Why Dec. 25?

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If there are any errors, I don’t see them. I went to the site you mentioned in post #18, and the information there is fascinating. The interpretation of Revelation is very difficult, and I’m not knowledgeable about it.

The Church does not say what the exact date of Jesus’ birth is. We are free to entertain all sorts of theories as long as nothing contradicts the Magisterium.

God bless!
 
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marthax2:
The Catholic Encyclopedia: “The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date”
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm).

I like this theory because I like the idea of the celebration of the birth of the sun god being replaced by the celebration of the birth of the Light of the World. I found one reference to this feast as dies natalis Solis Invicti, which I think translates “day of the birth of the invincible sun god.”

Someone recently wrote a letter to the editor of my local paper claiming that Christmas is a pagan celebration because it was once a pagan feast. But that is just as untenable a claim as: if Christmas were ever replaced by a pagan feast (which in some quarters it has been) that would prove that the pagan observation was really a Christian one.
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The online version of the Catholic encyclopedia is way out of date. I think its the 1914 edition. The article uses Cumont as a source whose conclusions are widely discredited by historians today.

Nobody really knows for certain when Jesus was born but I can see why December 25 was chosen. Throughout history this was the time for celebration. The harvests were all in, food and drink abounded, and there was more free time. Plus the new wine would be ready by this time! I know my 200 litre stock is ready. :).
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
What is true is that the vast majority of them are coming to the conclusion that, whatever other reason there may be, the December 25 date for Christmas predates any Roman celebration of the Sol Invictus and has little or nothing to do with that.

Read any serious book on this subject that was written in, say, the last five years.
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You are incorrect. H.W. Crocker III’s book, Triumph: The Power and Glory of the Catholic Church, was published in 2001. He says that the date of the 25th was the date of the pagan celebration.
 
I always thought they put it there because it was during the darkest time of the year. You know, less light, cold; a time to remember the Light that came into the world at its darkest time, to give it hope.
 
Steve M:
You are incorrect. H.W. Crocker III’s book, Triumph: The Power and Glory of the Catholic Church, was published in 2001. He says that the date of the 25th was the date of the pagan celebration.
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Did he say whether it predated the Christian celebration? Sol Invictus was institued rather late by the emperor.Aurelian who reigned between 270-275 A.D.

Celebrations of various faiths tend to fall on similar dates if for nothing else but practical reasons. I.E. people had more time for themselves in winter and the equinoxes were considered special since times imemorial. The Jewish passover was calculated according to the spring equinox.
 
Ok, one more time:

No one can definitively rule out Dec 25 as the birthdate. Even if Constantine threw darts at a board to set the date, one cannot rule out serendipity–that is, the establishers got it right even if they were guessing with a little help from you-know-who. It is perfectly reasonable and not offensively outrageous to believe in a Dec. 25th birthdate.

Scott
 
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Grolsch:
Did he say whether it predated the Christian celebration? Sol Invictus was institued rather late by the emperor.Aurelian who reigned between 270-275 A.D.

I looked up in my Triumph by Crocker, page 51, and he says Constantine took the pagan Saturnalia and made it the official date for the celebration of Christmas.
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Grolsch:
The online version of the Catholic encyclopedia is way out of date. I think its the 1914 edition. The article uses Cumont as a source whose conclusions are widely discredited by historians today.

Thanks for this information!
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marthax2:
I looked up in my Triumph by Crocker, page 51, and he says Constantine took the pagan Saturnalia and made it the official date for the celebration of Christmas.
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Well saturnalia preceded Dec 25. I believe it was celebrated between Dec 17 and 23. Even the Catholic encyclopedia dismisses that connection. However, it could be a source of some of the customs which are associated with the Christmas/ Advent season. People still held on to their customs even into the Christian era, especially the raucousness. All good fun. 🙂
 
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Grolsch:
Well saturnalia preceded Dec 25. I believe it was celebrated between Dec 17 and 23. Even the Catholic encyclopedia dismisses that connection. However, it could be a source of some of the customs which are associated with the Christmas/ Advent season. People still held on to their customs even into the Christian era, especially the raucousness. All good fun. 🙂
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The date December 25 was the birthdate of Mithra (and various gods). The celebration and customs, come form the celebration of saturnalia, which was basically a fertility celebration, thus it was celebrated like Mardi Gras.

I’m now gone for the holidays. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
 
Steve M:
The date December 25 was the birthdate of Mithra (and various gods). The celebration and customs, come form the celebration of saturnalia, which was basically a fertility celebration, thus it was celebrated like Mardi Gras.
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Our new fallacies are post hoc and similis hoc.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Steve M:
The date December 25 was the birthdate of Mithra (and various gods). The celebration and customs, come form the celebration of saturnalia, which was basically a fertility celebration, thus it was celebrated like Mardi Gras.

I’m now gone for the holidays. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
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You are conflating Sol Invictus with Mithra. Sol Invictus or the “unconquerable sun”, instituted in 270 A.D., was celebrated on Dec. 25. While there was some syncretism between Sol Invictus and Mithra, they are by no means the same.
 
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