”
Perhaps you should give the only school of history a chance, rather then a secular, modernist school that arose from the enlightenment. Clearly, this is not the only school that exists. Secular historians put their own twist on history just like many other people.
 
I havent looked at the link yet, but yeah, Im not so sure if their information will be “unbiased”.

Doesn’t necessarily mean they will be inaccurate, though.
Maybe I should not have said unbiased. While that is a possibility, that real reason I posted this site was to introduce an academic who finally has given evidence in support of the Crusaders. It gives light to a people who are often highly criticized, unrightfully, by the modernist historians that dominate our textbooks and historical books.
 
Christians would have won.
The crusades was a lot more beneficial than harmful.
  • united europeans against a common foe, instead of them killing each other.
  • made it possible for europeans to rediscover their rich past.
  • gave europeans access to eastern wisdoms/tech.
  • improved european trade routes.
  • distracted the moslem world long enough that the Mongols were able to stab their back. greatly diminishing moslem effectiveness.
for me, the christians lost the battle but won the war. 👍
 
  1. If it was really God’s will (“Deus vult”) why weren’t the Crusaders allowed to keep control of Jerusalem? Wouldn’t it have been easier for Christianity to spread, and to suppress the teachings of Mohammed?
  2. Did people really believe that Pope Urban II declared the Crusades in accordance with God’s will? Is it true that the Pope exclaimed that “Christ command’s it (the Crusade)”? fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html
  3. How come the Muslims have a better reputation of being more merciful than the Christians? Also, how could the Crusaders have justified the killing of all non-Christians?

A lot of reasons:​

  • Lines of supply, length of, excessive
  • past defeats, causes of, failure to learn lessons from
  • generalship, poor
  • the brutality of the crusaders gave their opponents every reason to avod defeat, since they could reckon with being slaughtered if captured
  • **the “crusaders” were thugs & bandits, younger sons with no prospect of inheriting anything, adventurers, riff-raff with a taste for blood. As was shown by the pogroms that punctuated the progress of these holy men in the Rhineland in 1096. They slaughtered the Jews there, & that any survived was no fault of the crusaders; they killed as many as they could. **
  • **- so it was not very surprising that their grandsons slaughtered Orthodox Christians; & then set up their own Emperor & a Latin Patriarch. The Orthodox got rid of them in 1261 - but by that time, Byzantium was permanently weakened, so it was unable to make the defence against the Ottomans that it would have, if the Venetian-led barbarians had not sacked & debilitated it 😦 **
    **The crusaders deserve as much praise as the Waffen SS: none. The SS fought with enormous resolution & courage - but no one praises them for their soldierly qualities, because they were murderers & criminals as well; their virtues served an evil cause. Likewise the crusaders. **
 
  1. If it was really God’s will (“Deus vult”) why weren’t the Crusaders allowed to keep control of Jerusalem? Wouldn’t it have been easier for Christianity to spread, and to suppress the teachings of Mohammed?
  2. Did people really believe that Pope Urban II declared the Crusades in accordance with God’s will? Is it true that the Pope exclaimed that “Christ command’s it (the Crusade)”? fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html
  3. How come the Muslims have a better reputation of being more merciful than the Christians? Also, how could the Crusaders have justified the killing of all non-Christians?
  1. Maybe because it was not God’s Will?
  2. I don’t know what people believed then; I wasn’t “back then”.
  3. I don’t know; I actually didn’t know they did have a better rep! From the Jewish point of view, both Muslims and Christians have had shoddy reputations in how they treated us (though I will admit that when the Muslims ruled Spain, we were treated great, but when the Christians took over, that was when many of us were told, “Be baptized or die/be expelled”.)
I will say that some good things arose out of the Crusades. It helped open trade routes to the East, and indirectly led to the discovery of the New World.
 
  1. simply because it wasnt.
  2. they obviously did.
  3. because muslims allowed christians and jews under certain conditions. and jews were INITIALLY better off among the muslims than the christians. crusaders only massacred the people of jerusalem, otherwise in other cities they let them go. Like in nicaea, the muslim family of the turkish chief was given a royal treatment after they were captured and set free without hassle. Jerusalem suffered a massacre because they instead of surrendering they allowed the siege to conclude into the storming of their city.
I agree with Agnos, because there was no such thing called “Holy War”. All wars are mistakes. There must be a certain hidden agenda for any of such war.

I don’t believe that any Pope ever issue a blessing of any war within his ex-cathedra power. Out of his personal thinking as an ordinary human, may be.
 
I once read what I thought was an interesting take, at least as to #3. At the time of the early crusades, both Europe and the Middle East were feudal. Notwithstanding modern Islamic mythology, European feudal lords took the place of Muslim feudal lords. The local Arabs were not entirely happy with their Seljuk conquerers and didn’t resist with the strength they might have. Neither Arab nor (some) Seljuk nor Christian feudal leaders had any motivation to really oppress the ruled (who would till the fields and press the grapes?) who consisted in Muslims, Jews and Christians. The ordinary people didn’t much care who the feudal rulers were, as long as they played their role decently and competently.

In point of fact, on a feudal level, Muslim and Christian leaders and forces were often friendly, and often allies.

But feudalism, both Christian and Muslim, met a different kind of force. Turkic Mamluks took over Egypt from the relatively friendly Arab ruler there. At about the same time, the Mongols invaded from the East. For a time, Christians and Arabs began to form an alliance to fight the Mongols. The Mamluks, who wanted to rule the whole, wouldn’t have it and drove the Christians out of Palestine. Allied, then, with Arab forces, the Mamluks defeated the Mongols who, however, had pretty much wiped out Islamic civilization everywhere they went.

Later, the Ottomans took over Asia Minor and were a very powerful group. Then Timur and his Central Asians swept in and destroyed what was left of the Middle East. Timur nearly defeated the Ottomans, but didn’t quite get it done. The Ottomans ultimately took over the whole of Middle East except for Persia and completed the devastation

The Middle East was, by then, utterly laid waste; not by Europeans but by Central Asians; Mamluks, Ottomans, Mongols, Tatars. It happened because elite feudal forces, both Christian and Arab Muslim, could not deal with the massive “total war” forces of the Central Asians, being hugely outnumbered.

As it happened, though, the Ottoman/Timur war played a big role in letting Byzantium dodder along for awhile, as did the Crusades themselves. The Fourth Crusade was a bad chapter, but until then, Byzantium gained from them.

In my opinion, it is incorrect to claim that the Fourth Crusade fatally weakened Byzantium and caused its later fall to the Ottomans. The Franks who conquered Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade numberd about 10,000. The Ottoman army that eventually took Constantinople numbered about 200,000. If Constantinople was too weak to defend against 10,000, it would have had no chance against the final Ottoman assault either, and didn’t. By then, the Ottomans also had cannon, which the earlier Franks did not.
 
I don’t believe that any Pope ever issue a blessing of any war within his ex-cathedra power. Out of his personal thinking as an ordinary human, may be.
If it was spoken ex-cathedra that means the papacy is not infallible then.

The Pope may have thought he was speaking with authority from God. They are chilling words by Pope Urban II: “Christ commands it” If those words were not intended to be spoken with authority from God, what are they? See below as well.
…On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.
fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

We, as Christians can’t criticise the certain Arab and Asian Muslims who despise Westerners, after all our spiritual forefathers hated them. It would be hypocritical.
 
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