Why did Christ have to die for us?

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As I am about to head off to confession. Yay! I was thinking about things, and wanted to know what everyone thought the reason that Christ had to die for us was? Also, how did dying back then, actually save us here now, in this time?

Talk away!
 
St. Thomas Aquinas refers to the Incarnation (which includes the passion) as necessary insofar as it was the most fitting way to restore our souls, but was not necessary in the absolute sense, as the Almighty God could have restored our soul in many number of ways.

Here’s the reference, from the Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas:
A thing is said to be necessary for a certain end in two ways. First, when the end cannot be without it; as food is necessary for the preservation of human life. Secondly, when the end is attained better and more conveniently, as a horse is necessary for a journey. In the first way it was not necessary that God should become incarnate for the restoration of human nature. For God with His omnipotent power could have restored human nature in many other ways. But in the second way it was necessary that God should become incarnate for the restoration of human nature. Hence Augustine says (De Trin. xii, 10): “We shall also show that other ways were not wanting to God, to Whose power all things are equally subject; but that there was not a more fitting way of healing our misery.”

[ST, III, 1, 2]
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St. Anselm of Cantebury’s work Cur Deus Homo also described the necessity of the incarnation and death of Christ. In Bk II, chapter XVII, the following is affirmed: “How he did not die of necessity, though he could not be born, except as destined to suffer death.”

St. Anselm contrasts “necessity” with “voluntariness.” Jesus was not contrained to die, but gave up his life voluntarily. “For that is improperly called necessity which involves neither compulsion nor restraint.” (St. Anselm, ibid., ch. X).

Christ death was necessary in the sense that it was most fitting. It was not necessariy in the sense of compulsion, but completely voluntary. He laid down his life for us. It was not taken from Him.

How does his giving up of his life atone for our sins now? “Love covers a multitude of sins**.**” (1 Pet 4:8)
 
The following excerpt from Fr. Leo Trese’s book, The Faith Explained, may also be helpful:

To “redeem” means to buy back something that has been lost, or sold, or given away… Christ’s work of redemption was in the form of an act of infinitely perfect love, expressed in the act of infinitely perfect obedience that*** comprised his whole life upon earth. ***Christ’s death upon the cross was the climax of this act of obedience; ***all that went before Calvary, and all that followed after, was part of his sacrifice too.
Whatever God does is of infinite value. Because he was God, the very least of Christ’s suffering was sufficient to satisfy for man’s sin, sufficient to compensate for man’s rejection of God. The least chill suffered by the Infant Jesus in Bethlehem’s cave was enough to pay for all the sins that man could heap upon the other side of the scales… By the very fact that Christ’s suffering and death were so far beyond the price that really needed to be paid for sin, God has made unforgettably plain to us the twin lessons of sin’s infinite evil, and God’s infinite love for us…

For although Christ’s sufferings were sufficient to atone for every human sin, that did not mean that everyone automatically, would be freed from sin. It still would be necessary for each one, individually, to apply to himself the merits of Christ’s atoning sacrifice or, in the case of infants, to have them applied through Baptism by another.
 
Thanks for the responses, and they are very interesting. My father is, or was, in a class studying our faith, and actually came to me asking the same question I posted here. It gave me food for thought, and I had to do some research.

Our non-Catholic brothers and sisters have nothing to say on this? I would be interested in knowing what they think. Of course, if you are Catholic, still continue to post. 🙂
 
Hi Teneas,

A Jewish author asked the same question, in a book I read. So, awhile back, I started a Thread entitled, “Crucifixion of Christ-Why Did He Have to Die?”
Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=396746

There were 161 posts on the Thread. The prevailing opinion of why Christ had to die, was basically what itsjustdave1988 just posted, here.

Christ came, as God Incarnate; and walked among us, facing every temptation and overcoming all with a perfect life. Then, he laid down His life for us. There is no greater demonstration of love, than the sacrifice Christ made for us. God could accomplish the forgiveness of our sins in any way He chooses. As itsjustdave1988 said in his post, the sacrifice of Christ was “the most fitting” way to accomplish our salvation.

