Why did God allow Job to suffer?

[NextElement]

I have an atheist friend who I always seem to get in religious debates with, and his most common reason for not believing in God is the story of Job. These are his words, not mine, but I could use some help answering them:

He would like to know why God punished one of his most faithful servants? Why couldn’t God have just told Satan to go away, because he is so much more powerful than Satan? Why did he feel the need to “prove his power” to Satan by causing suffering to Job and his family? And why should we worship a God who causes suffering to those who are faithful to him?

Can anyone help me out?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The story of Job is the lesson of suffering triumphing over sin (defiance of God).

It is no wonder your atheist friend doesn’t like this story. Job is a faithful son of God.

The atheist thinks suffering is evil. It is actually a good that God allows so that we may see ourselves and others with greater clarity, and from that clarity acquire greater wisdom and virtue.

In my experience most atheists are also hedonists, and so the fact of human suffering, and the lessons to be learned from it, are repulsive.

 

[smetobo]

The Lord let Job suffer so that in him He could teach generations,more practically,that even in the worst circumstances “all things work for good for those that love God.”
Again Just like He did to Father Abraham,God gave Job an opportunity to demonstrate his great faithfulness and sure enough Job did it.over 2000yrs later,he’s so blessed and we’re still talking about his heroic endurance.How else would we for instance know we’re ‘merciful’ or ‘generous’ except that someone is in need?
God shows us more perfectly in Christ how He has the power to draw good. even out of evil.He knows it’s for a short while compared to His gift of eternal life in happiness,and He always provides sufficient grace to withstand all the suffering He allows anyone.

 

[ClearWater]

I have an atheist friend who I always seem to get in religious debates with, and his most common reason for not believing in God is the story of Job. These are his words, not mine, but I could use some help answering them:

He would like to know why God punished one of his most faithful servants? Why couldn’t God have just told Satan to go away, because he is so much more powerful than Satan? Why did he feel the need to “prove his power” to Satan by causing suffering to Job and his family? And why should we worship a God who causes suffering to those who are faithful to him?

Can anyone help me out?

God wasn’t “punishing” Job, nor trying to “prove his power”, but testing to see to what point Job would remain faithful.

 

[chefmomster2]

He would like to know why God punished one of his most faithful servants?

Punishment implies wrongdoing, but Job was a righteous man so this was NOT punishment. The suffering was inflicted upon Job by Satan.

8 The LORD said to the satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and avoiding evil.”

Why couldn’t God have just told Satan to go away, because he is so much more powerful than Satan?

He could have done that. But, the point of the story is the lesson it contains. It is not about any “need” of God. He needs nothing.

Notice that the devil actually seeks “permission” of God to perform this “test”.

9 The satan answered the LORD and said, “Is it for nothing that Job is God-fearing? 10 Have you not surrounded him and his family and all that he has with your protection? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock are spread over the land. 11 But now put forth your hand and touch all that he has, and surely he will curse you to your face.”

God is also able to limit the suffering. Both of these tell us that satan already acknowledges God’s power.

12
The LORD said to the satan, “Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on him.” So the satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Why did he feel the need to “prove his power” to Satan by causing suffering to Job and his family?

This is a literary composition, and not a transcript of historical events and conversations. God is not proving anything to satan except as part of the plot line of the fictional event. The writer is trying to teach a lesson about faith, trusting in the Lord, seeking the Lord, and the purpose of suffering.

And why should we worship a God who causes suffering to those who are faithful to him?

In this dramatic literary piece God DOES NOT cause the suffering. The devil persecutes Job and God allows it. Ultimately it is an expression of the strength of faith over evil provided we continue to behave in an upright way despite any suffering we endure trusting in God always.

Suffering happens for a variety of reasons, but they all stem from the presence of sin in the world.

And remember that God does restore Job in the end.

 

[ClearWater]

I have an atheist friend who I always seem to get in religious debates with, and his most common reason for not believing in God is the story of Job. These are his words, not mine, but I could use some help answering them:

He would like to know why God punished one of his most faithful servants? Why couldn’t God have just told Satan to go away, because he is so much more powerful than Satan? Why did he feel the need to “prove his power” to Satan by causing suffering to Job and his family? And why should we worship a God who causes suffering to those who are faithful to him?

Can anyone help me out?

