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minion
Guest
I agree. This is one of the top questions I have for God. My only hopes cling on Christ’s promise:
“Behold, I make all things new.” -Revelation 21:5
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“Behold, I make all things new.” -Revelation 21:5
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TimothyH
Guest
This is so, so important.
God established the natural order of creation in Genesis. In the first creation account, God gives creation form - night and day, heaven and earth, sea and land. Then God fills the form, but he does so in a very specific order - fish first, then birds, land animals such as cattle next, and then at the top of creation man. The order of creation is important, because it teaches us the natural order of creation. The lower orders serve the higher orders and the higher orders are to minister to the lower orders, protecting them and caring for them.
The same idea is communicated in the second creation account in the way in which God allows things to be named. We get our identity and purpose from the one who names us. Man names the beasts, but man get’s his name from God. This shows the natural order of creation.
God also said: See, I give you every seed-bearing plant on all the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food; and to all the wild animals, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the earth, I give all the green plants for food. And so it happened. (Genesis 1:29:20)
The plants serve man and the animals, and were to be food for the plants and animals. This is the natural order of creation. The literal sense of scripture is that there were no carnivores, but whether that is born out in actual fact is not the point. The Bible isn’t a history or science book but was written for the sake of salvation. It wasn’t written for the sake of historical or scientific accuracy, but for salvation.
The literal sense is that there were no carnivors, but the spiritual sense of these stories is God’s communication to us about the natural order of creation - where we get our identity and purpose, who we are to serve, the purpose of creation as God’s gift to man and our responsiblity to care for it and minister to it as a gift from God.
By the time of Noah however, the entire world had become corrupt - incest, murder, homosexuality, cannibalism, child sacrifice - and so God wiped the whole thing out. After the flood, God begins to set the order of creation aright. He begins the work of setting order in creation back to where it should be. Genesis 9 - the covenant with Noah after the flood - reads like a third creation account.
For in the image of God have human beings been made.
Be fertile, then, and multiply; abound on earth and subdue it.
(Genesis 9:6-7)
This is almost a verbatim copy of Genesis 1. It is a third creation after the flood, but God doesn’t perfect the order of creation yet. God gives man something provisional, something for the time-being, something man can deal with for now.
Fear and dread of you shall come upon all the animals of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon all the creatures that move about on the ground and all the fishes of the sea; into your power they are delivered. Any living creature that moves about shall be yours to eat; I give them all to you as I did the green plants. Only meat with its lifeblood still in it you shall not eat. (Genesis 9:2-3)
God indicates the correct order of creation by allowing man to eat meat. It shows that creation serves man and that man should care for creation. It also shows that man serves God and that God cares for man. It is reestablishment of the proper order of creation - a new Genesis - but it is provisional, until Jesus was to come. Jesus came to complete the work of re-creation, the work of rightly ordering creation.
This is exactly, 100%, perfectly right. Jesus makes all things new.
Jesus completes the new creation, rightly ordering things. We now eat the flesh of the Son of God, and drink his blood. That’ who we serve - Jesus - and who we get our identity from. It is our spiritual food, and the real story behind why God allowed man to eat meat, because it pointed forward to Christ’s flesh and blood as our true food.
All the way back in Genesis 1 and Genesis 9, God is pointing forward to the Eucharist. It’s amazing.
-Tim-
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minichibi
Guest
No, that was a genuine question. Were I judging God I wouldn’t be posting in this forum. My purpose here is faith questioning and faith building, and who is more apt to answer these qestions than the faithful to God? There is a difference between faith and fideism, I have accepted the existence of God or Gods, but I can’t be faithful to a God or a doctrine blindly. Please note that I’m probably a step behind you, you already accept Yahweh/Jesus as God, I still do not.
At least while Christian/Jewish doctrines still don’t make much sense to me, sorry.
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minichibi
Guest
That would be a very god explanation, except fossil records contradict all that, and nature itself is clearly indifferent to human life, there is nothing that points to a world made FOR the human species, a human-centered world, or a human-centered universe.This is so, so important.
God established the natural order of creation in Genesis. In the first creation account, God gives creation form - night and day, heaven and earth, sea and land. Then God fills the form, but he does so in a very specific order - fish first, then birds, land animals such as cattle next, and then at the top of creation man. The order of creation is important, because it teaches us the natural order of creation. The lower orders serve the higher orders and the higher orders are to minister to the lower orders, protecting them and caring for them.
The same idea is communicated in the second creation account in the way in which God allows things to be named. We get our identity and purpose from the one who names us. Man names the beasts, but man get’s his name from God. This shows the natural order of creation.
