Why did God allow the Protestant heresy to be successful?

[Katholikos]

“Success” depends on how it’s defined and measured and who is interpreting the data.

I think Protestantism has been splintering itself to death since it’s appearance in the 16th century. Example: The Lutheran Church that Luther started does not exist, and has been replaced by many others. Calvin’s church the same. And the beat goes on. The “Reformers” reformed nothing. The fastest growing segment of new churches are indepenedent of the “mainline” Protestant groups and have no ties whatsoever to historic Christianity (Newsweek, April 16, 2001). They’ve taken Sola Scriptura further than Luther ever dreamed.

Please – no fellowshipping at the Mass. Fellowship in the parish hall or outside the Church if you must. At Mass, the focus should be on the Sacrifice being offered on the altar, not on each other. The Catholic Church isn’t Protestant. Protestants fellowship, sing songs, pray, and listen to sermons. Catholics have been offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for the last 2,000 years and will offer it until the end of time.

Peace be with all who post at Catholic Answers.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

JMJ Jay

 

[ichabod]

bengal_fan:

the main “heresy” of protestantism is to deny the authority of rome. all others are negligible and the fact that this is the only difference maybe that is why it is allowed the success that it has had

I think that it’s great that you questioning and exploring. There’s one thing that I’d clarify (maybe I did a poor job earlier): there’s no one heresy in protestantism. I’ve heard it said from protestants themselves that they have their differences, but they agree on the important things, but they don’t agree on what the important things are. Some say the Nicene Creed during their “worship”, some believe in varying numbers of sacraments and their symbology, some even believe in a form of the Eucharist. Everyone has to look to an authority in interpreting the Word of God; but not everyone recognizes or admits whose authority they rely on.

I believe that God gives graces to those who seek Him with an open heart, and He gives to those no more than he/she can bear (I believe we usually fall short of our calling).

As Catholics, the examine the lives of the saints to serve as examples (“follow the footsteps of the saints and you will end up in heaven”). One thing I’ve found lacking in many of the newer protestant denominations is the lack of regard for “redemptive suffering” - those continual trials that challenge us to turn to God in deeper, more self-effacing ways. What would you call a “blessing”? Joy? Peace? Health? Financial security? Popularity? Riches? Power?

Christ did not come into the world to write a book or spout some pious words, He came to give meaning to our existence, to show that He knows pain and death in a very human way, and that they can be overcome. But do we really appreciate the suffering?

I would submit that one of the main problems of modern popular protestant denominations is that suffering has no place, except before one “finds Jesus”. I see crosses, but not crucifixes. Some say they are “worshipping the risen Jesus”, but why are they looking at an empty cross; why not an empty tomb? The cross without Christ is just a Roman torture device.

This may make you angry, but I have to reiterate that anything I say applies differently to the plethora of denominations out there; whatever I say will probably be wrong about some of them.

I see the success of blantantly heretical sects (e.g., Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons), and wonder why. I also see the mega-churches: the Christianity-lite churches like Calvary Chapel, and wonder where their real focus is. Since protestants believe everyone is qualified to interpret the word of God, why do we need preaching from pastors? Can’t anyone do it? Or do you rely on the authority of those who stand in the pulpit? Or those who teach bible studies(their interpretation of the bible)? Or those who receive “blessings”?

 

[1962Missal]

ichabod:

There’s one thing that I’d clarify (maybe I did a poor job earlier): there’s no one heresy in protestantism.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”. "The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are,therefore,two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church. The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness–free choice–is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one’s own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of “freely willed”.

 

[tjw163]

In my personal experience, I know that I did not come to know truly my own Catholic faith until I was challenged by Protestants. I knew enough to know that what they were telling me was not exactly the same thing as what the Catholic Church was telling me – especially with regard to sola fide. But I didn’t know enough to defend Church teachings, nor did I have the utmost confidence that the Catholic Church was right, and they were not.

So I did a lot of reading, and I came to realize how deep and how true the Catholic Church is. In my experience, Protestants provided me with a challenge that was close enough to Catholicism that I only had to research some of the disagreements people have with the Catholic Church. For example, it was a given with these Protestants that God exists, and that Jesus was the Son of God. So, for my studies, I did not feel there was an IMMEDIATE pressure to defend those beliefs – though I did research this, in order to simply make my faith MY OWN.

If I had never been challenged, I may never have felt a need to read up on Catholic doctrine, spirituality, and history. As a general observation, I would say that significant heresies have begun when the seed of faith lies dormant (or rather, choked by the thorns of a fattened heart) in the souls of Catholic men and women. Only in overcoming the heresy is the soil enriched to allow the seed of faith to grow in those who would otherwise be disinterested.

I hope this helps.

Blessings,
Tim

 

[larryo]

Free will warped by Original Sin. Protestantism may appear to be successful but is it really? Our Lord said that by their fruits you shall know them. What have been the “fruits” of the Protestant Deformation?

• Willful disobedience to the lawful Church authority established by Christ Himself, i.e., the pope and bishops
• Rugged individualism at the expense of the poor and less fortunate
• Sola scriptura where every man becomes his own pope and every doctrine is interpreted every way possible
• Failure to worship God as God intended through the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist
• Easy divorce and remarriage
• Splintering off into non-Christian movements such as Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses
• Watered-down spirituality

Protestants did not reform the Church. They left the Church and destroyed its unity. Protestants failed to trust in the Holy Spirit and the promise of Jesus that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. Like Adam and Eve, it comes down to a lack of humility and a failure to obey. It’s unfortunate that so many good Protestants have been led astray over the centuries by misguided, ignorant shepherds. This does not mean that Protestants are bad and Catholics are good, for we all know that there are many good Protestants and many bad Catholics. However, the faithful Catholic possesses all of the necessary means to attain salvation, if he so chooses.