I’m still not sure I understand, entirely, the passages of Scripture where God said He desires mercy and not sacrifice–though there were some good explanations on the Thread. I welcome any thoughts you (or anyone) may have on that.
Anna_Scott said:
Crucifixion of Christ-Why Did He Have to Die?

A Jewish author posed a very important question which I have not been able to answer, and it bothers me that I cannot answer the question.

Question paraphrased:

If God is God, and He makes the rules, why did anyone have to die for our salvation?

I am a Christian, and I want to be able to answer this question. I believe that God is infinite and that He brought all things into being. So, there cannot be anything before God or any law higher than God. God must surely make the rules. So, I think it is reasonable to ask why Christ had to die.

The O.T. does reveal a point, when God seemed to no longer desire a sacrifice or blood atonement for sins.

Micah 6: 6 “With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? 7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?” 8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

Proverbs 21: 2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart. 3 To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Jeremiah 7: 22 **For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. **23But this command I gave them: **‘Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’
**
Even in the N.T. we find **Jesus quoting **Hosea 6:6:

Matthew 9: 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Hosea 6: 4 What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? Your love is like a morning cloud, like the dew that goes early away. 5 Therefore I have hewn them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth, and my judgment goes forth as the light. 6** For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.**

One of the most intriguing passages in the NT reveals Jesus agreeing that loving God and your neighbor is more important than “all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him. 33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This seems to be a very strange thing for Jesus to say, since he came as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins.

Also, throughout the NT, Jesus forgave sins. Not once did he tell those he forgave to go and make a sacrifice to complete the forgiveness.

In addition, John proclaimed Baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

**Luke 3: **2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1: 4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

So, I hope someone can help me answer this question:

If God is God, and He makes the rules, why did Jesus have to die for our salvation?
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God Bless,
Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Hi Teneas,

A Jewish author asked the same question, in a book I read. So, awhile back, I started a Thread entitled, “Crucifixion of Christ-Why Did He Have to Die?”
Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=396746

There were 161 posts on the Thread. The prevailing opinion of why Christ had to die, was basically what itsjustdave1988 just posted, here.

Christ came, as God Incarnate; and walked among us, facing every temptation and overcoming all with a perfect life. Then, he laid down His life for us. There is no greater demonstration of love, than the sacrifice Christ made for us. God could accomplish the forgiveness of our sins in any way He chooses. As itsjustdave1988 said in his post, the sacrifice of Christ was “the most fitting” way to accomplish our salvation.

I’m still not sure I understand, entirely, the passages of Scripture where God said He desires mercy and not sacrifice–though there were some good explanations on the Thread. I welcome any thoughts you (or anyone) may have on that.

God Bless,
Anna
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Thanks, it’s a good read for sure! Perhaps the mercy spoken of in the scriptures is exactly how Christ lead his life. Maybe, it was through his mercy during his living, and his mercy for our sins that the scriptures speak of, and therefore he lived granting mercy. The sacrifice vs the mercy thing is tricky from those scriptures posted, and I honestly can’t say that I know the answers.

Just my personal opinion, not Church teaching that I know of below

To me, the sacrifice that Christ made, was his showing how we are to live our lives. It did give us the Paschal Mystery to look to. We can now know that no matter what we encounter, Christ is with us. That Christ, God, himself suffered worse than most of us will ever be asked to. I look sometimes to the crucifix and think “I could do one night of torture, and three or so hours on the cross in exchange for what I have to go through”. Ultimately I am wrong however. I pray daily that I suffer here on earth, that I am allowed to embrace my cross, and share in the pain of sacrifice that Christ himself went through. It is through this suffering and pain that I gain insight into the suffering of others, and therefore can be merciful. I will readily admit that I am not nearly as merciful as I should be, just ask my wife specially if we are speaking about her friends, but I do try.
 
Teneas said:
Thanks, it’s a good read for sure! Perhaps the mercy spoken of in the scriptures is exactly how Christ lead his life. Maybe, it was through his mercy during his living, and his mercy for our sins that the scriptures speak of, and therefore he lived granting mercy. The sacrifice vs the mercy thing is tricky from those scriptures posted, and I honestly can’t say that I know the answers.