If you wanted to speak to this friend on these issues, you would probably need to go back to Square 1. He doesn’t believe God exists, so that’s the point you would need to meet him at.

St. Thomas Aquinas had the 5 proofs for the existence of God. Also, here are 20 proofs for the existence of God by Peter Kreeft.

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm

 

[hu324b]

God had faith in Job that he would endure - it was a test of faith - God at some point tests all of us in our Faith in varying degrees - hopefully we don’t get tested to Jobs degree - God knew that Job was special in his faith and the devil envyed it as always - I will point out everything and more was restored to Job and I’m am sure Jesus called all those who died to heaven - so who lost? - the devil lost.

As living beings on this earth its hard not to think of this life as precious - life for most people is actually full of disappointment and unfulfilling - Its the next life that is precious as St Paul says run the race with you eye fixed on the prize of eternal life with God - all of us a some point only have our eyes fixed on this life and it is hard not to.

 

[rcwitness]

I have an atheist friend who I always seem to get in religious debates with, and his most common reason for not believing in God is the story of Job. These are his words, not mine, but I could use some help answering them:

He would like to know why God punished one of his most faithful servants? Why couldn’t God have just told Satan to go away, because he is so much more powerful than Satan? Why did he feel the need to “prove his power” to Satan by causing suffering to Job and his family? And why should we worship a God who causes suffering to those who are faithful to him?

Can anyone help me out?

He is sooo missing the beauty of one of the coolest stories in ancient history of the relationship with God and man even before the old Covanent and especially the New Covanent.

Job was a man who was perfect before God !!!

He had faith and followed his conscience (a God given grace which holds us from complete seperation with Him) to guide his morals. This troubled Satan. Satan was jealous of the mere human pleasing God and receiving blessing in doing so. But the cost of Godliness is to bear the burden of God!!! Satan attacks us because God has associated Himself so closely to us. His ultimate goal is to put God lower than Himself. When God showed that Job pleased Him but rejected Satan, this put Job directly in the cross hairs of Satan. But when God allowed Satan to take away the blessings He had given to Job, He did so to unite man in His effort to overcome Satan. Though, in the end we are still left wanting. We learn that no matter how good a man may be, there was still a need for the Messiah to come and bear the entire burden of God by a man.

So Jobs suffering is a testament of the unity God has shared with us by being attacked by the true enemy of God, who is Satan. And the attempt of Satan to reduce man to unworthy of God has only shown that God has indeed made us worthy.

Peace
Michael

 

[Bob_Crowley]

To me, the book of Job is fiction from start to finish. I also find it unsatisfactory, in that all God does in the end is point to His own power.

I thinkers it was Jung who made the caustic comment about God and Job saying “Was it worth the Lion’s while to terrify the mouse?”. I mean what’s in it for God?

But I suppose what could be learned from it is that sometimes God and Satan fight a proxy war using certain people as the battle field.

When the US and the USSR were squaring off against each other, they both knew they had nuclear MAD (mutual assured destruction). So there was no point in fighting an all out war. Instead there was a series of proxy wars - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Cuba and so on. The real heroes of those wars were not the string pullers in Moscow and Washington, but rather the people caught in the wars themselves - the local civilians, the servicemen on both sides, those caught up in the horror and often not understanding why it was all happening.

The heroes were not those in high places. As CS Lewis put it, the greatest sins are committed by men who sit in offices with clean hands.

Likewise in Job, neither God nor Satan come out as particularly heroic. If anything, they both come out as rather devious.

Job is the hero, even if he’s just a guinea pig caught up in a battle he doesn’t really understand.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Likewise in Job, neither God nor Satan come out as particularly heroic. If anything, they both come out as rather devious.

Job is the hero, even if he’s just a guinea pig caught up in a battle he doesn’t really understand.

Neither God nor Satan are supposed to come out as heroic. Job is the hero, as the book of Job makes abundantly clear. When you say Job doesn’t understand, I think maybe you have not read Job as he needs to be read. Job understands perfectly well that God is to be trusted in all adversity.

I read the book of Job last year when I thought I was on my deathbed in the hospital. If you have the chance to do likewise some day, you will see clearly that Job’s struggle is everyone’s struggle to be faithful and rely on God in the darkest moments of our lives, just as Jesus did in the Garden of Gethsemane.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Neither God nor Satan are supposed to come out as heroic. Job is the hero, as the book of Job makes abundantly clear. When you say Job doesn’t understand, I think maybe you have not read Job as he needs to be read. Job understands perfectly well that God is to be trusted in all adversity.

