Why Debating With Jehovah's Witnesses Doesn't Work

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DonCameron

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Why Debating With Jehovah’s Witnessed Doesn’t Work

The recent experience with Jaded27 helps to explain why I personally don’t recommend debating with Jehovah’s Witnesses about what the Bible does or doesn’t teach. One of the frustrating reasons is because of the phenomenon that is explained in the book “When Prophecies Fail”… "

We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart [which Witnesses do]; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief [which Witnesses have], that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it [which Witnesses have done]; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence,** unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before."
While it seems easy to see this phenomenon happing to Jaded27, it is likely that she sees it applying to the Catholics on this Forum… As a result, what happened? Both sides end up “even more convinced of the truth of their beliefs than ever before.”

But there is another reason I try not to get into ‘I’m-right-and-you-are-wrong’ about the Bible’s teachings. This is because it isn’t what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe about the Bible that has made them captives of a concept. Rather, it is what they believe about the Watchtower Society that has done it.

In order to escape this concept they need to come to realize that what they believe about the Watchtower Society (i.e. that it is God’s organization) is not true before they can allow themselves to begin to consider that what they believe about the Bible may not be true. This is the usual way it works.

We’ve observed how Jaded27 views herself as the teacher and everyone else on this Forum as students. She didn’t come her to have anyone teach her anything. She was hoping that she might be able to teach everyone else what she believes to be the truth about her religion.

In my book I suggest trying to take advantage of the Witnesses’ desire to do the teaching in the hope that in the process of them trying to teach others that the Watchtower Society is God’s organization, they may teach themselves that it isn’t. It’s a matter of getting them involved in teaching the right subject.

Don at www.CaptivesOfaConcept.com

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DonCameron:
We’ve observed how Jaded27 views herself as the teacher and everyone else on this Forum as students. She didn’t come her to have anyone teach her anything. She was hoping that she might be able to teach everyone else what she believes to be the truth about her religion.
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I already explained why I came here and it wasn’t for that. Try actually reading my posts.
 
I am glad you are staying, we do have very strong feelings about the Watchtower. Some of the people here have had a lot of interaction with Jehovah’s Witnesses and some are trying to learn more.

If anyone is mis-representing the Watchtower publications feel free to correct them and show where the mis-representation was done.

We are always happy to show where the Catholic faith is being mis-represented and do not take it as an attack on us, unless someone calls us names or something.(attacking the person rather than discussing beliefs)

God Bless
Scylla
 
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scylla:
I am glad you are staying, we do have very strong feelings about the Watchtower. Some of the people here have had a lot of interaction with Jehovah’s Witnesses and some are trying to learn more.

If anyone is mis-representing the Watchtower publications feel free to correct them and show where the mis-representation was done.

We are always happy to show where the Catholic faith is being mis-represented and do not take it as an attack on us, unless someone calls us names or something.(attacking the person rather than discussing beliefs)

God Bless
Scylla
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I’m not staying. And I"ve already tried discussing all this. Everyone just wants to hate JWs so I will continue to let you. It just proves my point further - “and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations”. Now watch everyone say “oh we dont’ hate JWs” just so I won’t be right. :eek:
 
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Jaded27:
I’m not staying. And I"ve already tried discussing all this. Everyone just wants to hate JWs so I will continue to let you. It just proves my point further - “and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations”. Now watch everyone say “oh we dont’ hate JWs” just so I won’t be right. :eek:
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A Jehovah’s Witness’s inability to accept the facts about the Watchtower and the lies the organization teaches does not make me hate them. It makes me feel sorry for them. 😦

None are so blind as those who will not see.
 
originally posted by Jaded27
“and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations”.
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Do you actually have *anything, anything *at all you wish to discuss? Your persecution complex is getting rather old.
You seem to have convinced yourself that we “hate” (most overused word in the lexicon) jws and are all out to be mean to you personally.
We have asked you, repeatedly, to state a particular topic you would like to discuss.
We are still waiting.
 
