Why did God allow Job to suffer?

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Aloysium said:
Back to Job;
Until he is tested, can he truly be said to be holy and to love God?
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He would have had to be holy to remain faithful under such testing.

It was the error of Job’s friends to have assumed that his great suffering was a sign of punishment for some evil he had committed.
 
tonyrey said:
Is there a good purpose in torturing children?
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Evil people torture children. Not God. Evil can never be acceptable even if it is intended for ultimate good. That is not what us meant by God making good out of evil. He doesn’t commit evil. It happens because of sin and free will. God is left with an evil situation. Rather than allow the evil to go unanswered He can intercede to create good out of what has happened.

For instance, a young child is murdered. Obviously evil. God considers it evil as do we. He might send His grace to the family of the child. Perhaps as a result of that grace they will save others by allowing their child to be an organ donor. Perhaps they will become victim’s advocates. Maybe they will teach children safety procedures to help keep this from happening to other little ones.

God does not allow the evil in order to create good from it.
God takes the evil that was committed by man and creates a good from it.
 
tonyrey said:
Is there a good purpose in torturing children?
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Finding a meaning in suffering is not the same as finding a good purpose.

I have a close friend who was imprisoned as a young adult by a paranoid military government. Besides the beatings, her torture included rape and burning. This occurred in what had been a hospital (adding to the absurdity and horror) and these sorts of activities were carried out 24/7; so all night one would hear the screams of tormented souls, not infrequently coming to an abrupt stop, presumably through death. Needless to say she has suffered from many decades of post-traumatic anxiety, depression and paranoia (which may be realistic given her experiences). I would say that I have met few people as a tender, considerate, and giving, without any air of pretense and, except for periods of time spent in dark basement corners or under her bed, as down to earth. She has attempted to overcome her experiences, to move beyond them, to connect with a view of the world as wondrous and essentially good, to promote love, all the while aware of the profound evil that surrounds and is potentially in all of us. I have learned a great deal through our talks. A number of years ago, her account evoked such an intense sense of pity, that it seemed to me that I was seeing her as God might. The experience carried with it an awareness of the suffering that each of us encounters in our lives and the various ways in which we respond to it. On the death of the tyrant who was behind the savagery, we discussed the funeral with all its pomp, laudatory speeches and twenty gun salutes. When she said it made her feel as nothing more than a small piece of dirt, it was as if the entire world flipped upside-down. Here was a person, a earthly nothing, barely appearing on the social radar whose existence was right there with Christ on the cross at the very Centre of creation, open to all eternity. This was as real as it gets. At the same time at the other pole, there existed these individuals, lost in shared lies and illusion, involved in all sorts of obscenities and crimes against man and God, true nothings in their lack of humanity, propping themselves and each other with empty vanities and the worldly power that comes from being a puppet to sin. What the world holds as valuable, in eternity is worse than trash, because it can destroy the soul. I believe she also felt like a piece of dirt because of that ugly feeling of gladness in seeing him dead. Since there is no other reality other than that which transpired, it is irrational to consider how things would have turned out otherwise. I wanted to describe a situation where great suffering, which unfortunately persists, has through the grace of the Holy Spirit and the person’s efforts at becoming a better person transforms and moves one closer to God. In the process, this spreads out into the world making it a better place.

One can transcend suffering so that a good ensues. This does not mean that the good is the cause and reason for the suffering.
 
Aloysium said:
Finding a meaning in suffering is not the same as finding a good purpose.

I have a close friend who was imprisoned as a young adult by a paranoid military government. Besides the beatings, her torture included rape and burning. This occurred in what had been a hospital (adding to the absurdity and horror) and these sorts of activities were carried out 24/7; so all night one would hear the screams of tormented souls, not infrequently coming to an abrupt stop, presumably through death. Needless to say she has suffered from many decades of post-traumatic anxiety, depression and paranoia (which may be realistic given her experiences). I would say that I have met few people as a tender, considerate, and giving, without any air of pretense and, except for periods of time spent in dark basement corners or under her bed, as down to earth. She has attempted to overcome her experiences, to move beyond them, to connect with a view of the world as wondrous and essentially good, to promote love, all the while aware of the profound evil that surrounds and is potentially in all of us. I have learned a great deal through our talks. A number of years ago, her account evoked such an intense sense of pity, that it seemed to me that I was seeing her as God might. The experience carried with it an awareness of the suffering that each of us encounters in our lives and the various ways in which we respond to it. On the death of the tyrant who was behind the savagery, we discussed the funeral with all its pomp, laudatory speeches and twenty gun salutes. When she said it made her feel as nothing more than a small piece of dirt, it was as if the entire world flipped upside-down. Here was a person, a earthly nothing, barely appearing on the social radar whose existence was right there with Christ on the cross at the very Centre of creation, open to all eternity. This was as real as it gets. At the same time at the other pole, there existed these individuals, lost in shared lies and illusion, involved in all sorts of obscenities and crimes against man and God, true nothings in their lack of humanity, propping themselves and each other with empty vanities and the worldly power that comes from being a puppet to sin. What the world holds as valuable, in eternity is worse than trash, because it can destroy the soul. I believe she also felt like a piece of dirt because of that ugly feeling of gladness in seeing him dead. Since there is no other reality other than that which transpired, it is irrational to consider how things would have turned out otherwise. I wanted to describe a situation where great suffering, which unfortunately persists, has through the grace of the Holy Spirit and the person’s efforts at becoming a better person transforms and moves one closer to God. In the process, this spreads out into the world making it a better place.

One can transcend suffering so that a good ensues. This does not mean that the good is the cause and reason for the suffering.
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👍 Precisely!
 
n.b. Without EFFICIENT GRACE Job would have turned his back and cursed God for his suffering.

Job was blessed with good health, family and material wealth. Job loved and served God with all that he was blessed with. When God let those things be taken away, Job was still loyal. Fidelity. Even Job’s FIDELITY TO GOD (IS THE GREATEST BLESSING) from God - efficient grace. Job is in eternal love, joy and peace worshiping the Trinity. 😃

The beatific vision.

All honor and glory belongs to God. 😉
 
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