I read the book of Job last year when I thought I was on my deathbed in the hospital. If you have the chance to do likewise some day, you will see clearly that Job’s struggle is everyone’s struggle to be faithful and rely on God in the darkest moments of our lives, just as Jesus did in the Garden of Gethsemane.

The Book of Job is also commonly recommended for those suffering mental illnesses, including depression!

LOVE!

 

[delmo]

I think the Book of Job is one of the books that is not meant to be taken literally. I think I remember, although I may be completely wrong, reading online at some point that when the books are separated by genre, Job is placed into the poetry section.

In the past, whenever something bad happened to someone, people would think it was because they did something wrong, or perhaps their ancestor sinned so badly that even future generations were published. I think the point of the Book of Job was to say that this isn’t the case and that bad things can happen to good people. However these bad things are no reason to give up or denounce God because things can and will get better. At least, that’s how I see it; I could be way off.

I’d also remind your friend that the Bible is not a sole book, but a collection of books. And just like when grabbing a random book off a library shelf, it is important to know the genre in order to completely understand it.

 

[rcwitness]

I think the Book of Job is one of the books that is not meant to be taken literally. I think I remember, although I may be completely wrong, reading online at some point that when the books are separated by genre, Job is placed into the poetry section.

In the past, whenever something bad happened to someone, people would think it was because they did something wrong, or perhaps their ancestor sinned so badly that even future generations were published.** I think the point of the Book of Job was to say that this isn’t the case and that bad things can happen to good people. **However these bad things are no reason to give up or denounce God because things can and will get better. At least, that’s how I see it; I could be way off.

I’d also remind your friend that the Bible is not a sole book, but a collection of books. And just like when grabbing a random book off a library shelf, it is important to know the genre in order to completely understand it.

But another point no less important is that No matter how good we may be, we need God to bear our sorrows.

In the end, God strikes Job with the demand to account for the mysteries God has created and given to all in the land of the living.

Job 28:12,13,18

“But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? Man knoweth not the price thereof, neither is it found in the land of the living… For the price of wisdom is above rubies.”

This is one of my favorite passages in all Scripture!

Peace
Michael

 

[Thorns]

Punishment implies wrongdoing, but Job was a righteous man so this was NOT punishment. The suffering was inflicted upon Job by Satan.

8 The LORD said to the satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and avoiding evil.”

He could have done that. But, the point of the story is the lesson it contains. It is not about any “need” of God. He needs nothing.

Notice that the devil actually seeks “permission” of God to perform this “test”.

9 The satan answered the LORD and said, “Is it for nothing that Job is God-fearing? 10 Have you not surrounded him and his family and all that he has with your protection? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock are spread over the land. 11 But now put forth your hand and touch all that he has, and surely he will curse you to your face.”

God is also able to limit the suffering. Both of these tell us that satan already acknowledges God’s power.

12
The LORD said to the satan, “Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on him.” So the satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

This is a literary composition, and not a transcript of historical events and conversations. God is not proving anything to satan except as part of the plot line of the fictional event. The writer is trying to teach a lesson about faith, trusting in the Lord, seeking the Lord, and the purpose of suffering.

In this dramatic literary piece God DOES NOT cause the suffering. The devil persecutes Job and God allows it. Ultimately it is an expression of the strength of faith over evil provided we continue to behave in an upright way despite any suffering we endure trusting in God always.

Suffering happens for a variety of reasons, but they all stem from the presence of sin in the world.

And remember that God does restore Job in the end.

Awesome post.

 

[oldcelt]

To me, the book of Job is fiction from start to finish. I also find it unsatisfactory, in that all God does in the end is point to His own power.

I thinkers it was Jung who made the caustic comment about God and Job saying “Was it worth the Lion’s while to terrify the mouse?”. I mean what’s in it for God?

But I suppose what could be learned from it is that sometimes God and Satan fight a proxy war using certain people as the battle field.

When the US and the USSR were squaring off against each other, they both knew they had nuclear MAD (mutual assured destruction). So there was no point in fighting an all out war. Instead there was a series of proxy wars - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Cuba and so on. The real heroes of those wars were not the string pullers in Moscow and Washington, but rather the people caught in the wars themselves - the local civilians, the servicemen on both sides, those caught up in the horror and often not understanding why it was all happening.