Jaded27,

I said…

We’ve observed how Jaded27 views herself as the teacher and everyone else on this Forum as students. She didn’t come her to have anyone teach her anything. She was hoping that she might be able to teach everyone else what she believes to be the truth about her religion.

In response you said…

I already explained why I came here and it wasn’t for that. Try actually reading my posts.

Here are a couple of things I read in your posts that gave me the above impression…

Obviously if I look at comments like this I can see that none of you are interested in learning anything. I tried. Bye.

And…

Most of you people are far too arrogant to try to teach anything to.

These comments still look to me that you view yourself as the teacher and everyone else on the Forum as students who are ‘not interested in **learning **anything’ you have to teach because we are “too arrogant to try to teach anything to.”

I still think it is fair to say that Jehovah’s Wtnesses view themselves as the only true teachers of the Bible, and everyone else on earth as potential students. The only time they view themselves as students is when “God’s organization” is the teacher.

Isn’t that about how you feel?

Don
 
Jaded27 -

May I suggest that quiet possibly, the JWs and Catholics are both experienced in the problem of persecution? That neither faiths are immune to this. As you may be percieving in this forum, the “criticisms” you are encountering in terms of your goal of getting the truth out about the Witnesses, the Catholics experience the same thing from other non-Catholic brethren about our Faith.

We all desire the truth in discussions with each other. Some of the truths that are well-documented and proven on this forum and in other resources about the JWs may be hard to swallow for you. But please try and approach these with an open mind and heart. I feel that the people who have responded to you deep down do not want to condemn you. They’ve responded to your posts with charity and sincerity. If you poll any one of the members of this forum, you will see that this is true.

Like someone said to you before, God is working His graces upon you. Very rarely do we find someone who is still fully in the faith of the JWs here online - so there are many reasons why people would like to contact and respond to you. Be thankful that God has placed these graces in your life, and if you ever want a more deeper, spiritual, devotional life, I can’t think of any other place than the Catholic Church.

God bless you, and we hope to see you soon. 👍
 
Actually, I think you’ve only got part of the story there. The JWs are so brainwashed with the ‘sheep and goats’ idea and are repeatedly told that those who reject their ‘truth’ just didn’t have ‘the right heart condition’. Anything and anyone that tries to turn them from the path is from Satan and even entertaining those thoughts is not allowed. It is called ‘free-thinking’ and that’s a no-no and the product of a rebellious spirit. Reading of non-JW material is discouraged or simply not allowed. One can get disciplined for it. They could even get disfellowshipped for attending the service of another religion (since these are all from Satan and dangerous to their spiritual thinking). Anyone who is not a JW is ‘of the world’ and a ‘bad association’. (Their language is very loaded!).

Also heavily advanced is that they can expect to be persecuted as Satan doesn’t want them to stay good JWs. Therefore, any attempt to explain your beliefs and get them to understand it, is seen as persecution and is a sign that they are on the right track.

It’s all so carefully worked out. Basically, any attempt to reason with JWs serves to reinforce their beliefs because of the way they view it’s origin.
 
It makes me sad that Jaded seems to be intent on leaving here, as there was very little if any comments that could be considered rude. Unfortunately Witnesses are conditioned to notice any disagreement with the Watchtower as persecution.

This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t state the truth and be direct about it, but it does mean we should word things in order for our intents not to be twisted around. I am looking at the responses it is surprising how quickly a persecution complex came about in these threads.

This is nothing like what is seen in the Catholic discussions, anything from idol worshipping Catholics to the words doctrines of men get thrown around all the time.

Hopefully Jaded sees that some of us did enjoy talking to her and wanted to discuss and come to better understandings of truth. Truth is easy to defend, is just takes some looking into, that is the point I hoped to convey to her, but unfortunately she might be quitting as it is very hard for Witnesses to even think of examining the Watchtower. I will just pray for her and work on being a better Christian to my friend the Witness, who I am going to call tomorrow.