God also said: See, I give you every seed-bearing plant on all the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food; and to all the wild animals, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the earth, I give all the green plants for food. And so it happened. (Genesis 1:29:20)
The plants serve man and the animals, and were to be food for the plants and animals. This is the natural order of creation. The literal sense of scripture is that there were no carnivores, but whether that is born out in actual fact is not the point. The Bible isn’t a history or science book but was written for the sake of salvation. It wasn’t written for the sake of historical or scientific accuracy, but for salvation.
The literal sense is that there were no carnivors, but the spiritual sense of these stories is God’s communication to us about the natural order of creation - where we get our identity and purpose, who we are to serve, the purpose of creation as God’s gift to man and our responsiblity to care for it and minister to it as a gift from God.
By the time of Noah however, the entire world had become corrupt - incest, murder, homosexuality, cannibalism, child sacrifice - and so God wiped the whole thing out. After the flood, God begins to set the order of creation aright. He begins the work of setting order in creation back to where it should be. Genesis 9 - the covenant with Noah after the flood - reads like a third creation account.
For in the image of God have human beings been made.
Be fertile, then, and multiply; abound on earth and subdue it.
(Genesis 9:6-7)
This is almost a verbatim copy of Genesis 1. It is a third creation after the flood, but God doesn’t perfect the order of creation yet. God gives man something provisional, something for the time-being, something man can deal with for now.
Fear and dread of you shall come upon all the animals of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon all the creatures that move about on the ground and all the fishes of the sea; into your power they are delivered. Any living creature that moves about shall be yours to eat; I give them all to you as I did the green plants. Only meat with its lifeblood still in it you shall not eat. (Genesis 9:2-3)
God indicates the correct order of creation by allowing man to eat meat. It shows that creation serves man and that man should care for creation. It also shows that man serves God and that God cares for man. It is reestablishment of the proper order of creation - a new Genesis - but it is provisional, until Jesus was to come. Jesus came to complete the work of re-creation, the work of rightly ordering creation.
This is exactly, 100%, perfectly right. Jesus makes all things new.
Jesus completes the new creation, rightly ordering things. We now eat the flesh of the Son of God, and drink his blood. That’ who we serve - Jesus - and who we get our identity from. It is our spiritual food, and the real story behind why God allowed man to eat meat, because it pointed forward to Christ’s flesh and blood as our true food.
All the way back in Genesis 1 and Genesis 9, God is pointing forward to the Eucharist. It’s amazing.
-Tim-
We are clearly one more species in a tiny little insignificant world.
If the plants and trees were created as food, then how come some of them even have self-defense mechanisms? Why are some plants poisonous if they are there “just for food”?
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migueltojose
Guest
The facts appear to support the Biblical account. We eat the plants and animals as needed. As provided by God. We are at the top of the food chain. Bless us O Lord, for these Thy gifts, which we receive from Thy bount, through Christ our Lord. (Born of the father before all ages, through him all things were made).
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Jerry_Westerby
Guest
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TimothyH
Guest
I didn’t say that plants were “Just for food.”
That wasn’t in my post. That’s not what I said nor did I even infer it.
I said that plants are for food but I did not say that they are just for food.
You are arguing with something I didn’t say.
-Tim-
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TimothyH
Guest
Look at the verse right after God gives Noah animals to eat.
Any living creature that moves about shall be yours to eat; I give them all to you as I did the green plants. Only meat with its lifeblood still in it you shall not eat. (Genesis 9:3-4)
God goes on to tell the Israelites that they must not consume blood because the “Life of every creature is in the blood.”
*For the life of every creature is the blood of it; therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off. (Leviticus 17:14)
Only be sure that you do not eat the blood; for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the life with the flesh. You shall not eat it; you shall pour it out upon the earth like water. (Deuteronomy 12:23-24)*
God commanded that the Israelites not consume the blood of animals because the “Life is in the blood” and he did not want them to live the life of animals. God want’s man to live the divine life of Christ, so we drink Christ’s blood and eat his flesh.
But God gives Noah something provisional. God starts mankind off with animal flesh, but no blood yet. Later on man would drink blood, but not the blood of animals, but the blood of Christ, and would eat Christ’s flesh, because he want’s us to live the life of Christ.
*Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. (John 6:53)
…the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. (John 6:57)*
-Tim-
-Tim-
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Jerry_Westerby
Guest
yeah, I should have stayed away.
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minichibi
Guest
You are right, Timothy, I’m sorry, my bad.
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ReapReason
Guest
Do you eat animals.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
In short, God designed the universe in such a way that selfishness will ultimately be destructive and generosity and healthy self-interest will prevail.
The reasons for different species are to many to speculate, but I would say there is a strong sense of survival, individualism and competition which can be very healthy and because we are blessed to have so much life in our midst we are always reminded of our roles and our gifts.
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