 

[sparkle]

Everyone’s responses to this interesting question is fantastic.

I really don’t know why God has allowed all the Protestant Denominations to flouish so, other than because there’s all different types of people in the world. Some read, some don’t, some want all “feeling” and a big “emotional high” when it comes to God, others don’t need that.

I really have found that the most intelligent people I have met are always Catholic!

P.S. It is very hard to even converse sometimes with alot of stubborn Protestants who seem like they never will even try to be open and hear what you have to say about Catholicism. Guess it means, their churches and entire belief system would be threatened and have no basis! So they don’t want to “upset the apple cart”-------sad isn’t it?

 

[petra]

PaulAckermann:

With all do respects, you are comparing the best of the Protestants to the worst of Catholic. The best of your Protestants would be the evangelicals. But within the Protestantism, the evangelicals are only a small minority. There are mainline denominations, those who are members of the United Council of Christian Churches, who are more concerned about the social gospel, gay rights, or feminism than about a relationship with God.

This is true. My reference point was based on my own previous experience in Evangelical Protestantism. I don’t see liberal denominations as being successful at all, nor enjoying God’s blessing. But I believe Evangelical churches do, for the reasons I indicated. Thanks for the correction.

I’m not sure to what extent legalism permeates Catholicism. I’m a fairly new Catholic and much of my exposure to other Catholics has been on this forum. I have seen a prevailing view that it is extremely easy to fall out of God’s saving grace. Based on what I read in the scriptures, this is contrary to the Spirit of Christ, and I think this is a big reason God continues to bless Christ-centered Protestant churches.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

“Success” depends on how it’s defined and measured and who is interpreting the data.

I think Protestantism has been splintering itself to death since it’s appearance in the 16th century. Example: The Lutheran Church that Luther started does not exist, and has been replaced by many others. Calvin’s church the same. And the beat goes on. The “Reformers” reformed nothing. The fastest growing segment of new churches are indepenedent of the “mainline” Protestant groups and have no ties whatsoever to historic Christianity (Newsweek, April 16, 2001). They’ve taken Sola Scriptura further than Luther ever dreamed.

Please – no fellowshipping at the Mass. Fellowship in the parish hall or outside the Church if you must. At Mass, the focus should be on the Sacrifice being offered on the altar, not on each other. The Catholic Church isn’t Protestant. Protestants fellowship, sing songs, pray, and listen to sermons. Catholics have been offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for the last 2,000 years and will offer it until the end of time.

Peace be with all who post at Catholic Answers.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

JMJ Jay

Jay, The thing you have to remember is who is in charge? I believe it is the Holy Spirit. We are where we are because that is where God wants us for the moment. We are all on a journey towards the kingdom of heaven as christians.Yes protestants fellowship,sing,pray, and listen to sermons. Dont you also do the same in the RCC. Obidience to Gods Word is better than any sacrifice we can offer.

 

[Tanais]

I believe one reason it has been so successful is because it appeals to the overall desire to be unlatched of authority. Of all the things ever contested in history, authority is by far the most prevalent. In the Bible there is world of examples. The whole Fall is about rejecting the authority of God. The overall human condition seems to be an antagonism towards authority, especially that of one person telling another what is right. Protestants have scripture, which is not a human and can be reall interpreted in light of the reader’s beliefs. the Church is a living breathing organism which constantly makes demands of your will and intellect that are very clear and cannot be misconstrued by any sane individual, however the Bible can be virtually read any way you want. It gives you the self autonomy virtually all humans are tempted of. All sin can be traced back to the rejection of authority, pride of one’s self as their own authority, their own “pope” if you will.

 

[dredgtone]

Did God put a stop to Hitler? No. Why would God put a stop to Protestants. God doesn’t put a stop to anything, its all on us.

 

[Pax]

SPOKENWORD:

Obidience to Gods Word is better than any sacrifice we can offer.

This statement separates obedience to God’s Word from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This is not logical or true.

The old testament has a wonderful prophecy in Malachai 1:11 where it says, “For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.”

There is only one pure offering and that is Jesus Christ crucified. This prophecy of scripture describes the on going sacrifice of the mass from the rising of the sun to its setting. This is a the divine sacrifice represented everyday in the Catholic mass. Not only is the sacrifice offered in obedience but it is the most sublime and pure sacrifice of Jesus, Himself.

 

[walter]

Pax:

This statement separates obedience to God’s Word from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This is not logical or true.

The old testament has a wonderful prophecy in Malachai 1:11 where it says, “For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.”

There is only one pure offering and that is Jesus Christ crucified. This prophecy of scripture describes the on going sacrifice of the mass from the rising of the sun to its setting. This is a the divine sacrifice represented everyday in the Catholic mass. Not only is the sacrifice offered in obedience but it is the most sublime and pure sacrifice of Jesus, Himself.

I agree with you here - the statement from SPOKENWORD sounds like a scripture only one.
The word of God is the Living one - Jesus (offered in the mass) - not just the written one.
walter.

 

[Count_Chocula]

To answer the question in two words rather than paragraphs of text.

Free will.