Just my personal opinion, not Church teaching that I know of below

To me, the sacrifice that Christ made, was his showing how we are to live our lives. It did give us the Paschal Mystery to look to. We can now know that no matter what we encounter, Christ is with us. That Christ, God, himself suffered worse than most of us will ever be asked to. I look sometimes to the crucifix and think “I could do one night of torture, and three or so hours on the cross in exchange for what I have to go through”. Ultimately I am wrong however. I pray daily that I suffer here on earth, that I am allowed to embrace my cross, and share in the pain of sacrifice that Christ himself went through. It is through this suffering and pain that I gain insight into the suffering of others, and therefore can be merciful. I will readily admit that I am not nearly as merciful as I should be, just ask my wife specially if we are speaking about her friends, but I do try.
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Beautifully said.

I will tell you, Teneas, I’ve seen some really disturbing posts on a few Threads lately. I needed something good and inspiring this morning. I am so glad I found this Thread.

As I sit in the quiet, and read these words, I am drawn near to Christ. There is no sweeter joy.

Anna
 
Many reasons have already been posted but there is one I didn’t see: as sin entered the world trough one man, eternal life also had to enter through one man. Even if we wouldn’t sin, we’d still have a fallen nature, and we couldn’t enter heaven. God can’t change our nature just like that, without our permission.

Also, if He wouldn’t have died for us, we couldn’t resurrect. The Father has the life, and as Jesus died in the Father and now has life, we also die in the Son and have life. If we died with Him we are also sure that we will resurrect with Him. Only the Son knows the Father and the Son reveals Him to whom He wishes. If Jesus wouldn’t have died for us, we wouldn’t know the Father, because only the Son can reveal Him to us. If we wouldn’t know the Father we wouldn’t have life and we would be dead in our sins. Jesus, by dying for us, He became the “ladder” through which angels ascend and descend from Heaven to Earth.
*
He had a dream in which he saw a ladder resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.* (Genesis 28:12)

He then added, "I tell you[a] the truth, you* shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.** (John 1:51)

[a]&** The Greek is plural.

The Father knows everything there is to know about us, but His greatest desire is for us to know Him.***
 
Cristian_B said:
Many reasons have already been posted but there is one I didn’t see: as sin entered the world trough one man, eternal life also had to enter through one man. Even if we wouldn’t sin, we’d still have a fallen nature, and we couldn’t enter heaven. God can’t change our nature just like that, without our permission.

Also, if He wouldn’t have died for us, we couldn’t resurrect. The Father has the life, and as Jesus died in the Father and now has life, we also die in the Son and have life. If we died with Him we are also sure that we will resurrect with Him. Only the Son knows the Father and the Son reveals Him to whom He wishes. If Jesus wouldn’t have died for us, we wouldn’t know the Father, because only the Son can reveal Him to us. If we wouldn’t know the Father we wouldn’t have life and we would be dead in our sins. Jesus, by dying for us, He became the “ladder” through which angels ascend and descend from Heaven to Earth.
*
He had a dream in which he saw a ladder resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.* (Genesis 28:12)

He then added, "I tell you[a] the truth, you* shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.*** (John 1:51)

[a]&** The Greek is plural.

The Father knows everything there is to know about us, but His greatest desire is for us to know Him.**

Cristian B,

Welcome to CAF!

I just visited your profile, and see that you are 14. You are expressing some very profound thoughts, beyond your years. May God continue to bless you. I hope you enjoy the forums.

Anna
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God is a very personnal Being and thus He is personnaly offended by those who sin against Him Christ loved the Father so much that he volunteered to do whatever was necessary to assuage the insult against Him. To appease his anger God desired the greatest expression of love that a man could give

The amazing thing about Christ’s sacrifice is that he was not required to do it. But he decided freely to give his life for us.

Christ could not volunteer to pay the legal price for sin, namely eternal damnation, for the sin was not his. He could only volunteer to make a personal propitiation on behalf of sinners.