God bless
Scylla
 
When I got serious about my walk with Christ and was in the middle of spending Great Lent in an Antiochian Orthodox Church I reached out to my parents after years of us just spitting bile at each other. The conversation of course turned to matters of faith quickly. My dad, an elder in the JW’s, would just spew JW rhetoric without thought to being challenged. When I did challenge him I received more enforced angry rhetoric back. Specifically speaking here is his (and the JW assertion) view that Christianity became corrupted at the first Council of Nicea in AD 325 with the insertion of the pagan belief in the Trinity. I just would not concede to his position and I refused to back down or allow him to continue to say things like that unchallenged. He told me I was apostate (again) and that he would sever our relationship again if I continued to back up my position. I told him I would not back down and if talking about matters of faith was too volatile then we should not. So now we don’t. My relationship with my parents is plastic at best. Our communication is limited to emails back and forth if I initiate them. I have not seen them in 24 years. I agree with the title of this thread “Debating With Jehovah’s Witnesses Doesn’t Work.”
 
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b_justb:
My relationship with my parents is plastic at best. Our communication is limited to emails back and forth if I initiate them. I have not seen them in 24 years. I agree with the title of this thread “Debating With Jehovah’s Witnesses Doesn’t Work.”
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I am sorry.

How true the Lord’s words are.

Matthew 10:34-36
34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
35 For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’

Beebs
 
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Beebs:
I am sorry.

How true the Lord’s words are.

Matthew 10:34-36
34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
35 For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’

Beebs
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Thank Beebs. It’s OK, honest. When I was a young 20-something it tore me up pretty good. But I am A-OK now as I watch my grey hair come in and my belly go out.

I have to admit that many Scriptural passages befuddle me, and this one from Mt 10 is one that is high on the befuddlement scale for me personally.
 
Over the summer, I had a series of visits from the JWs. I enjoyed talking with them, but it soon became really clear that they had no interest in listening to me; rather, their intention was to come and teach me their theology. Many times I would object to their beliefs about the Trinity and the authority of the Watchtower, but to no avail. I was particularly baffled when they tried to explain to me their beliefs concerning 1914 and how to calculate that date using all kinds of passages from the Old Testament and New Testament. Anyway, I’m glad that they came because it definitely made me stronger in my own faith as I was forced to go study it. And as a former Protestant and soon-to-be Catholic (Easter 2006), I absolutely enjoyed the opportunity to share my newfound faith in the Catholic Church. 🙂
 
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David123:
Over the summer, I had a series of visits from the JWs. I enjoyed talking with them, but it soon became really clear that they had no interest in listening to me; rather, their intention was to come and teach me their theology. Many times I would object to their beliefs about the Trinity and the authority of the Watchtower, but to no avail. I was particularly baffled when they tried to explain to me their beliefs concerning 1914 and how to calculate that date using all kinds of passages from the Old Testament and New Testament. Anyway, I’m glad that they came because it definitely made me stronger in my own faith as I was forced to go study it. And as a former Protestant and soon-to-be Catholic (Easter 2006), I absolutely enjoyed the opportunity to share my newfound faith in the Catholic Church. 🙂
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Welcome Home. 😃

God Bless

Beebs
 
I dont know why catholics?

But if you look at history the pope is leading armies in the name of jesus christ! You wanna be a part of that?

I am no jew jw or any other relgious person but catholic is really a crime!
 
Welcome to the forums Shurek, I don’t believe that that really is a part of Catholic doctrine, it might be part of history as the Church has been around for 2000 years.

The Catholic faith might surprise you with it’s depth and teaching. It actually is all about Jesus and what is the meaning of life.

God Bless
Scylla

Sure there have been bad Catholics, the Church is filled with sinners and saints.
 
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shurek:
I dont know why catholics?

But if you look at history the pope is leading armies in the name of jesus christ! You wanna be a part of that?

I am no jew jw or any other relgious person but catholic is really a crime!
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Welcome to CAForums. Please read the forum rules. For your first post to say “…but catholic is really a crime!” is going to get you noticed by moderators quickly. Relax, breath, pull up a bean bag and sit a spell.
 
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