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angeltime
Guest
Pax et Bonum! “did God really have to?” I suppose He did, because He is PERFECT LOVE and this would be the best way to restore His Kingdom…angeltime[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
I struggle with the questions why did we crucify and torture Christ,
Why did Christ allow himself to be so tortured , injured and killed by man,
How are we ever worthy of this great pain of His Bitter Passion.
The only answer that I keep finding is Love.
Who could ever love that much and for the likes of us. But The Trinity
Why did Christ allow himself to be so tortured , injured and killed by man,
How are we ever worthy of this great pain of His Bitter Passion.
The only answer that I keep finding is Love.
Who could ever love that much and for the likes of us. But The Trinity
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angeltime
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Pax et Bonum! “have to”? It seems to me that God would have to in the sense He is a Power drivien with pure love and peace and this would constantly be seeking reconciliation - not by force, but by pure love and peace; a concern for His Creatures! angeltime[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]I thought i was being intelligent and answered the question, did God “have to”.
Upon reflection of the have to, i seem to recall something being said that God didn’t have to but choose to do so.Not sure if it was opinion or Church understand/teaching.
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grannymh
Guest
Obviously, you are not familiar with the first three amazing chapters of Sacred Scripture.I thought i was being intelligent and answered the question, did God “have to”.
Upon reflection of the have to, i seem to recall something being said that God didn’t have to but choose to do so.Not sure if it was opinion or Church understand/teaching.
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PJM
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PJM
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OK
We can agree on that, BUTCOULD God have accomplished it in a different manner?
GBY and thanks
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PJM
Guest
Completely agreeI thought i was being intelligent and answered the question, did God “have to”.
Upon reflection of the have to, i seem to recall something being said that God didn’t have to but choose to do so.Not sure if it was opinion or Church understand/teaching.
THANKS & GBY
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PJM
Guest
Great insight here.
And the LOVE flows from the fact that we ALONE in ALL of Creation can and DO emulate our very Creator God. Gen 1:26-27
So was this then the purpose of our existence; our own creation. The answer is in Isaiah 43 verse & & 21
Thanks and GBY
Patrick
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PJM
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grannymh
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Pardon my old age. I am lost. What in heaven’s name is the "it’?
Has anyone read Genesis 2: 15-17 which is basic for the reason of a Divine Incarnation?
If no one –
Does anyone know the Catholic teaching on the original friendship relationship between Divinity and humanity?
Has anyone read Genesis 2: 15-17 which is basic for the reason of a Divine Incarnation?
If no one –
Does anyone know the Catholic teaching on the original friendship relationship between Divinity and humanity?
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fbl9
Guest
It seems to me the question at hand is not why God brought about the redemption of mankind, rather could have He not brought redemption another way other then becoming incarnate.
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PJM
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Gen 2: 15-17
[15] And the Lord God took man, and put him into the paradise of pleasure, to dress it, and to keep it. [16] And he commanded him, saying: Of every tree of paradise thou shalt eat: [17] But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death"
OK
[stepping in as “anyone” here]BUT the greater question {i’m the OP], seems to be COULD GOD have done it differently?
GBY and THANKS
Patrick
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prodromos
Guest
On the Incarnation of the Word - by St Athanasius
The Word perceived that corruption could not be got rid of otherwise than through death; yet He Himself, as the Word, being immortal and the Father’s Son, was such as could not die. For this reason, therefore, He assumed a body capable of death, in order that it, through belonging to the Word Who is above all, might become in dying a sufficient exchange for all, and, itself remaining incorruptible through His indwelling, might thereafter put an end to corruption for all others as well, by the grace of the resurrection. It was by surrendering to death the body which He had taken, as an offering and sacrifice free from every stain, that He forthwith abolished death for His human brethren by the offering of the equivalent. For naturally, since the Word of God was above all, when He offered His own temple and bodily instrument as a substitute for the life of all, He fulfilled in death all that was required. Naturally also, through this union of the immortal Son of God with our human nature, all men were clothed with incorruption in the promise of the resurrection. For the solidarity of mankind is such that, by virtue of the Word’s indwelling in a single human body, the corruption which goes with death has lost its power over all.
The Word perceived that corruption could not be got rid of otherwise than through death; yet He Himself, as the Word, being immortal and the Father’s Son, was such as could not die. For this reason, therefore, He assumed a body capable of death, in order that it, through belonging to the Word Who is above all, might become in dying a sufficient exchange for all, and, itself remaining incorruptible through His indwelling, might thereafter put an end to corruption for all others as well, by the grace of the resurrection. It was by surrendering to death the body which He had taken, as an offering and sacrifice free from every stain, that He forthwith abolished death for His human brethren by the offering of the equivalent. For naturally, since the Word of God was above all, when He offered His own temple and bodily instrument as a substitute for the life of all, He fulfilled in death all that was required. Naturally also, through this union of the immortal Son of God with our human nature, all men were clothed with incorruption in the promise of the resurrection. For the solidarity of mankind is such that, by virtue of the Word’s indwelling in a single human body, the corruption which goes with death has lost its power over all.
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PJM
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PJM
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Excellent! THANKS
Our Pastor at tonight’s Mass, shared this
Cf: “The Divine choose to become like a man, BECAUSE He gives man the opportunity to become divine”
Father John Basco
GBY
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Prayer_Warrior
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Lots of good and thought-provoking stuff to ponder. Since the question about "could God have done it (salvation) differently has been posed by the OP, I have a few thoughts to share. On the one hand we have God’s will, and that everything is subject to His will-- in light of that, one could conclude yes, God could have done it differently. One drop of Jesus’s precious blood could redeem all of mankind if God so willed it. But I think that there are things in God’s nature that “drives” God’s will. Love is one of those things, but there is also God’s justice and wisdom. God’s justice demanded to be satisfied when man rejected God’s love and sovereignty, God’s love demanded that He do something to save His created people, but it was God’s wisdom demanded this particular plan of salvation. For reasons not fully known to us, the Incarnation, the Cross, the Resurrection, grace, faith, hope, love, and repentance is, in God’s eyes, the perfect plan. Would another plan have been more perfect? Personally, I doubt it-- or He would have done it. Just my :twocents:
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angeltime
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Peace…I just wondered that according to one’s life, experiences, work and needs, if Why Christ became Incarnate could be more personal to one - for example one reason more outstanding for them than another…afterall, we are working out our individual salvation…??angeltime[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
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