In other words, Jesus **did not have to **die, but he **decided **to go to the cross because he loves us so much!
 
How many stories and movies tell the tale of a man/woman dying for their beloved? This is the dream that dwells in every human heart: to die for someone I love, and to have someone that loves me enough to die for me. It is written in our soul. This desire for unconditional love can only be traced to our creator. If our creator gives each person this desire, then He must be able to demonstrate and realize it. Truly He can and He did, by sending Jesus Christ His only Son to die for us, to become our hero, our redeemer, our love. God gives each heart a desire for true love, then He reveals the face of true love, which is Jesus Christ. Now is the time for us to believe, rejoice, and love back. If Christ has died for us, then it’s time now for us to die for Him. This is our ultimate romance, the dream of our heart. Let us not miss it.
 
Anna_Scott said:
Cristian B,

Welcome to CAF!

I just visited your profile, and see that you are 14. You are expressing some very profound thoughts, beyond your years. May God continue to bless you. I hope you enjoy the forums.

Anna
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Thank you! 🙂 God bless you as well, or even more than me. 😉
 
All existence has a duality; 2 sides [what is in heaven, so must be on earth].

It all started in the beginning…
  • Man(kind) was given dominion over all the physical world to reflect God’s dominion over all from heaven.
  • To sustain himself, man would eat of the tree of life, the tree that ***reflected ***God’s everlasting source of life which bares the firstfruits of life.
But there were some (angels) who did not believe man should have such authority

They believed that they should have authority since they were higher than man as beings. One angel believed so much in his own perfection that he wanted to prove man’s unworthiness - and thus God’s unworthiness (***reflected ***by his choice in man), so he was allowed to test them.

Disobedience = Sin = Unworthiness of Authority

The test was to see if man could follow one simple commandment. Man failed…and when he failed a snowball effect occured which was ***reflected ***in heaven and on earth…

Physical & Spiritual problems reflecting one another:

Physical: Man(kind) could no longer rightfully possess dominion over the physical world…

Spiritual: Because man lost his authority, it brought into question God’s authority (because man’s rule was decided by God).

Physical: Man’s connection to God (everlasting life) was severed, reflected by removal from the tree of life…immediately man began to physically die (like a fruit that is removed from its vine/branch).

Spiritual: Sin also equals imperfection, which (by default) can not be in the presence of God…so imperfection automatically brought with it spiritual death (the true curse).

Physical: The physical world was divided into nations in relation to the angels [Deuteronomy 32:8] “When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.” God also chose a nation for himself (Israel).

Spiritual: The angels gained authority (as established in a heavenly council or divine council), to see if they would do better, but they were also given rules to follow. [Psalms 81:1] “God stands in the assembly of gods; and in the midst of them will judge gods.”

[Ephesians 3:8] “To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; 10 that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. 11 This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord”

Dual Problems to Solve:
  1. So man(kind) must redeem himself and prove that he is worthy of the authority he was originally given in order to prove that God was right in his decision, and thus deservant of His Dominion…and only one seed of man is necessary for proof.
  2. The price of sin must always be paid. God did not curse us with death, but it is our own imperfection that causes us to waste away spiritually (reflected by physical death)…in time. So man needed a perfect way to ultimately pay the price, indefinitely.
During the early years, God’s chosen people (Israel) were required to sacrifice the life of a new born, pure blood lamb on the alter to pay the price of the sins of the people. This would happen at a set time every year by a consecrated High Priest. The price of sin must always be paid. But because man(kind) was always prone to disobedience/sin, the Accuser could continue to make his case, that “man is unworthy to possess the authority/dominion given, so God isn’t worthy of His”. And thus the Accuser could keep his newly acquired physical authority and eventually acquired heavenly authority. Not one man existed who could be completely obedient to the law of God.
God - having His plan prepared all along - orchestrated conditions and events that would create a royal bloodline of “near-obedient man” [Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, seed of David], from which His begotten Son can be born. Not only would the obedience of this single seed of man prove all of man’s worthiness to take back physical authority/dominion, but - also simultaneously being of perfection (Seed of God) - sacrificing this particular lamb would perfectly pay the spiritual wage of the sin curse (death) forevermore.