The heroes were not those in high places. As CS Lewis put it, the greatest sins are committed by men who sit in offices with clean hands.

Likewise in Job, neither God nor Satan come out as particularly heroic. If anything, they both come out as rather devious.

Job is the hero, even if he’s just a guinea pig caught up in a battle he doesn’t really understand.

Agreed. No matter how you want to slice it, the God represented there allows his most faithful servant to undergo unspeakable horrors to make a point to Satan. God used one of His creation to show how much HE was loved…and He was showing it to His greatest enemy. Not a good representation for recruiting.

 

[oldcelt]

This is a literary composition, and not a transcript of historical events and conversations. God is not proving anything to satan except as part of the plot line of the fictional event. The writer is trying to teach a lesson about faith, trusting in the Lord, seeking the Lord, and the purpose of suffering.

Quote:
And why should we worship a God who causes suffering to those who are faithful to him?
In this dramatic literary piece God DOES NOT cause the suffering. The devil persecutes Job and God allows it. Ultimately it is an expression of the strength of faith over evil provided we continue to behave in an upright way despite any suffering we endure trusting in God always.

Suffering happens for a variety of reasons, but they all stem from the presence of sin in the world.

And remember that God does restore Job in the end.

There is the precise problem with the canon of the bible. How do you know what is a literary device and what is supposed history? The problem with Job is that God challenged Satan and then let Satan have his way…not a very good father.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The problem with Job is that God challenged Satan and then let Satan have his way…not a very good father.

I believe it is Satan who challenged Job to turn on God. By the grace of God, Satan lost the challenge.

As always, God is the good father!

 

[chefmomster2]

There is the precise problem with the canon of the bible. How do you know what is a literary device and what is supposed history? The problem with Job is that God challenged Satan and then let Satan have his way…not a very good father.

You know if you study the bible. Genre of the material is one of the important things we must take into account when reading it. Many bibles will have an introduction to each book telling you not only the genre of the scripture but much other pertinent information. I have a Catholic Study Bible (NAB-Revised) which has pages and pages of information such as that. In addition, our teachers and priests give us this information.

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DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION: DEI VERBUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 18,1965

Chapter 3: To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to “literary forms.” For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. (7) For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (8)

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The canon is a grouping of books that the early church determined to have been divinely inspired. They contain the great Truths of our doctrine and faith. They are not necessarily literal truths. Catholicism does not teach the Bible as literal fact.

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You have it backwards: Satan challenged God. More importantly, Satan did NOT have his way! **He wanted to see Job lose his faith. **He states at the beginning that Job only believed because God had given Him many good things in life. But, **Job’s faith overcame this trial. He was victorious! **God had known all along that Job had the strength to stand up to this trial. He wanted Job to know that! FAITH IS STRONGER THAN SUFFERING OR YOU DO NOT HAVE FAITH!

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You blame God for every evil perpetrated on earth, it seems to me. So I assume you credit Him with all good also?

 

[chefmomster2]

Agreed. No matter how you want to slice it, the God represented there allows his most faithful servant to undergo unspeakable horrors to make a point to Satan. God used one of His creation to show how much HE was loved…and He was showing it to His greatest enemy. Not a good representation for recruiting.

Job definitely suffered tremendously, but “unspeakable horrors”? God was not proving ANYTHING about how much He is loved. He is demonstrating the great power of FAITH! God needs NOTHING! Not to demonstrate His power or to have Satan believe it. I’m guessing Satan already found out about God’s power when he was swiftly moved to a very hot new home!

 

[oldcelt]

You have it backwards: Satan challenged God.

You are correct…my apologies for the poor writing. Beyond that is where the problem comes in…God let Satan torture one of his faithful to prove a point. As someone said before, the only hero here is Job. God and Satan come out as egomaniacs.

You blame God for every evil perpetrated on earth, it seems to me. So I assume you credit Him with all good also?

In reality, I do neither. I believe that God exercises no control on human affairs, but since this is a philosophy forum, it often becomes confusing when I point out the inconsistencies of the Abrahamic/Christian God.
I credit God with starting creation many billions of years ago. That eventually led to us through natural processes, not creation. That is what I believe.