Spiritual Solution is Complete
When the Son of God returns, He will physically destroy sin and death and thus the…

Physical Solution will be Complete.
 
Hey Faithful27
Are you a Christian? Because your post sounds very gnostic to me…
 
BenBornAgain said:
Hey Faithful27
Are you a Christian? Because your post sounds very gnostic to me…
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I think you mean me (Joshua27)? If not let me know.

Gnosticism as I understand it is a belief that “physicality is evil” and a prison or that “matter is evil” and that the goal is “to release the spiritual element of a person from the bonds of physical matter”.

I do not believe this. I believe everyone is a soul (marriage of both physical and spiritual).

I think maybe you’re categorizing me with it simply because of my talk about “duality”…as Gnostics do reference duality for the purpose of their belief.
No I’m not Gnostic. But the truth is, we all believe in both parts, don’t we?..What is “sin” but **spiritual **disobedience brought on by actions we do day-to-day in our (physical) lives.

Many of us believe in souls or spirits, and at the same time we all experience death & funerals. We all believe that God created both “the heavens and the earth”. So there’s a connection to both…I wanted to share that connection.

The problem that Christ solved (in both his obedient Life and his perfect Death) is on a deeper level that many don’t pay attention to. This was the true will of the Father.

[Matthew 6:10] Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

I am a faithful follower of the life of Messiah as well as a follower of the Law of the Father. I’m a little uneasy about labels because so many have “stumbled” with the truth…and while it’s easy to understand where one comes from using a label/category, I think that’s become part of our problem in today’s world.
 
Wow…some really really nice posts out there on this. Duality I can get behind greatly. Sin does lead to death. nods

After reading all that I realize how small I am at times. A friend of mine, that happens to be a Franciscan, bet me once I wouldn’t wear a sign around my neck saying “All I truly know is nothing” Well, I did it, but every now and again I am reminded how little I know.

Keep em coming folks, nice read. 🙂 👍
 
Teneas said:
As I am about to head off to confession. Yay! I was thinking about things, and wanted to know what everyone thought the reason that Christ had to die for us was? Also, how did dying back then, actually save us here now, in this time?

Talk away!
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Please consider these verses:

1Cor.15

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

While Jesus did not have to die for us. If He didn’t we would still be in our sins and not worthy of resurrection unto eternal life. It is through Him and only through Him that we are freed from the bondage of sin and become acceptable in the eyes of God. In Matt26 we read after the last supper Jesus goes to the garden of Gethsemeny.
38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

43And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

44And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

45Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

It’s pretty clear to me from this passage that Jesus did not want to go to the cross. He prays three times to His Father to let this cup pass from Him. Do you think that Jesus prayer was heard by His Father? Of coarse it was. It’s just that the answer came back, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. It is only through the perfect life, death, and resurrection of Jesus that mankind is reconciled to the Father and He also imparts to us a ministry.

2 Cor.5

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 
I agree with the thought that Christ did not want to die, and would have gladly passed the torch or found another way, if there was another way to find.

I get great comfort in knowing that Christ had doubts, and even pleaded with his father to not let this happen to him. I have pleaded oh so many times to have something not happen, and yet God allowed it. Through Christ’s life we can gain many insights as to how to live through him, and with him.

It was his death that was the ultimate sacrifice for us. It was his life, and resurrection that was the ultimate teaching of how we should live.

I don’t know if you are familiar with the Paschal Mystery, most Protestants are not. I mean no offense in using that term however, just saying what you listed your religion as. The Paschal Mystery, in simple version, is the dying, rising and going forth that Christ did in his life. Therefore we embrace this as our way of living. We can encounter Christ, along with any Christian in my opinion, by recognizing our own small deaths, rising, and going forth.

Perhaps you have to stop smoking, it’s a small death in the grand scheme of things, but a necessary one. You stop, so you die unto yourself. You rise from that death, and move forward in life, to hopefully with smoking anyway live a better more fulfilled life.

Thanks for your comments, I welcome all. 🙂
 
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